all 33 comments

[–]ActuallyNot 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (29 children)

I saw this headline on the anti-science site natural news. Sound naming convention: Bullshit is natural.

Anyway, so I clicked through to the paper, and read the abstract.

It says in part:

Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020.

Fully vaccinated people do fucking not carry 251 times the viral load. It's people infected with the delta variant that have 251 times the viral load.

[–]StillLessons 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Your own quote doesn't clearly make your point.

"breakthrough Delta variant infection".

Breakthrough cases are defined as cases in fully vaccinated people. Named as such because the virus has "broken through" the protection offered by the vaccine. You are focusing on the fact that these occurred in the presence of the delta variant, which does introduce another variable here - yes, we are talking about a mutated virus - but the word breakthrough does indeed mean that these cases were in fully vaccinated people.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's not true to say that the presence of the delta variant introduces another variable. It is the only variable.

Yes they are looking at breakthrough cases, but that doesn't vary.

[–]StillLessons 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The variable of "breakthrough / non-breakthrough" is binary: either the virus infects a patient who has not been vaccinated, or a person who has been vaccinated. That is very important information. Cases of patients who have been vaccinated and develop covid anyway demonstrate by definition that the vaccine did not prevent spread of the virus to that person. Then, depending on the level of symptoms manifested in a given patient, some of those who contract the virus (even though fully vaccinated) will go on to spread it to others. In other words, some portion of breakthrough cases are still vectors for covid transmission. Given that these new cases come from vaccinated people, there is no reason to believe they cannot infect other vaccinated people. Instead, it is likely that the form of the virus is now adapted to survive and replicate in the presence of the antibodies the vaccine leads the body to create. This is what the Delta variant is. It is an adaptation of the virus that appears to be ready to spread among vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.

The vaccine did not prevent this variant from taking hold, even in countries with very high vaccination rates. You and I have clashed over this multiple times. Covid is a highly adaptable pathogen. Pfizer / Moderna / J&J / etc have not figured out the magic bullet they claim to have done to stop it.

I would go a step further (in alignment with Robert Malone and Geert Vanden Bossche) and say if you create a "vaccine" that doesn't actually eradicate the virus, which the evidence is 100% clear that these therapies do not do, then you are actually creating a pressure on the virus that will only make it worse, as you give it more and more information to adapt around, which natural selection will then translate into a hell bug against which we are even more helpless to fight than Covid was in the first place.

First Do No Harm. The experiment we are engaged in is a wildly dangerous proof of that age-old adage. It never occurs to Fauci et al that perhaps, just perhaps, the "solution" they are so passionately promoting is going to be far worse than the results would have been had they let the virus run its course modified by the collective natural immune systems of humanity without the influence of their "vaccine" fucking around with it.

The lack of consideration of the possibility that the null-hypothesis (in this case, continue to treat the various Covid syndromes post-infection rather than try an absolutely brand new untested gene therapy technique to interfere with it) might yield better results is a tragic weakness in the global science community generally, and in this case, we have the potential to witness a truly terrifying consequence of that failure.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The vaccinated to have much less serious outcomes seven against Delta.

Yes, the viral load implies that they can be infectious even after vaccination with Astrazeneca.

Which doesn't imply that the same is true for the mRNA vaccines that you mention.

[–]pizda 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Yes, but if someone is infected without being vaccinated, they are just that - still having 251 more viral load.

[–]StillLessons 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The quote he cites from the abstract of the study is quite specific. It is talking about viral loads of breakthrough cases. Not of non-breakthrough cases.

[–]pizda 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

And that's what they're willingly omitting.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Are you accusing the study's authors of data manipulation? Are you saying they studied and got useful data from unjabbed people but are withholding that data and thus presenting not the results the study got but instead results they wanted? If so, can you back that accusation, or what ever accusation you are making, up?

[–]pizda 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

My accusation is: The OP has willingly omitted the details of the study, the title is implying everyone who is vaxxed carries higher viral load, which is not what the study is about.

[–]FlippyKing 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I mix up "names" here on SaidIt, are you also the guy who ignored the meaning of "Breakthrough" and how the term only applies to the vaccinated? If so, then: that.

There are reasons why breakthroughs happen, and one of them (a major one if not THE major one) is when the drug (they are still drugs, that's the right term) injected has a problem that will either be due to a problem with the entire batch or due to inconsistencies within the batch, and no I will not get more specific. Go read up on it yourself.

There are also reasons why higher viral loads might be something to not take at face value and assume it is a worst possible scenario. Simple fact of the matter is that as viruses mutate they tend towards less deadly. This is true of all virus but not true of every mutation especially early on. But, a virus that kills its host does not spread as freely as one that does not, so less deadly ones have a more "fit" adaptation for their propagation. Why they have high, and it is entirely possible they have higher, viral loads (and how this is measured accurately is important because it is not always accurate at all) may well be due to the same reason each season's flu vax leaves you more suspectible to the following year's flu.

There are scientists who think vaccines against viruses that mutate quickly and that have an animal reservoir is impossible, and some who think most viruses are always going to fool the vaccines by mutating faster than they can be made. It is analogous to the ever rising costs of pesticides and herbicides and the ever rising amount of crop losses that occurred (at least up until very recently as I've not looked at that data in a few years). These are very profitable strategies for businesses but not for people.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

are you also the guy who ignored the meaning of "Breakthrough" and how the term only applies to the vaccinated?

