Is the Pfizer COVID vaccine safe?

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[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

i'm still extremely distrusting of vaccines and our enemies who relentlessly push them

This type of paranoia doesn't make sense. Doctors aren't being paid to kill people. Maybe you're thinking of Mercenaries/Hitmen?

A vaccine is medicine like any other, except it's there to save you from the biggest pandemic ravaging the world right now...

[–]Nombre27 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

A vaccine is medicine like any other, except it's there to save you from the biggest pandemic ravaging the world right now...

Many of the covid vaccines are not designed traditionally, e.g. manufactured from live-attenuated viruses.

mRNA vaccines are obviously not.

I think the autoimmune concerns are well-reasoned.

Typically when you come into contact with a virus, e.g. someone sneezes in your face and you get the cold, this virus would have been 100% foreign to your immune system. It was made and processed in someone else's body. It would not have any post-translational modifications that your body would identify as self when your body responds to it and makes epitopes for your immune system.

My concern with the mRNA vaccines is that for people whose first contact with covid is that they are not going to be entirely foreign as the mRNA will be processed within the body and will essentially have self/non-self parts to it, i.e. it's possible that your body will both recognize some of it as self and some of it as non-self.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16014515/

Although the immune system has developed mechanisms to distinguish "self" from "non-self," the presence of autoimmune diseases demonstrates that these mechanisms can be bypassed. The posttranslational modification of self-antigens is one way in which "new" antigens are created for which immune tolerance does not exist. We review some of the posttranslationally modified self-antigens associated with autoimmune diseases, how they arise, and how they break immune tolerance.

Moderna founders. We can to set off the immune system but not do it traditionally. Wcgw?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine#History

Hungarian biochemist Katalin Karikó attempted to solve some of the main technical barriers to introducing mRNA into cells in the 1990s. Karikó partnered with American immunologist Drew Weissman, and by 2005 they published a joint paper that solved one of the key technical barriers by using modified nucleosides to get mRNA inside cells without setting off the body's defense system.[3][23] Harvard stem cell biologist Derrick Rossi (then at Stanford) read Karikó and Weissman's paper and recognized that their work was "groundbreaking",[23] and in 2010 founded the mRNA-focused biotech Moderna along with Robert Langer, who also saw its potential in vaccine development.[23][3] Like Moderna, BioNTech also licensed Karikó and Weissman's work.[23]

Continued. Literally not mRNA vaccine until now was licensed

Up until 2020, these mRNA biotech companies had poor results testing mRNA drugs for cardiovascular, metabolic and renal diseases; selected targets for cancer; and rare diseases like Crigler–Najjar syndrome, with most finding that the side-effects of the mRNA delivery methods were too serious.[24][25] mRNA vaccines for human use have been developed and tested for the diseases rabies, Zika, cytomegalovirus, and influenza, although these mRNA vaccines have not been licensed.[26] Many large pharmaceutical companies abandoned the technology,[24] while some biotechs re-focused on the less profitable area of vaccines, where the doses would be at lower levels and side-effects reduced.[24][27]

mRNA vaccines are unnecessary and have poor outcomes since their inception. We have already established vaccine technologies. If you really want to get a covid vaccine, get one that is traditionally designed (I don't know if anyone has made one).

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

If you really want to get a covid vaccine, get one that is traditionally designed (I don't know if anyone has made one).

If you get infected with Covid-19, you might not actually live to see it. That's why it's better to get the vaccine right now. It's there to prolong life, not shorten it.

[–]Nombre27 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I would say the conspiracy is to funnel money and make people do what you want through fearmongering.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Making the vaccines hasn't really been that profitable and the obvious gigantic financial incentive for the vaccines is that they end the pandemic which means the economy can recover.

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Making the vaccines hasn't really been that profitable

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/heres-how-much-money-pfizer-moderna-and-johnson-johnson-could-make-from-covid-vaccines

Pfizer's latest earnings report notes that Comirnaty profits are split 50-50 with BioNTech. The companies expect the vaccine to bring in revenues of approximately $15 billion in 2021.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/02/covid-vaccine-pfizer-expects-about-15-billion-in-2021-sales-from-shots.html

Pfizer said Tuesday it expects to sell about $15 billion in coronavirus vaccine doses this year and to net a profit in the high 20% range of revenue for the inoculations.

