The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries.

submitted by [deleted] from (becoming-radfem.tumblr.com)

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]ekitten 41 insightful - 3 fun41 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

I wish the statistics of people uncomfortable around LGBTQ were broken down to see which letter(s) they're uncomfortable with. We know which.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I strongly disagree. I'm from a country where acceptance is low and I believe it's dropping (especially among younger people) and the LGB is just as looked down upon. It's not just trans who created Pride and go around behaving entitled and inappropriately.

And if the LGB keeps pointing fingers at the T for their mistakes instead of owning up and fixing them, then acceptance is going to drop less. Even people like me who ARE homosexual are quickly becoming very intolerant and are super close to becomign what you guys would call "homophobic." Trans people aren't even my main concern as a homosexual because it's irrelvant, I'm more pissed that a bunch of perverts and attention seekers are trying to represent me, and it's making me feel very guilty and disgusted with myself because I'm starting to believe that I'm a narcissistic pervert too, if every other homosexual male I see acts that way.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights. The goal of gay liberation should be desublimation. That happens by ennobling same sex love. There is the question of why gay people aren't attracted to the opposite sex, but I think that has to do with an incompatibility with the hetero script - for myriad reasons. It's easy to see this with lesbians, who are very often confident strong women who do not want to be dominated by a male. There are likely many routes to exclusive same sex desire, but there are also salient trends, and gender nonconformity tends to be a major one, which is why trans ideology is mixed up with us in the first place, even though they are something different entirely. There is a difference between rejecting aspects of one's sex's stereotypes, and trying to ape the other's.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights.

literally what No it isn't. It's not universal, it's definitely not prevalent in a lot of animal species and it's more common in some places of the world than others. It's quite literally environment based; current evidence suggests this.

"Straights" (Calling them a condescending term is not going to help your case) have nothing to do with it. The current reason so many people are against homosexuality was caused by LGBT. Most anti gay bullying comes from the LGBT. I have had a very few straight people say anything bad about my sexuality (or appearance) but I have had countless gay, bi, lesbian and trans people relentlessly attack me and humiliate me.

The rest of your post is such bullshit meaningless jargon I can't even decipher it. This reads like a TQ post about "queering the cisnormative heterocapitalist system" or whatever pretentious crap they write on their Twitters to make themselves sound smart.

Homosexuality is not a revolutionary act and never will be.

It's easy to see this with lesbians, who are very often confident strong women who do not want to be dominated by a male.

Way to be misognyist and imply that heterosexual women want to be "dominated." Gross.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Ancient Sparta and Sambia. If it exists anywhere universally, it can't be genetic.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That doesn't prove anything...? I mean, I agree, it's NOT genetic. But it's environmental. Ancient Sparta wasn't exactly a healthy environment, so, using it as a "gotcha" is not a good idea.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It just demonstrates that it is not genetic, regardless of the environment that produced it. So many people rely on genetic arguments, which I find groveling. They say things like "I would never choose this". Well, same sex love is beautiful and good and I would choose it.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Strong disagree there. I have never experienced "same sex love" and I don't believe it exists; I have only experienced same sex sexual attraction which, as far as I can tell (because I've never been heterosexual to compare, obviously) is distorted, disordered, and unhealthy. I have never had a good homosexual experience, I would absolutely not choose this, and I would jump for a change or "cure" in a heartbeat.

So again. Not universal.

[–]reluctant_commenter 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights.

Uh... what? You do realize that psychoanalytic theory is bullshit, right? There is no evidence behind this claim. Not everybody has same-sex attraction. Just like not everybody has opposite-sex attraction.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

Evidence: ancient Sparta, Sambia, etc. Opposite sex desire and same sex desire are not symmetrical. Opposite sex desire is demanded, same sex desire is prohibited. Opposite sex desire traditionally is grounded in woman slavery and male domination. You don't think that in any way at all impacts peoples' behavior, or perception of themselves, or willingness to explore their sexuality in various directions? They were still executing gays rather recently (oh wait, they still do in some countries). I don't trust any science on the matter that doesn't take those facts on the ground seriously.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 12 fun13 insightful - 11 fun14 insightful - 12 fun -  (3 children)

So sexuality can be learned?

