Why are leftists obsessed with asserting that solidly leftist politicians are really "center right at best"?

submitted by [deleted] from self.debatealtright

The far left is constantly insisting that politicians like Bernie Sanders, AOC, or Justin Trudeau are really "center-right". Or that America really has TWO right-wing parties. Why is this?

Is there a kernel of truth to this? I suppose you could say that some national Democrats push for relatively low tax rates on the wealthy that could be seen as right wing, compared to many European countries.

But on the other hand, the left has resoundingly won the culture war of the last 20 years or so. And on the economic front, more and more politicians and voters are embracing socialism (the Bernie phenomenon). So if any sort of course correction needed to take place in the mind of leftists, that should of been it. But no, they keep fighting to assert that American and North American minds are warped to see center right figures as left. I don't buy it. Seems like a pathetic manipulation tactic.

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[–]NeoRail 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In America more so than anywhere else when people talk about politics they are actually talking about money, which means that the insane social politics are completely glossed over. The "right" is defined as the side which helps rich ghouls destroy the country for profit and the "left" is presumably made up of the glorious Marxist people's revolutionary front of grifters. Traditional right wing politics do not figure at all into this worldview.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Because they are, Bernie is just an FDRite capitalist and he's miles more populist than anyone else in the democrat party.

All the parties are libertine on social policy and capitalist on economic policy, also known as liberalism or the worst of all worlds.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

FDR's economic policies were inspired by fascist Italy. Look up Rexford Tugwell.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

So what? They were measures put in place by the oligarchy to release pressure. If you simply google 'FDR save capitalism' you find endless stuff about how his goal and accomplishment was to save capitalism.

Actual fascists and populists saw right through the New Deal at the time. They were half measures meant solely to pacify the population.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The Nazi press enthusiastically hailed the early New Deal measures:

America, like the Reich, had decisively broken with the "uninhibited frenzy of market speculation." The Nazi Party newspaper, the Völkischer Beobachter, "stressed 'Roosevelt's adoption of National Socialist strains of thought in his economic and social policies,' praising the president's style of leadership as being compatible with Hitler's own dictatorial Führerprinzip" (p. 190).

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I know and it changes nothing that the Germans were diplomatic. I'm referring to those inside America who opposed capitalism like Huey Long, Father Coughlin, Francis Parker Yockey etc. not the Third Reich that were trying to not be sanctioned to death and have their cities firebombed.

There's also this Goebbels interview with an American

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Famously as well that's the interview where the photo was taken of goebbels allegedly scowling after having just being told the person photographing him was Jewish. Total bullshit of course he has the same stern expression during the entire interview as he does in the photo but people still share it on Facebook or quora 80 years later as if it's true.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Liberals are the living refutation of the Cartesian axiom 'I think, therefore I am.' Liberals do not think, yet they are.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I can't find the full interview anymore sadly though. Blackpill of the day for me.

Whitepill of the day, guess the full clip is only the part in that video. I thought it would be longer.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

yeah USA, USSR, Nazi Germany, all realized it was a good idea. They fought anyway, despite having the same political and economic systems. It was a phony war.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

despite having the same political and economic systems

Nonsense.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sutton's next three published books (Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, Wall Street and FDR and Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler) detailed Wall Street's involvement in the Bolshevik Revolution to destroy Russia as an economic competitor and turn it into "a captive market and a technical colony to be exploited by a few high-powered American financiers and the corporations under their control"[9] as well as its decisive contributions to the rise of Adolf Hitler and Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whose policies he assessed as being essentially the same "corporate socialism," planned by the big corporations.[10] Sutton concluded that it was all part of the economic power elites' "long-range program of nurturing collectivism"[7] and fostering "corporate socialism" in order to ensure "monopoly acquisition of wealth" because it "would fade away if it were exposed to the activity of a free market."[11]

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe wars have nothing to do with internal policy? Even if it was true their governments and economies were identical (they weren't), that would have literally no bearing on whether they would go to war or not.

A state cares about its interests, not whether or not its enemies have a similar internal organisation. They go to war due to conflicting interests, not conflicting ideology.

[–]UserAetheria 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're not exactly wrong. A lot of the democratic politicians are less radical than typical SJW leftists that spout this stuff.

As for why, I believe its believe its because they want to manipulate people into thinking that their radical leftist opinions is the 'normal' or only slightly toward 'the left'. Its the same reason why any nationalist or white advocate is labelled as 'far right'. They want to manipulate people into believing that those beliefs are not normal while their own are.

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're activists of a political extreme, so they frame their message this way to manipulate people from what were formerly very reasonable positions. It's gaslighting.

[–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They can't handle the truth. It doesn't match up to their feelings.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

the USA has been moving right politicially, since women got the right to vote ironically. So it's all compared to the past. We had broad concensus among dems to support the new deal but now can't get an infrastructure bill due to conservadems. I know it seems like dems are far left cuz of social issues and canceling people but that shit doesn't matter, only the economy, and they're far right on that, only supporting the rich. Because that is who bribes them.

[–]chadwickofwv 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Um, no. Politics have been moving towards communism since women were given their franchise without the duties it cost men.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish

[–]FriedrichLudwig 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A mixture of being completely detached from reality due to exclusively spending time in and being informed by their far-left spheres, being such extremists that guys like them honestly don't satisfy their insane expectations (see the complaints about Biden being "an old white guy"), and also because the establishment wants the left vs right discourse to be exclusively about economics, so these lunatics think any kind of capitalism=right-wing. I have met leftists that unironically believe "right-wingers" control politics and the media, and there is a "rising tide of nationalism" in Europe that needs to be curbed. A lot of communists believe we live in a conservative society because private mega-corporations have a lot of power.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of communists believe we live in a conservative society because private mega-corporations have a lot of power.

and that is true

[–]DisgustResponse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

'Left' and 'right' mean different things to them than they do to us.

[–]AidsVictim69 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Leftists (Marxists, Leninists, Maoists) and liberals (Sanders, AOC, Trudeau etc) aren't the same thing. Leftists don't really have any substantial power in the US although it's true if you were to compare liberal and modern leftist social policy it would like incredibly similar (the main reason I reject modern Leftism).

When leftists describe the US as having two right wing parties they're primarily talking about economic-material conditions and/or the military-police state (or else they're just delusional about social policy).

Every major politician in the US is pro capitalist including people like Sanders - they mostly just want an expansion of the welfare state while keeping the primary mode of economic organization (capitalism) in place. Mainstream leftists in the US are basically just social democrats or maybe nostalgic for the heydays of unions and social cohesion they associate with pre Reagan America.