all 21 comments

[–]Cratis 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Meh. Liberty also includes the right not to listen to what every asshole thinks you need to hear. You have the right to say whatever you want, you have no right to have anyone listen to you.

[–]FediNetizen 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The Four Freedoms that make up the core of free speech:

  1. The Right To Speak
  2. The Right Not To Speak
  3. The Right To Listen
  4. The Right Not To Listen

[–]voidgod 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

the right to start drunkenly swinging

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

i gotta read this guys book sometime.

[–]GConly 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

He was one very disillusioned puppy.

Liked the idea of social welfare programs, hated communists after meeting them in Spain.

Nothing kills idealism faster than reality.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It ain't that easy.

[–]Excantare 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How is social welfare communism? I think any society needs some kind of safety net.

[–]sproketboy[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah. Grow into what you actually are. Finally

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I agree with the quote.

But on the flip side also imagine if I go up to someone and say like "You asshat, you're so bad and dumb and no one likes you" and stuff over and over, right in their face. Then say they go inside and shut the door in my face so they can't hear me anymore. Have I been deprived of my liberty by being kept from telling someone else what they don't want to hear? I don't think so.

I think the value of the message is important (facts vs personal attacks) in this equation. And also the ability to say something doesn't mean the ability to say it to one particular person, nor does it demand they listen. Perhaps public figures like representatives are exemptions, as they should be required to listen to their constituents. But most people are not required to listen to everything that is put in front of them, nor should they be.

However people should have the ability to broadcast ideas broadly. However people shouldn't be able to shout fire in a crowded theater. The line between the two is very fuzzy and complex when you try to find exactly where it is.

[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Yes. But the problem is that whites are being genocided through mass immigration and various other means intended to subvert our way of life, and when whites speak up against it they're censored. The fact that we're silenced when we speak up should come as no surprise.

So the context of this quote is rather than your example:

Dictator puts forth policies intended to exterminate a minority in his empire. One from this minority starts asking questions about those policies and the dictator puts him in jail saying "I don't have to listen to this". It's not surprising that the dictator silences those from the minority that speaks up, when he intends on removing them all from the surface of the earth.

In this context it's not that fuzzy nor is it complex.

[–]theLordGodAlmighty 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

go back to 1940s germany plz

[–]72ndGender 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You consider it a Nazi ideology to not want a race to be soft genocided?

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Since you're in favor of white genocide. What's your ethnicity?

[–]sudd3nclar1ty 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

lib•er•ty (lĭb′ər-tē) The condition of being free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor; the condition of being free from oppressive restriction or control by a government or other power.

While it's kinda fun telling people what they don't want to hear sometimes, it is projection of control. I think Orwell is confusing free speech with liberty here.

Free speech is about freedom TO say what you believe. Liberty is about freedom FROM oppression. Trying to control others is the pinch.

Your points about yelling fire in the theater is a good example of limits to free speech. And listening to others is a lot easier if there is something interesting to learn as well.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks.

[–]theLordGodAlmighty 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Say and believe fake shit an throw a fit when people tell you that you're retarded. Got it.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Dismiss everything skeptical people say because I only obey the authorities who aren't trying to exploit me at all. Got it.

[–]72ndGender 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Um, excuse me sir, you said something that wasn't on the pre-approved statement list. This isn't your first time, so I'm gonna have to ask you to leave.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, you mistake me for a sir. I sexually identify as an avocado...