I fucking hate non binary as a designation for masculine lesbians.

submitted by [deleted] from self.Lesbians

what the hell happened to masculine lesbian women just being masculine lesbian women? Nobody I know is like 10000% of the time oh yes I feel like a caricature of my goddamn gender. Even me, a femme lesbian, dont "ALWAYS FEEL FEMALE" because gender isn't that big of a fucking deal that was the point of the womens liberation movement we could DRESS LOOK ACT AND DO WHAT WE WANT and it didnt change the fact that we were fucking female.

I'm sorry im so mad this is a second fucking super wonderful masculine lesbian I've dated who has now started identifying as non binary while I was dating them. THE SECOND ONE. THEY/THEM fucking pronouns. Cant call her my girlfriend anymore she's my fucking partner. Like its a goddamn law firm. If we get married she won't be my wife. She'll be my goddamn spouse. I hate this. I hate this timeline.

Shes literally perfect and wonderful to me but this is heartbreaking.

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[–]WildwoodFlower 41 insightful - 1 fun41 insightful - 0 fun42 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

For me, they/them pronouns would be a deal breaker. Fortunately, I'm too old to date most of the women (and yes, they are still women) who have jumped on the non-binary train.

[–][deleted] 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

At my age it seems like either I give in or stay single. Fucking sucks

[–]florasis 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Or you stop dating masculine women. The feminine women got not problem with being women, you know...

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

feminine women here are NB too

[–]florasis 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Usa is crazy. My God, really hope they don't ship this bullshit here

[–]TalerTest 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I live in the UK and it's like that here too. There's something about English-speaking countries...

[–]florasis 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Like the fact they're crazy? LMAO

I would like to live in the UK. I think is beautiful country and close to Italy and great quality of life comparing to USA, I like the fact is little and cozy too. Canada sounds cool too. But these countries also always start the most stupid trends. And they're always influence each others, since they all speak the same language.

[–]spirette 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

non-binary and pronoun nonsense doesn't work with gendered languages They/them is literally untranslatable in my language.

And yeah all this shit comes from the US. Which is why countries where English isn't predominant aren't impacted as much. But it would help if US lesbians who rant about this shit stopped using "gender" to mean "sex" It's insane how a whole country doesn't seem to know about basic definitions.

[–]florasis 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They/them would translate in plural in my language. Actually is plural even in english language. I see english speaking people only use sex to mean sexual activity lol

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ya but then you’re stuck with the type of person who thinks the world needs to conform to her feelings. In my experience that is HARD, and not worth it

[–]Tarohan 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ugh for real. I am butch but i am always being asked my pronouns and if I identify as anything else. Like no dude, not all chicks are glitter and hot pink. Women can be tough, badasses, and like 'male hobbies'. I think these genderqueer and trans people are making these gender role 'guidelines' more strict at times by doing that. I dont know. Interesting times.

[–][deleted] 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh completely. They’re like I’m non binary because I don’t feel my gender so basically you’re putting what it means to be a woman into a box again after we fought against that for years

[–]peaked2020 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Same. Got worse when I cut my hair.

[–]TRA-is-the-real-hate 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Literally a major reason I grew my hair out 😞

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

That would be a dealbreaker for me because I consider it a sign of someone so self-absorbed/clueless/sheeple that I would truly have a hard time assimilating the fact that she is literally forcing the world to change specifically for her, and her own specialness feelings.

I genuinely think that non-binaries don’t see themselves as causing harm to women, and especially gnc lesbians, but just the fact that it is not even critically thought about is scary to me.

I completely understand WHY they identify that way, and how difficult it must be to be constantly othered ANYWAY, but it seems like they have almost no compassion for women apart from themselves, or are not intelligent enough to see the big picture and potential costs to women and gnc kids when they publicly renounce womanhood. It’s bad enough being their partner.

Where I live lots of femmes who dress in typical feminine stereotypical clothing etc also identify as non-binary and cry about how no one sees them as a they. It’s insufferable.

[–]yousaythosethings 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yes yes yes. I know some super femme-presenting lesbians who call themselves non-binary. Like you, I get it and don’t get It. Like I see why they feel that way and I see also how it solves NOTHING for themselves and other women. They are still seen as the women they are by everyone. And don’t get me started on how can you be both non-binary and a lesbian unless you’re admitting sexual orientation is based on sex? The lesbians I know are really smart and well-educated, like doctors and lawyers. I think they just have a lot of blind faith in what LGBT orgs are telling them and they haven’t checked under the hood.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Some of the smartest people I know are in the trans cult, but those same people also have issues and are quite selfish. So it’s true, it’s not that they are not smart as much as they have found something that speaks to them, that they can use to elevate their status and sense of belonging in the community, and that matters more than the impact of what they are supporting. So much cognitive dissonance

[–]yousaythosethings 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I will say that the “non-binary lesbians“ I know and am close to are lovely people and generally very empathetic. They just have a major blindspot in this area and are unable to see the consequences of their actions and what they support bc of their blind faith in LGBT orgs. They are def suffering from cognitive dissonance and I don’t think they are lost causes. I think they just need the right information provided to them at the right time by the right source and once there’s a crack in the foundation, it will all fall apart like it did for the rest of us (at least those who supported any of this at one point such as myself).

