LOL WUTHol’ up, I thought the Native Americans were all down with the LGBTQIA2++good? Navajo Nation refuses to allow or even recognise gay marriages and according to the Washington Post it’s all White people’s fault

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

There's a somewhat odd dichotomy I've noticed in American cultural stereotypes of "liberals" vs "conservatives" or right vs left or whatever you want to call it. I think the distinctions are somewhat arbitrary anyway but I digress.

There's this idea that people on the left are more tolerant of other cultures, foreigners, indigenous peoples, etc, which on the surface I think is true to some level, as people on the left tend to be more open to experience than conservatives, on the other hand it seems that the modern "leftwing" is ironically extremely intolerant of actual cultural differences beyond the surface level of dress, food, religious practice etc, and seems to expect that everyone should follow their own cultural paradigm and get upset when people don't, not realizing at all how that is more or less identical to the imperialist mindset they rail against.

On the other hand conservatives tend to be way less tolerant of the surface level stuff, at least in the sense they don't care to participate in cultural activities that aren't their own, but they do seem to in my experience be more willing to treat foreigners or indigenous types the same as they'd treat their own people provided everyone is acting within what they consider to be the "accepted rules" of whatever the local culture is.

It gets a bit funny cause you see immature liberal types start doting on minorities and the minorities rightly call them racist.

Also pretty funny with dealing with any sort of international stuff, get the young kids with no sense going abroad the first time and freaking out that not everyone thinks like a 20 something university student a world away. It's really hilarious in the Arab countries, you get a bunch of dumb broads that think the public morality rules don't apply to them (they do) and hilarity ensues. Been an issue for decades though. Got a funny story from a guy who was working in Saudi in the 70's and had to send a bunch of European executives back home because their wives were total dumbasses who thought they could just go out in public in a bikini because the local rules were "stupid".

[–]bopomofodojo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is precisely it. Liberals (a.k.a. "the left" America and the Anglosphere) are all about surface-level diversity, but not diversity of thought or belief, which is why they're so shocked and taken aback when, for instance, pro-Palestinian ("POC! POC!") protesters beat up a TQ+ kween. They legitimately think that because they're both "disadvantaged by the white man" that they're actually the same on the inside or something. Conservatives, on the other hand, tend to be very divisive about surface-level things, but often change their tune when actually exposed to people from other visibly-different communities that share the same values. It's not quite, but pretty close to, the inverse of liberals.

Both are trivial analyses however. Both fail to recognize that individuals are complex and multi-faceted.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah I think the categorization of people into right or left in the American sense is more for political convenience than any useful metric for identifying people's philosophical motivations.

Regardless it's interesting to discuss. I think as a simple matter of more liberal spaces being generally more open to "cultural exploration" it does mean that you get people who are otherwise aligned with the liberal camp but are for all intents and purposes not tolerant of other cultures and practices at all. Hilarity ensues when this happens. It kinda folds into a general trend against anti-traditionalism as you'll see them outright disrespect the foreign cultural practices they consider to be "backwards" without even realizing the irony of that within the liberal tradition. It's pretty funny. Most people are pretty reasonable when it comes down to it though, but there's always a few crazies that slip through the cracks.

Conservative groups I think have less of the crazy intolerant types skip through the cracks because it's way more culturally acceptable for them to just outright say they don't want to participate in their school trip to Mexico or whatever (doubt Americans do that anymore though) so the only groups I've heard of that happening at all with is church groups which generally as the people are going are people who want to go, they are generally less idiots, the idiots seem to self select out.

It's weird dealing with the extremes though. The extreme leftist stereotypes are like totally stupid when it comes to stuff like international travel, I remember arguing with some hippie idiot in Thailand about how she's got a death wish trying to pet street dogs and she needs to go to a hospital and get a rabies shot even though she feels fine after she got bit, first world spoiled bitch gonna find out why Darwin was right the hard way.

