Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub?

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[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Because most people on that sub think that wanting the gay and trans community to go their separate ways is "hateful".

The majority of people on that sub are either neoliberals or SJWs. They believe in transgenderism. They attack anyone with right wing or even centre-right viewpoints. They attack religious people, even religious people who support and defend gay rights. They support drag queen story hour. They support cancel culture. It doesn't surprise me at all that most people on this sub hate who they consider "transphobic".

EDIT: Can I see the poll, by the way?

[–]fuck_reddit 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Yep, it amazes me how they try to pretend to be all "uwu we love and accept evweeone" but then get vicious and vitriolic whenever summon suggests gay people can be not left-wing or religious... so wild...

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Because these people have been brainwashed by the educational system and by the media into believing that right wing viewpoints and religion are incompatible with homosexuality. Yes, homophobia exists among the right and among the religious. But there are homophobic atheists and homophobic leftists out there. The Soviet Union was atheist and leftist, and male homosexuality there was illegal with up to 5 years imprisonment or hard labour for men who have consensual sex with each other in private. Besides, there are right wing people and religious people who support gay rights. Yes, those people are usually outliers, but they do exist.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Stalinism recriminalized homosexuality. To be fair, the Soviet Union was the first country to decriminalize it under Lenin (they even had openly gay commissars in the 20s), along with abortion. Stalinism is so antithetical to the original Russian Revolution, he eventually murdered nearly all of the original Bolsheviks, and reversed many of their progressive ideas. There is a reason they call Stalinism "Red Fascism". To equate these crimes with the left neglects this complexity. Stalin's "innovation" of "socialism in one country" is just nationalism, a cardinal feature of fascism (a right-wing tendency). A Left Opposition existed under Trotsky (co-leader of the Russian Revolution with Lenin), who was murdered by Stalin's agent in Mexico in 1940. The myth that Stalinism is Communism served both Stalin and the West.

[–]fuck_reddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think technically the Napoleonic code made homosexuality legal. Switzerland adopted the Napoleonic Code and was never conquered afterwards, so Switzerland decriminalized homosexuality in the early 1800s. Also lol Stalin wasn't a fascist, he simply faced the paradox of communism: force it on people or else face the inevitable collapse. Lenin killed millions to force communism on people. It isn't like Stalin is the only bad guy.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Homosexuality as a term was coined in the 1860s in German and the 1890s in English. Prior to that there were only prohibitions on sodomy, not concepts of types of people.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Stalin criminalised homosexuality because

a) he wanted to increase the birth rate, and

b) most of the gay people who had power were more loyal to Trotsky than they were to Stalin. Stalin did not tolerate whatever he considered dissent.

The guy was still a communist who wanted to spread it. Yes, there were fascist countries like Spain and Portugal that criminalised homosexuality, but homosexuality wasn't criminalised under Fascist Italy nor Fascist Argentina. Point is, homophobia is not exclusively right wing.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I hadn't heard Fascist Italy was ok with homosexuals. A google search seems to come up with examples that it wasn't. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22856586

The Right opposes homosexuality because it weakens the military strength of the nation, and undermines the family. The Left opposed homosexuality, because it lowers wages in a family wage context (2 breadwinners with no dependents can afford to work for less than 1 breadwinner with multiple dependents, after the struggle to get women and children out of the labor force).

Italian Fascist unsigned editorial quote: "The deviant male was above all a bourgeois, egoistic and unpatriotic as well as scarcely virile (because he was unfit or reluctant to repeatedly impregnate the female); the deviant female was the too 'modern' woman, Americanized, independent and masculinized. The social damages provoked by these two converging deviants were most serious: a widespread and 'excessive loosening of family hierarchical relations, a decline in the main of that robust virility that fascism, with much love and perseverance, pursues in other ways".

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Fascist Italy was not okay with homosexuality. I wasn't disputing that. But homosexuality has been legal in Italy nationwide since 1890, so at least gay people had some level of privacy under Mussolini, even though he was homophobic. But you are right that right wing homophobia sees homosexuality as a weakness. My point still stands that homophobia exists on the left as well.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I agree, but the reasons are different. In the case of Stalinists and their sympathizers, I think it is for the same reasons as the Right. Stalin was forced into nationalism to build a country after the world revolution did not materialize. He needed mothers and soldiers. That is the economic underpinning of the counter-revolution he represents. But there is also the issue of supply and demand in the labor force, and it is undeniable, that with a family wage convention, where women stay home with the kids, homosexuality puts a downward pressure on wages, and builds resentment. This is most often articulated by examples of gay men spearheading gentrification. I do not think it is a coincidence that gay liberation succeeded as women moved in mass into the workforce, and a two person income per household became the norm. (And also, the draft was deactivated the same year homosexuality was removed from the DSM - also not a coincidence).

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The draft should never have been abolished. Keep it in place.

Gay people make up only 5% of the population. I don't think us having the same freedoms and responsibilities as everybody else would hurt. But a lot of people like Stalin and Hitler never seem to understand this.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You go fight the wars then. You're advocating for involuntary labor - aka slavery. And the draft wasn't abolished. I had to register with the Selective Service System in order to qualify for student loans. This only applies to males, which is my point. Masculinity is defined by the prerequisite traits required for militarism. That is economic underpinning of gender (along with motherhood and reproduction).

You don't have to look to Stalin or Hilter for homosexual persecution. They had that down right here in the good ol' USA.