Nietzsche is the right wing Marx

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

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[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Deleuze has a very selective reading of Nietzsche

That's how philosophy works, otherwise there wouldn't be anything new.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You make a valid point here, but everything I said earlier remains true.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So yeah, Nietzsche isn't a systematic philosopher, so you don't have a general framework that you can apply to various stuff - unlike Aristotelianism, idealism and so on - so you either borrow stuff from him and use them for your own thing, or you plainly repeat what Nietzsche was saying - which is something no university is going to give you a tenure for. Deluze took the nihilist ontology and the concept of vital force, so I would say it's pretty legit, even if I don't agree with the conclusions.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

What exactly are you referring to? It is true that Deleuze has borrowed certain elements from Nietzsche. That cannot be doubted. However, it is similarly obvious that Deleuze is in many ways the complete antithesis of Nietzsche. These two thinkers are absolutely nothing alike, and as I noted earlier, Nietzsche despised leftists and egalitarians because their beliefs conflicted with his worldview on more or less every point.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Let's put this way: which are in your opinion the truly Nietzschean philosophers?

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What are your criteria for that? I have a pretty good idea of what I would consider a Nietzschean worldview, but I am not sure if our definitions match up.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

It's not about my definition, it's about philosophy. My point is that Nietzsche wasn't a systematic philosopher, nihilism is not a method. One can personally embrace Nietzschean nihilism of course, but if he is going to write something new he will necessarily need to extrapolate some parts, probably discarding the others, and build upon that. I was asking you which philosopher is actually Nietzschean because I hold as true that only Nietzsche was truly Nietzschean. But nonetheless, his work was indeed used to build postmodernism, and so is incorrect to say that

You cant take Nietzschean philosophy and turn it into a cult that attracts every lower human type who openly represents the hatred and destruction of the West and its people while championing every non Western people which is basically what leftist socialism has become

because is factually true the opposite.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Nietzsche was not a nihilist, he was an anti-nihilist thinker. Nietzsche hoped that Europe could overcome nihilism through a focus on life, immanence, self-overcoming and a drive to power and growth. His ideal was the Overman, characterised by independence, nobility, self-sufficiency, virtue and inner strength. This is the complete antithesis of the Last Man ideal of the modern left. If you are looking for people who pursued the Overman ideal, making lesser or greater references to Nietzsche, you could look at Ernst Junger as one example. Germany had a massive number of Nietzsche-inspired Rightists, but unfortunately as I am not an expert on German philosophy I cannot list them all. It is sufficient to say that Nietzsche was a highly influential figure that inspired the vast majority of German neopagans, a considerable number of nationalists and aristocrats, and most of the modernist Right.

I still think that you are wrong to assert that Nietzsche's work is the foundation of modern leftist, egalitarian ideology based on resentment, given that Nietzsche defined his worldview against precisely that type of ideology and considered it to be his chief enemy. That certain postmodernists have taken inspiration from a small part of Nietzsche's work does not mean that the modern left is based on Nietzschean thought.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fascism was deeply Nietzschean.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That certain postmodernists have taken inspiration from a small part of Nietzsche's work does not mean that the modern left is based on Nietzschean thought.

That's a factual truth, i went as far a linking the Wikipedia page. You don't have to believe to me as a person, just read the article or the books.

you could look at Ernst Junger as one example. Germany had a massive number of Nietzsche-inspired Rightists, but unfortunately as I am not an expert on German philosophy I cannot list them all. It is sufficient to say that Nietzsche was a highly influential figure that inspired the vast majority of German neopagans, a considerable number of nationalists and aristocrats, and most of the modernist Right.

None of them was a philosopher. Junger was a novel writer who wrote a few essays. He never got a tenure, precisely because he wasn't saying anything new or particularly interesting, unlike Schmitt, Heidegger o Deleuze. No one study Junger in a philosophy class - unlike Schmitt, Heidegger o Deleuze. He is studied in literature classes.

[–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's a factual truth, i went as far a linking the Wikipedia page. You don't have to believe to me as a person, just read the article or the books.

Linking the Wikipedia page of Gilles Deleuze does not at all imply that the modern left is Nietzschean. Even Deleuze himself is not a Nietzschean. Do you consider Muslims to be Christians too, since they acknowledge Jesus as a prophet?

None of them was a philosopher. Junger was a novel writer who wrote a few essays.

That's an extremely uncharitable way to describe Junger.

He never got a tenure, precisely because he wasn't saying anything new or particularly interesting, unlike Schmitt, Heidegger o Deleuze. No one study Junger in a philosophy class - unlike Schmitt, Heidegger o Deleuze. He is studied in literature classes.

I do not consider university academics to be the final arbiters on what is and is not philosophy.