On the other hand have rightwing Americans freaking the fuck out when I tell them I'm popping over to Tiajuana for lunch and a movie. Apparently it's a super dangerous place and they know never to go there because nobody they know has ever gone there. Ok then, let's go together and see if it's so dangerous for ourselves? Or let's believe what the TV tells us.

(It's not like "safe" but unless you are being a dumbass it's probably safer than Los Angeles, at least in the tourist areas).

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

like the cliche of the Republican congressman unable to continue all his past beliefs after his son comes out of the closet: it's a bit Hallmark-y but at least the cliche of it happening is pretty common; the inverse is the Be Kind Dem with one of those "In this house we believe--" yard sign who always calls the cops on people for walking their dogs

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I think the distinctions are somewhat arbitrary anyway but I digress.

The distinctions aren't really arbitrary so much as they are scrambled. I would say intentionally but right now most people have adopted the dumb framing. The primary motivator that i would blame is liberalism. Liberalism is by definition all about pro corporate power and capitalism. This demands a certain economic reality which diminishes the power of labor so that wealth can be concentrated upwards. This is by definition right wing. Those oligarchs then create fake causes to fight for to redirect left wing populist energy away from economic issues and onto social justice issues. The CEO does not care if the human cog on their assembly line is male, female, gay, straight, melaninated, blue hair queer, etc... So long as they can use that person to generate profit. Basically they bait and switch the concept of populism with culture war issues to convince the public that multinational corporations are left wing because they put up a BLM logo while siphoning wealth from black communities. This path of thought goes on forever ending up with people believing that populism is "right" and democrats are somehow on the "left" even though they now align with neocons on foreign policy.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The CEO does not care if the human cog on their assembly line is male, female, gay, straight, melaninated, blue hair queer, etc... So long as they can use that person to generate profit.

But they haven't been generating a profit yet have still been kept on. So it really isn't a problem of liberalism or capitalism.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But that ties to the other side of pandering to the social justice:

Do pander to the woke, the non-woke person won't care enough to do more than surface-level complaining and the woke person will be placated.

Do not pander to the woke, the non-woke person won't rally behind your company, and the woke person will scream so loud the whole world will hear them. The woke person is loud, whiny, and entitled enough to demand your head, personally, for not giving them their way, they are terminally online enough to find anyone they can to complain- they'll go to your boss, your boss's boss, THEIR boss's boss, and all the way up to the board of directors who'll just say "shut up shut up don't care don't care OH MY GOD I DON'T CARE just fire whatever peasant they're complaining about before it effects the stock prices", and they have a Harry Potter complex so they truly believe this is the fight of their lifetime, to get you fired makes them the greatest hero in human history, and in 50 years they'll make statues of them and name high schools after them for getting you fired for not giving them their way.

With those things in play, it is better for the worker for a company to pander to the woke, even if it doesn't give them profit, because THEY, personally, profit from it.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do you mean? Something like an Amazon driver shitting in a bag is because the corporation is trying to squeeze more work hours out of the drivers and it definitely 100% translates to profit. Liberalism is benefitted by scrambling definitions because they give off leftist "vibes" by putting up a BLM banner on their website while making their actual black employees shit in a bag. Those racial justice vibes and even BLM itself get framed as "the left" instead of actual leftist policies which would favor labor. I was just sitting in a meeting yesterday where a corporate lobbyist was lamenting about populism "causing problems in Congress because populism is an extreme left and extreme right ideology which was preventing moderates from bringing in a speaker of the house." Even in their statement the definition is just nonsensical but it seemed like the person believed their own scrambled definitions but it benefits the bottom line of the lobbyist and the parent corporation to call any politician who does what they want as "moderate".

