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[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

The welfare state is well established because Europeans don't have the crippling financial burden of paying for their own defense. They have an idiot to do it for them. We could easily have free college for everyone, pay off the whole country's debts, have a border wall 100 feet tall, and a pony - for what it takes to defend Europe. And in return we get their scorn and open contempt.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Honestly mate, Americans invaded my country, we are still not allowed to have nuclear weapons and, while having the largest army in Europe numerically, we are forced to have American bases all over the country. If you to withdraw, you have my blessings.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

We tried, man...we tried. Trump ordered our troops out. Unfortunately he was overruled by our real rulers in the Pentagon. He tried to withdraw from Afghanistan and Syria too, and had his orders ignored there, too. Afghanistan had to be pure spite, as we finally did it so that Biden could get the credit for ending the war instead of Trump.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm Italian. I'm asking for a withdrawal from Italy. Invasion took place in 1944.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Oh, the other Axis power. Sure, troops out of there, too. Leave you Europeans and watch the fun as you have to fund your own defense, and to do it you have to cut your oh-so-special welfare state. The screaming would be exquisite. And the delicious irony that it was because of your own shitheadedness and ingratitude for 80 years of peace. Oh, it would be glorious.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Mhhh we have over 2 million soldiers if I recall correctly. We don't have that much projection power, but we have a very strong defensive army. Anyway yeah let's see.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What?! No. Italian army is 350,000. Why it exists, I have no idea. Its most famous characteristic is its incompetence. “gl’italiani non si battono”

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You are right, i totally forgot the actual number. we're still the biggest EU army. https://imgur.com/a/PKTUHte

Btw, i can't tell if you know italian or nay, but the meaning of that phrase is "you can't win over italians", which is strange given the contex.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But which meaning? You can't beat Italians, or you can't make friends with Italians?

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Lol I didn't realize that there was a double meaning. It's "you can't beat Italians"

[–]oakenwheels 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Why the need for defense? What happened to nuclear deterrence?

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

In the tiny countries of Europe, exploding nukes to repel an invading army is less than ideal.

[–]oakenwheels 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But the thing with deterrence is the threat of it is enough to keep the enemy army out of your country. They know you have nukes they don't invade. Otherwise you bomb them with nukes. You know, the Cold War thing?

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Depends on the situation, but in many cases they would be nuking themselves and their other neighbors too. Not every country would be happy about being showered with your radioactive fallout, just because you were angry with a different neighbor.

You can't just "use nukes" whenever you want.

[–]oakenwheels 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think the main argument for the presence of US forces in EU is threat from Russia and the like.

Not every country would be happy about being showered with your radioactive fallout

Exactly why a bully country would meet resistance from many EU countries, due to creating the threat of nuclear fallout. Thus no US forces necessary?

EDIT: It's called 'nuclear parity':

https://www.armscontrol.ru/start/publications/dkp0731.htm

Obviously, Moscow was not satisfied with the situation that a total retaliatory strike, and hence unlimited nuclear war (equal to suicide), was the only response in the case of an escalating limited conflict. Thus, the USSR made titanic efforts and achieved relative nuclear parity with the USA in the early 1970s. The system of strategic nuclear weapons created a state of strategic balance in which each party possessed the capability to inflict unacceptable damage in a retaliatory strike – the essence of the concept of mutually assured destruction. At the same time, at this stage, neither party, theoretically, had the ability to gain superiority after exchanging counter-force strikes. However, the USA continued to seek such superiority. The most vivid example was the US forward deployment of nuclear forces in Europe and the Reagan doctrine of limited nuclear war.

[–]Node 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was on the East German border, at the Fulda Gap breakthrough point, way back. They told me our life expectancy was about 3 minutes if it kicked off. 🤕