I think for them, the crack will come from Cotton Ceiling-style info from baby lesbians, bullying of baby lesbians for not being “inclusive” of penis, and information about what mainstream LGBT orgs are saying and not saying about homosexuality, specifically the questions they keep being asked and refuse to respond to. Or how like the National Lesbian Rights Center literally refuses to even mention the word “lesbian.” [Fun fact, I attended an event where the director of that org spoke and it was an absolute word salad woke mess and honestly scary at times bc she was talking about doctors needing to amass statistics on who is gay. I was humiliated that anyone would associate me with her or that org. I digress. . . .]

These people have a huge tolerance for bullshit but I firmly believe they will not tolerate creepy males or ANYONE sexually pressuring young lesbians. It hits too close to home. But to set up the right circumstances to effectively communicate reality to them, you basically need to do an inventory on all of the bullshit they are individually aware of that hasn’t peaked them yet. And also the areas where they are maybe willing to give a little.

This sounds like a Terfy Action Plan and informally it is. I just desperately need some normal lesbians in my life. So I am in the stage of testing out how much bullshit they’ve accepted.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the “non-binary lesbians“ I know and am close to are lovely people and generally very empathetic. They just have a major blindspot in this area and are unable to see the consequences of their actions and what they support bc of their blind faith in LGBT orgs.

this is my gf its so hard because shes lovely except for the nb thing

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Most of them have heard all of the arguments but are deeply indoctrinated. I was in those circles from 1999-2016 and I can say for sure that they have a rebuttal for every criticism on the subject. Mind you, my friend group has a lot of trans and non-binary types and they stand to lose all of their friends if they disagree with any of it. The younger generation is the one to break out of it, I honestly hope they are not so entrenched that they can’t get out. Many of the people I know are professional TRAs. Like writers and academics and therapists etc. They are IN for the long haul. And they are not evil people by any means, just easily manipulated by critical theory and queer theory stuff because so many of them have been living in academic bubbles for too long.

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ugh this is part of the problem. So many young people are making their “identity” a career. And those people are the most entrenched and have the most to gain by losing their goddamn minds. Like the peenbeings behind Pink News, and people like Munro Bergdorf and this new thing I’ve heard referred to as a Jacob Tobia.

[–]votkriscan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would say it's mostly anglophone countries steeped in LGBTQ stuff. Outside of that, very femme-presenting lesbians will either not care to call themselves such terms or they are extremely proud of being a woman.

[–]florasis 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Even feminine lesbians. That's strange. What a mess

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah. It’s pretty annoying. How dare someone think a femme looks like a woman. Lol

[–]florasis 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think is because they don't fully commit to stupid gender stereotype, despite being feminine in look. Anyways, very retarded. Remember the video of a woman saying she was neither boy or girl because she liked to also use stereotypical male clothes, and not just female ones? LMAO. Imaging being so idiotic to think sex is based on a piece of cloth. And then she was married to a trans man and her poor daughter was being raised gender neutral and already showing sign of dysphoria :/

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Non-binary is more of a fashion statement than anything. Lol. It’s true

[–]florasis 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's a statament to prove you're an idiot. I have an advice for the poor lesbians here: date older. Older women are interesting and they are less influenced bu trend :D Don't limit yourself to close in age.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Older women are less likely to put up with your shit, too. Lol

[–]florasis 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like challeging characters lol

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]florasis 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Being alone is way better than being in relationship that makes you unhappy. Imagine having to use the them pronoun all the time lol

    [–]Debaser 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    It really does seem to be like a cult.

    It's a huge step backward after all these years of people finally realising that there's more than one way to present yourself as a woman. Sure, there's still some way to go to break the patriarchal views that expect some women to be oppressed, stuck in the kitchen or looking after kids - if that's your life and you are happy, then please continue. But the other extreme is this... where you've enjoyed the freedoms that women's lib brought about, to dress as you like, enjoy the hobbies they told you were for men, pursue a career that was not traditionally recognised as "womens work", to turn your back on all the things society expects of you as a woman... and then they turn their back on womanhood altogether.