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I treat US politics as basically two coalitions: since Reagan the Pubs have the fundies, the child-slavery megacorps, the "keep the guv'mint out of my Social Security" right-libertarians; the neocons started out there but returned home to the party of the Kennedys under SoS Hillary and we got Libya, Syria, and Ukraine (anyone even remember those wars?); so large groups can switch pretty quickly and reconfigure the whole political landscape, like the Dixiecrats or whatever Joe Lieberman is

the Dems are more like Neapolitan ice cream--a layer of Irish who vote as the ward boss tells them to, a layer of Southern Blacks who vote for the same nonagenarian for 50 years, a stripe for "the Hispanics" (who aren't super-united), a stripe for secular Jews, a stripe for Arab-Americans, a stripe for the LGBTIAACREF+, a little spumoni of Letzbuerger-American diehards or whatever: this party hierarchy's set up to manage voter expectations and prevent primaries: Rahm Emanuel literally won by telling Southside Chicago "you don't want some Mexican in charge, do you?" and then went north and said "I'll keep the Southsiders off your lawns"; the DNC was hopping mad when Sanders attracted white and Republican voters

most people think of politics in terms of values rather than policies: they can favor "family" or "success," or "helpfulness" and "being kind": nobody's gonna admit, "yes, I support a swivel-eyed chickenhawk who molested his intern, finished the Wall, and put one-third of Black men in jail," or "I have a life-sized portrait of the unchurched, insolvent serial adulterer who backed gun control and whose best friend was the leader of Russia in my office"

after all, they're not that sort of person!

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The thing about that nonsensical mix of voters who go for democrats is they are hanging on by a thread and the republicans could snap like half of those people up in an instant if any of them realized that leftist conservatives can exist. Hell, I'm way on the left and I would have voted for Ron Paul if he made it through to the general in 08 or whatever year that was explicitly because he was honest and antiwar. Trump scrambled all the neocons to go running to work with democrats and now the entire democratic party is filled with warmongers

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah, there's actually a long isolationist tradition among US conservatives (since like the 1770s Tories), and most self-identified economic progressives (not Democrats) snipe at "stupidpol" because it's too easy to just yell "racist! and, no, whitefolk and J00z, I am NOT obligated to explain further"

I always compare US politics to a zoo where every species is labeled either "sea anemone" or "marmoset" or something

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is because liberals generally have the belief that all people are good underneath whatever their current behaviour is and all problems of conflict between people can be eventually solved somehow.

When they see people who actually think differently and want different things to them it upsets that worldview so those people have to be punished and got rid of some how.

Meanwhile conservatives accept some people are bad and some issues can't be solved and just have to be managed so they can accept people who think differently and a conflict of ideas as long as behaviour is good.

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Have you read a conflict of visions by Thomas Sowell? This touches on this. Constrained and unconstrained frameworks

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, but I've probably read something that referenced it.

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I got banned from a subreddit once for saying I just wouldn't ever visit a country like the UAE if I or my wife had to be cucked by their religious laws to be there. Why fucking bother?

The response I got was basically "You have to respect their culture AND you should want to be an American tourist and visit and spend money there!"

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd say it is respecting someone's culture if you think "I don't like this country and their rules, I'll respect them by not visiting".

The most disrespectful thing you can do is visit them and not follow their rules frankly. Like whether or not you agree with the rules is totally beside the point, if I visit my neighbor I follow their house rules and expect reciprocity. And if their rules are just retarded I won't visit in the first place.

[–]NastyWetSmear 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

OH NO! How could I have done this to the Indians?? And all while having only ever seen them on TV?! Curse my white skin and it's magical powers!

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (9 children)

The anti-gaydons emitted from white skin attach to the indigitrons in the native cultures and alter their structure. Indian societies were 100% LGBTQIA+=&! until the white man came and invented the concept of biological sex to enslave them.

[–]ClassroomPast6178[S] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Excuse me sir, but do you have a pamphlet? I find your ideas most fascinating and simply must find out more.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It's simple elementary science man. All colours of the rainbow are beautiful but while black loves and accepts all colors white cruelly reflects them all away!

