Why is it good that God is basically saying "You can either choose to serve me and be bound to /my/ standards or suffer eternal punishment without end"?

YouAreACuckold · 2022-07-19T01:50:52+00:00

The biggest problem with that line of thinking is that God's not imposing His standards on anyone. Good is objective and absolute.

IridescentAnaconda · 2022-07-19T01:31:11+00:00

You're stuck in Abrahamism.

This is why I am a pagan. I believe in a Supreme Intelligent Principle (or Whatever you want to call It) but It's too large to be concerned with the emotional blackmail characteristic of the local Demiurge. That BS is left up to the lesser gods, but you can choose which ones of those you want to deal with (including the Demiurge, and all his emotional manipulation, if you so choose).

In-the-clouds · 2022-07-19T02:39:13+00:00

[deleted]

In-the-clouds · 2022-07-19T02:48:07+00:00

What does it mean to serve him, since that is the criteria you use to determine if you get out of eternal punishment?

The Bible says this is the summary of the whole law: Do unto others as you would have then do unto you. What's wrong or hard about that? Why would you want it any other way? Selfish people want it another way. But it sounds perfectly fair and reasonable to me. I will treat you as I would want you to treat me. Example: If I see you hungry, I would give you food. And I would want the same from you if I were hungry. That's fair, right?

But man is not fair and is selfish and greedy. Mankind has fallen so low and the thoughts of his heart are continually evil. For the evil, heaven is not the right place. There is nothing unfair about God's judgments. Man get what he wants. If he wants evil, he will receive evil. God does not want that for man, but he will not prevent him from falling away, since he gives man free will.

Your other desire was for a third place. Jesus did say in his Father's house are many mansions. There is not only one place in the spiritual realm. Also, the Bible talks about a third heaven, which means there are at least three heavens. And, there is another place, that is neither heaven or hell, called in the Bible the valley of decision. Perhaps you would go there, until you can decide what you want. But the most blessed are those who choose to follow the Lord Jesus Christ now, before this short earthly life is over.

~~~References ~~~

Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

platonic1 · 2022-07-19T02:49:03+00:00

That is where you are wrong. Hell is a punishment for sin, not unbelief. The reason unbelief is a sin is that it is inexcusable for a rational creature not to realize there is a Creator to submit to, the only position that gives objective meaning to life. Unless you are incapable of thinking rationally, atheism and agnosticism are sins. As for pagans, their gods are morally flawed, unlike Jesus. We instinctively know that God has to be perfect. That is why their religions permit or command evil, like burning widows or sacrificing children. God will forgive those who repent of evil, but will punish those who don’t.

AmericanMuskrat · 2022-07-19T02:54:05+00:00

why can't I just go to a "third" place instead of burning and suffering for eternity.

Catholics believe in such a place, purgatory.

I believe there is wisdom in the bible, but it has been corrupted by man. How could it not. As is, most people who have lived, including some of the most interesting people would be condemned to hell. That makes no sense that heaven would be filled with boring bible thumpers, that would be hellish.

fschmidt · 2022-07-19T03:22:08+00:00

I follow the Old Testament where God doesn't love everyone, and there is no Heaven or Hell.

smokeDrugs · 2022-07-19T03:55:13+00:00

Hell was invented later. It really means something like "eternal separation from God".

iDontShift · 2022-07-19T06:34:11+00:00

"You can either choose to serve me and be bound to /my/ standards or suffer eternal punishment without end"?

neale donald walsch said this, and i like it.. the ten commandments.. are not commandments at all, but ten signs your are becoming enlightened.

you simply would not want to do these things.. why? because you would see, clearly, how each hurts you.

God isn't doing anything, WE ARE . God is more akin to an intelligent matrix, that is perfect in every way, but to as it is all there is nothing can be 'experienced' .. there is nothing to 'experience' .. it just is

we live within that entity, that which is all, which is beyond all description.. and are that which was 'dreamt up' as it appears .. by that which is, and we live within a dream, we are a dream of the ONE.

we forget who we are, but never intended to 'stay lost' .. so the game has a self awakening mechanism.. we are always telling ourselves the truth.. we just don't listen

Because to me that sounds like a form of threat, even though God is benevolent and loves everyone.

control, some folks love control and use whatever means they can find

But how could such be reconciled with him being a loving being?

you can't . it is only when you see your hand in all of it, as participant that you find there is no one to blame, and no one to punish

we are all victims/perps of our own creation. each perpetuates the other until one of them stops

the victims are usually the easiest as they have nothing to lose, perpetrators think they have it all and can't see why they should change

f I certainly don't want to go to Hell but am given some pause about Heaven too (I'll talk about Heaven later), why can't I just go to a "third" place instead of burning and suffering for eternity.

appears to me that hell is used as a tool to create fear which is used to control people

I can agree with God on things like being against abortion or another moral issue, and still go to Hell anyway because it's not necessarily being a drunkard or rapist that gets you into Hell - It is mere unbelief that takes you there.

meh, i think you return to source. those that have done horrible things.. i think their hell exists here an now for the lack of love they feel in their lives.

God has no need for punishment. if God did.. why torture you and not just make you not be?

and if God needed you to be a certain way.. why not make you that way to begin with?

no, the 'god' that needs things is a man lying

yelgy · 2022-07-19T01:25:04+00:00

god is a bitch.

CreditKnifeMan · 2022-07-19T02:55:14+00:00

Because you get a choice.

As noninterventionist as it gets.

Anti-tyranny God.

IMissPorn · 2022-07-19T05:34:06+00:00

It's good for me if I can convince people that doing what I say is the same as doing what god says. Presumably the people who wrote that stuff had the same idea.

Plastickillsyou · 2022-07-19T07:32:22+00:00

Who heard him talk? Did anyone record it?

DirewolfGhost · 2022-07-19T07:40:30+00:00

You can ignore reality, you can't ignore the effects of ignoring reality.

Same deal, fewer fairy tales.

at_finn · 2022-07-19T13:24:12+00:00

Because God didn't say that...people said that. Remember religions are made by men.

Masterblaster · 2022-07-19T19:40:46+00:00

I think you are conflating the control structure of the Church (any church) and divinity itself. To be aligned with God is to be aligned with what is true and good, and this leads to happiness. To deny these things is to create your own hell.

Look at all the insanity around us. Does God really need to punish anyone, or are people perfectly willing to throw away their own dignity and freedom? Aren’t the lies and craziness around us visibly “evil” just by nature of their being irrational and anti-human?

If God is truth and sanity, how could denying Him lead anywhere good?

whatever

MODERATORS