How to deal with our movement being propagandized

submitted by Minedwe from self.debatealtright

If you have ever watched TV or looked at the internet you know fascism, the 3rd Reich, etc. get incorrectly compared to modern neoconservative or neoliberal groups to demonize them. "Fascism" is a catch all term used by all mainstream sides to describe things they don't like. How do we counter signal against this? Even in relatively easy to disprove scenarios, such as the 3rd Reich being used as an example of an "anti-gun" nation, people tend to refuse to listen, so how do you guys propose we try to dispel or turn around these fallacious comparisons?

all 26 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]wristaction 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Correct the historical sequence they have in their minds. Always emphasize that fascism emerged as a popular reaction against a decade of communist terrorism. That German communists had twice tried to overthrow the liberal Weimar government before the NSDAP even existed. That Lenin was just across the border slaughtering Russians, first cutting off their right arms to prevent them from performing the sign of the cross.

Always correct "liberals are the real fascists" nonsense. Firmly but politely suggest they should simply call communists communists. Explain that the thing they're calling "fascist" is more a hallmark of communist tyranny (this is especially apt when the thing is censorship). Then explain that Antifa isn't confused about the directionality of things and that the contrivance of "antifa are the real fascists" only serves to obfuscate and misdirect people who are under attack.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

first cutting off their right arms to prevent them from performing the sign of the cross.

this happened?? whyyy??

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Why waste your energy trying to talk to NPCs? They can't be convinced. Find people who actually have more than 3 brain cells to talk to.

[–]VarangianRasputin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

NPC's will just switch to us when the time is right anyway. We don't absolutely need a majority, we just need enough support.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly this. Bootlickers will always just gravitate to power.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Is this a debate sub, or a "promote alt right ideology support group" sub? Because it's looking increasingly like the latter

[–]AFutureConcern 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's open to debate, but the reason it's a bit of an echo chamber is because on reddit, it was one of the last alt-right subreddits, and the quarantine caused most honest debate to dry up. Now the users are here.

I would suggest asking some probing questions to us in another thread. I usually do my best to answer from the higher steps of the pyramid of debate.

Maybe I'll set up a devil's advocate thread as well to get the debate flowing.

[–]Minedwe[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you want to debate us then debate for fucks sake, don't constantly complain about "hurr durr nobody debating" while you sit around and don't even offer any debate here.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You know very well our history. We started out on Reddit as a "come and debate us if you think we're stupid skinhead trash", but no one would because the few that did got slaughtered in a debate, so we transmogrified into an intelligent discussion sub. We could change our name or just keep it and invite all doubters to come and try and change our mind. What do you care? Aren't you against censorship? Not trying to make you mad, this is your house, but if you're for free speech why are you trying to manipulate our speech?

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm against censorship but I'm also against people trying to hijack saidit's front page by pretending to be a "debate" sub when they clearly aren't, and are doing it with the obvious purpose of proselytizing their extremist ideology

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look, we and I specifically already explained our history and why we're here, Reddit pushed further and further into a corner and finally off their site, but we were always a "come and debate us sub". And what you call our "extreme ideology" was the general consensus among Whites from 1619 to 1965 when the real extreme and might I say enemy ideology was shoved down our throats. AND it's normal thinking for any race EXCEPT Whites who are supposed to embrace our displacement.

[–]PRSanon 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a sub for debating members of the alt right. Means that it's for people debating the alt right, and also that it's for members of the alt right who debate.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How do we counter signal against this?

We don't. We are fascists.

Even in relatively easy to disprove scenarios, such as the 3rd Reich being used as an example of an "anti-gun" nation, people tend to refuse to listen, so how do you guys propose we try to dispel or turn around these fallacious comparisons?

Don't engage people that won't listen.

[–]wristaction 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Nah. You have to go deeper to the cultural assumptions which cement this "nazis bad" dogma in place. Hack away there.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's takes time and trust to work with someone and unravel all the conditioning. It's better to start with something else. Loosen the sweater string. Build up some cog dissonance. Than work on the myth of German Villainy. It's just to difficult to start with.

[–]Hadza 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is no point trying to change the mind of someone you have 0 authority over

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

how do you guys propose we try to dispel or turn around these fallacious comparisons?

By suing internet companies for violating our First Amendment Civil Rights. Marsh V. Alabama; when the public square is privately owned the First Amendment applies.

[–]Minedwe[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not talking about censorship though, although it's a big issue, I'm talking about false equivalencies made by average people.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I suppose in the big picture we're only allowed to make the most PC of arguments so are quite limited in our rhetorical options. If we had actual free speech we could say absurd things like Hollywood does to brainwash people, we can't, WE and only we, have to keep our noses squeaky clean. e.g. We can't even say "this is war" or "we will fight them" without someone on the left calling the FBI about our "violent rhetoric". But Hollywood can have a Black character say "Kill White people and get paid, sheeeit, what's not to like?"

[–]Minedwe[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Indeed. There are subtle ways to decry and disprove them though. And there are more direct (and risky, but who cares?) ways. Besides, you should always have multiple accounts on any anti-free speech platform. I've had like 10 twitter accounts at this point, you can usually get through to at least a few people before you get banned.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I think Twitter is great for reaching normies but they keep upping the ante on anonymity to the point where you have to buy a burner phone, do captcha, etc. with every tweet.

[–]Minedwe[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah exactly. Whenever they ask for a phone number i just abandon the account and make a new one.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just take a deep breath and do a very light facepalm. If they engage, you can explain why they're wrong, if they don't, don't bother wasting time.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

the 3rd Reich being used as an example of an "anti-gun" nation

I'll let this one stand. Let them go to town on this idea.

[–]Minedwe[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why is that? It's factually incorrect and drives off people that would otherwise be easy to redpill.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because I think we'll gain more 2A proponents than we'll lose red pilled. (I've not thought this through deeply and my comment was more smart ass than anything.)