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[–]StillLessons 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Your own quote doesn't clearly make your point.

"breakthrough Delta variant infection".

Breakthrough cases are defined as cases in fully vaccinated people. Named as such because the virus has "broken through" the protection offered by the vaccine. You are focusing on the fact that these occurred in the presence of the delta variant, which does introduce another variable here - yes, we are talking about a mutated virus - but the word breakthrough does indeed mean that these cases were in fully vaccinated people.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's not true to say that the presence of the delta variant introduces another variable. It is the only variable.

Yes they are looking at breakthrough cases, but that doesn't vary.

[–]StillLessons 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The variable of "breakthrough / non-breakthrough" is binary: either the virus infects a patient who has not been vaccinated, or a person who has been vaccinated. That is very important information. Cases of patients who have been vaccinated and develop covid anyway demonstrate by definition that the vaccine did not prevent spread of the virus to that person. Then, depending on the level of symptoms manifested in a given patient, some of those who contract the virus (even though fully vaccinated) will go on to spread it to others. In other words, some portion of breakthrough cases are still vectors for covid transmission. Given that these new cases come from vaccinated people, there is no reason to believe they cannot infect other vaccinated people. Instead, it is likely that the form of the virus is now adapted to survive and replicate in the presence of the antibodies the vaccine leads the body to create. This is what the Delta variant is. It is an adaptation of the virus that appears to be ready to spread among vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.

The vaccine did not prevent this variant from taking hold, even in countries with very high vaccination rates. You and I have clashed over this multiple times. Covid is a highly adaptable pathogen. Pfizer / Moderna / J&J / etc have not figured out the magic bullet they claim to have done to stop it.

I would go a step further (in alignment with Robert Malone and Geert Vanden Bossche) and say if you create a "vaccine" that doesn't actually eradicate the virus, which the evidence is 100% clear that these therapies do not do, then you are actually creating a pressure on the virus that will only make it worse, as you give it more and more information to adapt around, which natural selection will then translate into a hell bug against which we are even more helpless to fight than Covid was in the first place.

First Do No Harm. The experiment we are engaged in is a wildly dangerous proof of that age-old adage. It never occurs to Fauci et al that perhaps, just perhaps, the "solution" they are so passionately promoting is going to be far worse than the results would have been had they let the virus run its course modified by the collective natural immune systems of humanity without the influence of their "vaccine" fucking around with it.

The lack of consideration of the possibility that the null-hypothesis (in this case, continue to treat the various Covid syndromes post-infection rather than try an absolutely brand new untested gene therapy technique to interfere with it) might yield better results is a tragic weakness in the global science community generally, and in this case, we have the potential to witness a truly terrifying consequence of that failure.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The vaccinated to have much less serious outcomes seven against Delta.

Yes, the viral load implies that they can be infectious even after vaccination with Astrazeneca.

Which doesn't imply that the same is true for the mRNA vaccines that you mention.

[–]pizda 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Yes, but if someone is infected without being vaccinated, they are just that - still having 251 more viral load.

[–]StillLessons 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The quote he cites from the abstract of the study is quite specific. It is talking about viral loads of breakthrough cases. Not of non-breakthrough cases.

[–]pizda 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

And that's what they're willingly omitting.

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Are you accusing the study's authors of data manipulation? Are you saying they studied and got useful data from unjabbed people but are withholding that data and thus presenting not the results the study got but instead results they wanted? If so, can you back that accusation, or what ever accusation you are making, up?

[–]pizda 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

My accusation is: The OP has willingly omitted the details of the study, the title is implying everyone who is vaxxed carries higher viral load, which is not what the study is about.

[–]FlippyKing 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I mix up "names" here on SaidIt, are you also the guy who ignored the meaning of "Breakthrough" and how the term only applies to the vaccinated? If so, then: that.

There are reasons why breakthroughs happen, and one of them (a major one if not THE major one) is when the drug (they are still drugs, that's the right term) injected has a problem that will either be due to a problem with the entire batch or due to inconsistencies within the batch, and no I will not get more specific. Go read up on it yourself.

There are also reasons why higher viral loads might be something to not take at face value and assume it is a worst possible scenario. Simple fact of the matter is that as viruses mutate they tend towards less deadly. This is true of all virus but not true of every mutation especially early on. But, a virus that kills its host does not spread as freely as one that does not, so less deadly ones have a more "fit" adaptation for their propagation. Why they have high, and it is entirely possible they have higher, viral loads (and how this is measured accurately is important because it is not always accurate at all) may well be due to the same reason each season's flu vax leaves you more suspectible to the following year's flu.

There are scientists who think vaccines against viruses that mutate quickly and that have an animal reservoir is impossible, and some who think most viruses are always going to fool the vaccines by mutating faster than they can be made. It is analogous to the ever rising costs of pesticides and herbicides and the ever rising amount of crop losses that occurred (at least up until very recently as I've not looked at that data in a few years). These are very profitable strategies for businesses but not for people.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

are you also the guy who ignored the meaning of "Breakthrough" and how the term only applies to the vaccinated?

No, that was this guy:

https://saidit.net/s/news/comments/8b5x/study_shows_fully_vaccinated_people_carry_251/uubd?context=3

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks! I mix everyone up here. That comment was deleted. I'm assuming they figured out he was off base? That an improvement. They pyramid might actually work.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You've been banned from participating in /s/GCdebatesQT

Must be all the hormones they're on. I blame you for leading me over to that pit of sex weirdos. 🤣

[–]F--K_OFF_JACKASS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

should i get my pigs and chickens vaccinated? what about my milk cow? moooo...