I am so sad I did not know that before, then I could just learn heterosexuality and have kids with my possible wife.

And conversion therapies weren't just good enough, they should've be improving them, instead of abandoning. Maybe then we could cure homosexuality (or heterosexuality). In heavens - everyone is pansexual.

or willingness to explore their sexuality in various directions?

Transmen! I am, your yaoi prince, is comming to you!

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Transmen! I am, your yaoi prince, is comming to you!

Omg, thanks for the laugh hahahahaha.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I think it can be learned like language is learned. You cannot choose or change your native language, but you learned it nonetheless, before you even realized you were learning it. Some people can learn a foreign language, but after a certain age, they will always speak it with an accent.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This sounds like what apologets of conversion therapy were saying, almost word to word. If it is learned, then it can be unlearned. And so many inhumane experiments shown that it is not the case. Many homosexual people in homophobic countries would like to "learn straight sexuality, even with an accent", but just can't. It is not how our body works - regardless of how much I will want to have sex with transman or with woman - my body will not answer, I will not be aroused. And same with the rest of homosexual people.

Language is learned by exposure and hearing of words, by repeating and hearing.

If sexuality was learned too, then everyone would be heterosexual, except kids in gay families. But kids in gay families are still often straight, while gays and lesbians are often appearing in straigh families, even in countries where gayness is banned. In USSR, in my childhood, word "homosexual" was nowhere to be found, nowhere shown that man can be with man or woman can be with woman, and yet there still were same amount of homosexual people as there nowadays. So this means it is innate, same as heterosexuality. Only bisexuals can "learn" or "fluid" their sexuality, and even then - not always (majority of bisexuals have heavy leaning towards one sex or another), and there ten times more bisexual people than homosexual people.

[–]Gearbeta 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What you're saying isn't really proof that same sex desire exists in everyone. Like I believe that there are probably more bisexuals(the kinsey .9s and the 5.9s) than we think, but that doesn't mean that everyone is bi or has the potential for same or opposite sex desire. So in the times of Sparta etc, it might have been more accepted for those already bi people to express their bisexuality. And I'm not even talking scientifically here, I'm just talking about what people say about the subject. There's some research and some ignorant people who seem to believe that all women are bi or "don't have a sexuality" as I saw one guy say, but I've met women who were 100% straight. One girl wouldn't even kiss another girl for 200$ because the thought disgusted her so much. "Ugh, it would be like kissing my mom, no offense" was what she said to the proposal. Most men report no sexual attraction to other men. I mean, I think its kind of rude to respond to a person telling you "I'm not attracted to these people" with, "you could be/you are its just society saying otherwise". Its remarkably close to TRA arguments.

Also, NO opposite sex desire is NOT grounded in male domination or female slavery. Straight people's sexual desire is for the opposite sex regardless of how they feel about sex stereotypes. Many straight women don't like being dominated sexually and prefer sex to be more equal between partners yet they are still straight. They go and find men willing to accommodate them, they don't go to having sex with women. And the rare cases of submissive straight dudes I've seen would rather stay celibate than fuck another man.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Every man, straight or gay, strokes a dick, every day. One cannot be alienated from one's own form and there are examples of universal participation in same sex activities in some societies. It cannot be genetic.

The analysis of opposite sex desire is straight out of radical feminism. Read Sheila Jeffreys.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"Fellas... is it gay to stroke your own dick?"

^ Literally your argument. 😆

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Evidence: ancient Sparta, Sambia, etc.

You need to be way more specific than that. Are you saying that literally everyone in Sparta had same-sex attraction? How can you prove this? And can I borrow your time machine?

Opposite sex desire traditionally is grounded in woman slavery and male domination.

Evidence? You got any papers to cite for that claim?

I don't trust any science on the matter that doesn't take those facts on the ground seriously.

If you trusted science, you would probably know better than to use the vocabulary of a debunked and wildly inaccurate theory from the early 1900s. "Sublimated" I can't even remember the last time I heard that word...

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'm articulating arguments from gay liberationists that apparently you've never read. I'm not on meds and apparently you don't read books. Check out The Spiral Path, a Gay Contribution to Human Survival. Don't judge gay liberation by contemporary viewpoints. This debate has been going on since the late 19th century and has an enormous history.