magnora7's post in /r/conspiracy/: "People are so overwhelmed that no one can actually have a real conversation about what's happening"

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[–]dicknipples 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

There are a few users here who will remember discussions with M7 2+ years ago at Saidit and Reddit. This recent post is more emotional than some of the previous comments, but he is perhaps more emotional than some of us. Note that he did not offer much in the way of specific information about politics or other key topics at Saidit. I and some others have been interested in Saidit as a place for political discussion, especially after Reddit removed /r/politics from /r/all long ago, and thereafter developed a corporate model for an entertaiment-focused website without much political discussion that one could easily locate or freely engage in. Thus it was brave of M7 and d3rr to arrange a website that could include relatively open political discussion. What reduced the numbers here were some bans of users and the rise of other political websites that formed after Reddit banned them 2 years ago. Hence d3rr has noted that some of these ultra right wing websites drew users away from Saidit. Also, M7 has lamented that a free speech website ultimately gets hijacked by right wing extremists, who are the loudest voices on it. (They can both corroborate their earlier statements if you don't believe me.) Any exterior information about Saidit will note that it's mainly a website for political discussion. And of course we know that it's also primarily right wing. I can count only 3 'left'-leaning users who are here occasionally, one of whom is me. Many at Saidit are former Bernie supporters, and many are not on the extreme right, though the posts here seem to imply that it's an extreme right wing website. Most of us are somewhat older than Redditors. Everyone here is sick of corporate corruption in politics. What has annoyed /u/magnora7 the most - I think - has been the attacks between users, as you can partially see in his current post. But political discussion can be naturally acrimonious. My personal philosophy about Saidit (which doesn't matter on Saidit) is that, under all the shit, within the chaos of nonsense, there are occasional lessons to be had in an open forum like this, where one can learn about the political opinions of others (or rather - you folks listen to Fox so I don't have to, and I can learn from you about Fox, and of course I comment on that). I've always said I think there is potential for Saidit. There have been times when admins and mods helped develop Saidit and then they left, many of them, or they occasionally reappear. Right, /u/AXXA? /u/Zapped? /u/Musky? /u/HongKongPhooey? /u/soundsituation? I'd link to d3rr but he'd yell at me for doing so. Perhaps we'll all disagree on this, but that's my point - Saidit has this potential as a place of debate - but users should want to develop it as such. But I think many here would prefer social echo chambers, sadly.

[–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

You can only message 3 users in a single comment. The rest will not be notified.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

How did you confirm this?

[–]EddieC 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Worse – Did you know this:
 

"You don't get a notification for a reply to someone else"

– even if you are the Original Poster (OP)
 

Meaning, those in the thread (even the OP) would miss later replies
Hence, not conducive for building community / mutual knowledge
 
BUT more importantly we need to shift to an accretive dialogue mindset
Otherwise, it is Groundhog Day everyday for everyone for ever!
 
Without this mindset, usurpers have a field day usurping people's focus and the platform
 
With this mindset in place,

  • usurpers will simply be shunned
  • the technical limitations of the forum become minor annoyances - hardly noticeable - since everyone will be in essence on the same page – to grow with cumulative knowledge
     

[–]EddieC 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

u/Ehhhhhh,
 
Re: your comment:

We could still form supportive groups to try and share good info and ideas.

 
Please note the above problem re: SaidIt's (lack of) notification, but the solution is simple: mindset change to accretive dialogue for ___? Why not usurper-free Direct systems?

  • gather for community curated wiki / pinned tweets @community wall @ community intelligence
    -- no more endless scrolling
     
  • gather to put pieces of the puzzle together
    -- no more unproductive idle chatter/rants/boring shitposts
     

[–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This is years-old news, directly from M7D3 and verified through trial and error - unless things have been since modified.

Also, including a /u/name in a post title or post body won't notify them.

[–]Tarrock 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Also, M7 has lamented that a free speech website ultimately gets hijacked by right wing extremists, who are the loudest voices on it.

It's worth noticing how /pol/'s razor work. A forum left unmoderated will always turn right wing. In order for a forum to be left-wing it has to be heavily censored and moderated(Reddit) since leftist arguments are easily torn apart and debunked. Remember, Reddit used to be right of center before the huge big tech crackdown around 2015 and beyond.

[–]dicknipples 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's worth noticing how /pol/'s razor work. A forum left unmoderated will always turn right wing. In order for a forum to be left-wing it has to be heavily censored and moderated(Reddit) since leftist arguments are easily torn apart and debunked.

Absolutely not the reason for a shift to the right. There is a lot of evidence about the aggressive, highly paid propaganda movement pushing increadibly dumb followers to the right with their simplistic BS. Everyone wants the answers to be easy, black and white, but anyone with a bit of intelligence will understand the significance of thinking about our political decisions rather than going along with the disinformation propaganda. The answers are complicated and the right aggressively push for a self-centered, simplistic rational for following the propaganda, while criticizing the facts, as they're told to do by the propaganda campaigns. The 'left' do not follow each other like that. Indeed they tend to argue more about politics. It can be difficult to unify the left, but they do stand for what's important: human rights, the enviroment, reasonable wages, corporate regulations, healthcare, good education, democracy, etc, etc, which the wealty 1% on the right have been desrtoying through their disinformation campaigns. It's working. Note that we're arguing about facts. This is what the 1% want.

Remember, Reddit used to be right of center before the huge big tech crackdown around 2015 and beyond.

Absolutely false. Perhaps you were in the /r/TheDonald and similar subs in 2015/16, and seeing Cambridge Analytica disinformation at that time in social media, but I've been on Reddit 15 years and have seen similar balances views in /r/Politics and somewhat in /r/Worldnews, though the mods can be a problem for anyone in those subs. It's never been right of center. It started as a place mainly with IT professionals discussing IT-related items and the news, but did not become particularly left or right. Perhaps recently there is a left-lean. Also, many of them love guns and hate women and the average age always seems to be 10-17. In 2007 the average age was early '20s.

[–]JasonCarswellPlatinum Foil Fedora 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

There is a lot of evidence about the aggressive, highly paid propaganda movement pushing increadibly dumb followers to the right with their simplistic BS.

IFIFY:
There is a lot of evidence about the aggressive, highly paid education system and corporate media propaganda movement pushing absolutely insane followers to the ideologically Extreme Woke Left with their hypocritical cult BS.

We didn't change the Overton window. The "Left" did.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A forum left unmoderated will always turn right wing. In order for a forum to be left-wing

Imaging thinking that "left vs right" is a thing.

[–]hfxB0oyA 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's a thoughtfully crafted post. You might think otherwise from what I post, but I'd count myself as a slightly left of centre leaning Canadian (which in some circles would see me condemned as a Marxist-Lenninist). However, I'm finding these labels to be less and less relevant, as a simple left/right label can't adequately sum up the totality of opinions a person will have across a range of issues. Plus, like many I'm feeling politically homeless, even with a spectrum of 5 or 6 major parties that a fella could vote for up here. This is why, as you say, Saidit's potential as a place of debate is important. I'm happy to have access to this place where I disagree strongly with a number of people. It's a better situation than soaking in the tepid waters of a site that has more users and content, but it's all sanitized to march in lockstep to whatever the majority opinion is decreed to be.