No, that was this guy:

https://saidit.net/s/news/comments/8b5x/study_shows_fully_vaccinated_people_carry_251/uubd?context=3

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks! I mix everyone up here. That comment was deleted. I'm assuming they figured out he was off base? That an improvement. They pyramid might actually work.

[–]F--K_OFF_JACKASS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

should i get my pigs and chickens vaccinated? what about my milk cow? moooo...

[–]Node 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you read on past that point, you get to:

Interpretation: Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people.

Meaning, the 'vaxed' are superspreaders.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

No, that is not the meaning.

Those with a delta variant infection are superspreaders, even if they're vaccinated with Astrazeneca.

There is no implication that the unvaccinated have a lower viral load. There's no implication that the viral load of delta is not reduced by the mRNA vaccines.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There is no implication that the unvaccinated have a lower viral load.

Additionally, there's no implication that IRS agents or bus drivers have a lower viral load. Same applies to crane operators, underwater welders, and "sex workers".

That's because the study focused on vaxers, as exemplified by their use of the term "breakthrough". This means vaxers that the virus has broken through their supposed immunity.

Is Reddit paying you to spread this disinformation to other sites? Or is it some other entity?

Okay, okay, I realize you can't answer that with this account, and expect payments to continue. But can you think of a reason why you shouldn't be killed as an enemy collaborator? Note that the taliban are not the only people with moral standards.

Even if you're behind seven proxies, there's a new technique (to me, anyway), that apparently can track you back to your real IP.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Additionally, there's no implication that IRS agents or bus drivers have a lower viral load. Same applies to crane operators, underwater welders, and "sex workers".

Right. But there is an implication that the unvaccinated would not have a lower viral load.

In that even though they were looking at breakthrough cases, there was no correlation between neutralizing antibodies at diagnosis and peak viral loads during the course of infection. So extrapolating that to no antibodies at diagnosis, you would also expect no effect on peak viral load.

That's because the study focused on vaxers, as exemplified by their use of the term "breakthrough". This means vaxers that the virus has broken through their supposed immunity.

Yes. The cases were breakthrough cases. And the controls were also vaccinated.

Is Reddit paying you to spread this disinformation to other sites? Or is it some other entity?

I'm not spreading disinformation. Natural News is spreading disinformation. Your statement "Meaning, the 'vaxed' are superspreaders." is disinformation. The truth (if we accept your definition of "superspreader" to mean cases with a high viral load), is that people with the Delta infection are superspreaders.

Even if you're behind seven proxies, there's a new technique (to me, anyway), that apparently can track you back to your real IP.

Wonderful. However the paper does not imply that the vaccinated have a higher viral load than the unvaccinated.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Good points.

Natural News is so dishonest that it earned a place in the s/ShitpostNews list, here

[–]F--K_OFF_JACKASS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]GST893 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

What's a "sound naming convention?"

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's when natural news is in fact natural. Although, to be fair, "news" isn't really valid.

[–]GST893 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

if you're low IQ and don't have common sense. it's in the name.

[–]GST893 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry I don't speak retard.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think you are a moron but I agree with you here that this is misinformation. It takes away from the point that is actually being made which is the vax is "leaky."

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]StillLessons 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    i dont want this life any more, and i dont think anyone is really gonna complain if i leave this rock. fuck this life and fuck everybody. fuck covid. fuck biden. fuck fuck.

    I totally get where you're coming from. The assault on our humanity is constant, intense, and overwhelming. Anyone who hasn't entertained the kind of thinking you're showing here isn't paying attention.

    That said, to remind you what you perhaps already know: your life must be lived according to your ethics. The importance of your life you decide. Whether you live or die is absolutely secondary. What is absolutely primary is how you live, and the only person qualified to judge you on that is you.

    Don't live based on whether your actions are having an effect on people who are drowning in their own deceit. Don't decide how to live your life (including whether to live your life) based on the chaos around us. If you decide to die because they have created hell on earth, then they win. They will have crushed you to the point that your final action is based in the despair they are feeding you.

    No, the best you can do is live better. Not because it's going to lead to a better surroundings but because you desire to offer the universe an example of what a person is capable of. Do it for yourself. Be the person who lives correctly in the world so that you can look in the mirror and say, "At least there's one of me. One is better than zero."

    Ironically, this is the only way the broader world will improve. Not by us trying to change "it", but by us starting to live as examples of what we mean.

    Create your own example of how it should be and live that. Then rest assured that you are doing everything you can to maintain a small point of light in the darkness. It makes more difference than you think.

    Good luck; obviously it's absurdly painful and difficult right now to do what I'm describing. You are not as alone as your fear is telling you. There are many of us fighting precisely the same battle. It's just hard to recognize us amidst the chaos of the terrified masses turning on each other in fear and violence.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    trump said get your vaccine

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      he's always been afraid of germs, washed his hands a lot, didn't shake hands. He might have been smarter than we thought all along.

      [–]iDontShift 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      o no we all gonna die