I don't think $15 billion (or $3 billion/20%) is anything to sneeze at.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

That isn't profit, a large portion of that is cost, developing a drug quickly runs into the billions and then billions of doses have to be produced. If this is some type of scam it isn't a very good one and we still get a highly effective and safe vaccine from it. From a cost/benefit standpoint the covid-vaccine is extremely efficient. Trillions for a pandemic or a few billion for a vaccine.

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If this is some type of scam it isn't a very good one and we still get a highly effective and safe vaccine from it.

I'm skeptical of that.

I recall the 95% efficacy (I think it was) that was claimed.

When you look at the data for that claim it was about 40000 people total, 20000 in each arm, vaccinated or placebo.

Something like 160 people tested positive in the control arm, within 2 weeks or 1 month iirc. While 8 tested positive in the vaccine arm.

160/(160+8)*100 = ~95%

Or in other words, 19992 (99.96%) vs. 19840 (99.2%) people didn't get sick at all. I can accept that that is the proper way to report the data but looking at that data doesn't leave me convinced, especially since they didn't go and test all the people in both groups, they're relying on a sample of 0.04%-0.8% as if that's supposed to be representative.

Go ahead and get vaccinated if you think that's best for you, but please reciprocate that and respect the autonomy of others.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Flip a coin 160 times what are the odds of getting 160+ heads?

A number so small that coin flip calculator can't calculate it. In fact if 40 people had gotten the virus who had been vaccinated the risk of the vaccine not working at all would be 0.000000000003091. The confidence intervals were provided in the article published we can with a very high degree of certainty conclude that the vaccines are highly effective. The math is published in the article so if you want to critique their stats send them an email showing where they went wrong.

As for vaccines a large portion of the point is to stop the spread through herd immunity. People don't want people who carry disease around them.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The math is published in the article so if you want to critique their stats send them an email showing where they went wrong.

I don't think you read what I wrote.

I can accept that that is the proper way to report the data but looking at that data doesn't leave me convinced, especially since they didn't go and test all the people in both groups, they're relying on a sample of 0.04%-0.8% as if that's supposed to be representative.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Covid19 is an RNA virus meaning that if you get infected you are going to get way, way more foreign mRNA in you and many more different such proteins and in far larger doses that reproduce in an uncontrolled way. Claiming that the vaccine is dangerous because of mRNA while not taking covid seriously doesn't make sense. If you are afraid of foreign mRNA covid should terrify you most of all. It isn't just covid that is foreign mRNA but you get a dose of foreign mRNA that makes a vaccine dose look puny when you get a common cold.

mRNA vaccines are unnecessary and have poor outcomes since their inception.

They have done really well during the pandemic and have shown to be safer, more effective and easier to scale production of than other types of vaccines.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Covid19 is an RNA virus meaning that if you get infected you are going to get way, way more foreign mRNA in you and many more different such proteins and in far larger doses that reproduce in an uncontrolled way. Claiming that the vaccine is dangerous because of mRNA while not taking covid seriously doesn't make sense. If you are afraid of foreign mRNA covid should terrify you most of all. It isn't just covid that is foreign mRNA but you get a dose of foreign mRNA that makes a vaccine dose look puny when you get a common cold.

I don't think you understood what I wrote, or perhaps I didn't communicate it as well as I could have.

Main point, please re-read, I added a small edit in case that may have caused the lack of clarity.

My concern with the mRNA vaccines is that for people whose first contact with covid (edit: through the vaccine) is that they are not going to be entirely foreign as the mRNA will be processed within the body and will essentially have self/non-self parts to it, i.e. it's possible that your body will both recognize some of it as self and some of it as non-self.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My concern with the mRNA vaccines is that for people whose first contact with covid (edit: through the vaccine) is that they are not going to be entirely foreign as the mRNA will be processed within the body and will essentially have self/non-self parts to it, i.e. it's possible that your body will both recognize some of it as self and some of it as non-self.

Luckily we have extensive data on the topic and it shows that the vaccines are incredibly safe. I find it funny that people are so concerened about vaccines when air pollution is a vastly bigger problem. People die of salt in their food all the time yet are super scared of miniscule vaccine risks.

As for the vaccines giving autoimmune disease that simply hasn't happened. As your article shows this has been researched for many years and these problems have been solved.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People die of salt in their food all the time yet are super scared of miniscule vaccine risks.

I agree with you that they are miniscule. The issue/conflict that I have is whether they're necessary for people that are a low risk for having a severe response to covid infection.