    It simply acts to say "this isn't being a woman after all, it's being a man".

    I'm not femme but I've had a few experiences of butch women trying to femme me up, in some kind of fucked up of way to amplify their masculinity, which was really fucking weird. Makes me twitchy now when I get a sense of that dynamic in a partner.

    Its a disservice to other women and I personally would not be able to continue a relationship with someone with such a mindset, to me it signifies other issues that can't really be worked through.

    [–]knownasness 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    hell yeah man. it's rare that i even meet other cool masc lesbians these days.. but the few dope ones i have 'vibed' with are all 'theys' now. it's weak. it's really not that bad being a woman i promise. so weird.

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    So weak. It is literally weak that drives it.

    [–]reader 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I hate when someone describe women, who don't fit rigid sexist stereotypes as masculine. There is nothing masculine in haircuts, clothes or lack or makeup unless said woman use this things with premeditation, to crossdress, make illusion of having male body and be seen as a man. In such a case calling her trans is just correct. In fact, I think that calling women masculine is the first step to transing them. If we just use femininity and masculinity for biological differences between women and men, we would have much less mess with all that gender identities.

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I absolutely agree. And it’s tough to get around using those words as descriptors. I have a hard time describing a look without resorting to one or the other either.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree, I never use the word masculine to describe a woman, I just use the word butch.

    [–]greenergardens 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    As much as it is kind of nice to be gay at this time, marriage etc, it's equally shitty because of this sort of thing.

    I just want a soft butch girlfriend who can pull off some masculinity but is still a woman and proud of it. Is it so much to ask? 😩

    [–]lmaonope333 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

    hi, nice to meet you 🤝

    [–]greenergardens 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I forget about saidit months at a time (since no notifs) but hello, haha! You give me hope 💜

    [–]peaked2020 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

    Hello, that’s me. I’m in my 30s.

    [–]literallyjustvibing 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    yeah and you also sit around making unnecessary hate posts about bi women so

    [–]peaked2020 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I don't have a problem with all bi women. Just some of them... the ones who cheat and seek attention. I would date a bi girl without an issue if she was normal and many of the people here wouldn't even do that. Done pearl clutching?

    [–]literallyjustvibing 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    doesn't matter which ones you "have a problem with" lol. you came onto a lesbian sub and made a random post about how bi women sleep around, which has nothing to do with lesbians. it's annoying. done being annoying?

    [–]peaked2020 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm sorry I have deeply offended your sensibilities. That two sentence post that clearly stated "not all bi women do this" a different thread. It has nothing to do with this thread, which is about non-binary issues harming butches like me. At this point you are the one bringing "random" comments in. Bye!

    [–]florasis 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah, lots of lesbian hate bisexuals. For one, I understand, considering how much shitty bi girls who aren't seriously into women or call themselves lesbian there are, but they also missing some amazing chicks by avoiding them

    [–]greenergardens 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Super late, but hello haha. I'm in my late 20s. Nice to see some hope out there!

    [–]Marsupial 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It would just be a dealbreaker. They're afraid of being who they are because they don't fit into the most shallow, stereotypic image of femininity there is. And it also suggests a really misogynic view of other women.

    [–]literallyjustvibing 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    honestly, when a girl gets into the pronoun game, that's a dealbreaker for me. hell, i got into it (he/him trans boy :/) and became the worst gf ever. self obsessed, making everyone respect my strict guidelines around language, etc. she was right to dump me. it does something to you

    [–]biggreensunglasses 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    The whole concept of non-binary is the very definition of self-centred gibberish.

    I just can't take it seriously at all. It's like teens going through a goth stage - great fun, great sense of community within your group, but very very cringe to look back on.

    [–]literallyjustvibing 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    honestly nonbinary teens don't bother me so much - it's like what you said. it's a phase and that's what teens do. but the THIRTY FIVE YEAR OLDS walking around going by they/them 😭

    [–]biggreensunglasses 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Oh god yeah I agree. I think a lot are teens or early 20s, and find it fairly amusing thinking of them looking back on it later. The 35 year olds are laughable however.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Cant call her my girlfriend anymore she's my fucking partner. Like its a goddamn law firm.

    Nothing against law firms but this is hilarious. Might borrow that, haha.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    haha go ahead :P

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Do you know what would be funny? You should tell your "theyfriend" that you as of now also decided to become a non-binary, and demand her to call you they/them, and don't allow her calling you a girlfriend anymore. Wouldn't that be a hilarious trolling? Let's see how she likes her own medicine. Who said feminine women can't be non binary, haha.

    Here's even a wilder idea, announce to her that you now identify as a man, and want her to call you he/him/boyfriend.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    she would do it sadly...