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

We've done so much harm! That's it, I'm going to get skin cancer to do my part to help men who like to dress up like women and suck cocks while also being Native American! God bless the allegiance flag!

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

Step 1. Identify as a woman.

Step 2. Convert to Islam.

Step 3. Free Palestine!

Step 4. Prophet!

[–]NastyWetSmear 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

... I can prolly do 1 and 2 without leaving my desk, but I'm gonna have to wait till my lunch break to tackle number 3.

[–]ClassroomPast6178[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Step 4. Prophet!

I died. I’m dead.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Congratulations. Here are your 72 virginians.

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

72 virginians.

Hold up, that's not right...

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

FUCK THE RIGHT!

HOW DARE YOU ENTER THIS SAFE SPACE WITH YOUR RIGHT! ISLAMIC TRANS LESBIANS OF COLOUR HAVE NO RIGHTS! THEY HAVE SUFFERED FOR ONE THOUSAND AND ONE ARABIAN NIGHTS. DON'T EVEN PRETEND TO UNDERSTAND THAT! 👏 👏 👏

[–]JulienMayfair 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I tend to see it all as a lot of Recycled Rousseau and The Noble Savage, living in a State of Nature without all the pesky rules of Western Civilization. The thing is, that was always a European fantasy. Native Americans were as human and as given to all human characteristics as anyone else. Tribes fought wars with one another, killed their enemies, and harbored deep prejudices about the culture and habits of those "other people" (members of other tribes). But all that gets in the way of the fantasy that they all lived in a gender-diverse, progressively-minded Garden of Eden. Especially since the 1990s, Native American identity has been constructed by progressive academics to suit their needs. Those same people are deeply inconvenienced when they find Native Americans not playing their assigned roles. The only recourse of those academics is to explain any failure to play that role as the result of colonization. They must have learned all that bad behavior from The White Man.

I think I saw an article somewhere else about the problems Canadians ran into when they decided to look into the homicide rate among indigenous women, which they were calling "genocide." The inconvenient part was when their investigations revealed that these women were being killed by indigenous men.

[–]OuroborosTheory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I keep saying that they're treated like wood elves who live off dew and talk to the willows and hummingbirds rather than people with needs, politics, ideologies, and funny myths about how a weasel can kill a wendigo--except in D&D and the other Tolkien derivatives wood elves are ultra-xenophobes who you do NOT want to take you captive

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

more to the point, they got rid of the Land o' Lakes Girl and some statues of Bartolome de Las Casas, so now there's no problems for Natives at all, ever--right?

now of course they can say those are just token gestures (and morbid jokes about how they kept the land but removed the Indian): but there's only so many times you can say "everything's worse than it ever was," and even (anonymously, in delicate terms) sympathetic people start asking whether the sophomore with the bullhorn has a good grasp of whether xir actions is actually doing literally anything for the Cause besides padding a resume for when they run the Twitter for Lockheed's cradle-targeting missile division

so ultimately they have to admit that their demand was completely inconsequential, that the Movement turned into nothing more than some broken public art, a "center for studies" that's being chased by the auditors, some smashed Target stores, and one segregationist geezer was elected narrowly over another segregationist geezer--just like the last three, five times

[–]xoenix 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Do they trans their kids though? Indigenous Canadians have the highest rates of child transition, especially among girls. Likely due to rampant child abuse.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd suspect it also has something to do with the large amount of social workers sent up to the frozen wastes as well. They're going to be well trained in spotting "gender nonconforming children" and surprise surprise they find them.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also because so many of their kids go into care so are at the mercy of woke social workers.

[–]clownworlddropout 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LGBTQIA2++good

Nice one lol

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Navajo have balls of steel.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If only they were their own thing and could change the law...oh wait.

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

and don't "two-spirits," which they cobbled together from some groups about 4,000 miles apart, have to squat taint on sharp flints every month to bleed?