Gay MenSF's The Stud no longer a "gay bar", now a "queer bar"

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[–]supersmokio6420 45 insightful - 5 fun45 insightful - 4 fun46 insightful - 5 fun -  (18 children)

Gay male culture has broadened a lot in the past few years, and not just because “masc 4 masc” energy now looks like internalized homophobia in a more liberated world.

Its homophobic to be too gay now, is it?

[–]fuck_reddit 36 insightful - 9 fun36 insightful - 8 fun37 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

“Please do not resist, you are being liberated.”

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 33 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

I honestly don't understand why masc4masc and femme4femme are so criticized in our own community... Jesus. Just let us be. In the gay community it seems like gay men tell masc4masc they have internalized homophobia; in the lesbian community we're accused of being "shallow" and being fixated with the "femininity performance", which contributes to the women oppression or whatever the fuck.

People, just be happy and fuck whoever you want and no need to give explanations to anyone. THAT is true liberation. We're clearly not there yet. Everyone has different tastes and preferences.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think the problem is that a lot of critics, at least with gay men against masc4masc, are jealous. Either because attractive men are excluding feminine men from their dating pool or because masculine men don't suffer from as much homophobia as feminine men in day to day life because they can "pass" as straight.

I know I'm a bit disappointed every time I see a profile on the dating apps that has an attractive person saying that they don't like properties that I have, but I'm also mature enough to know it isn't a personal attack and that it would be absurd to expect everyone to be attracted to me.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

critics, at least with gay men against masc4masc, are jealous. Either because attractive men are excluding feminine men from their dating pool or because masculine men don't suffer from as much homophobia as feminine men in day to day life because they can "pass" as straight.>

Agree totally, that's a large part of it. You can like a weird kink and no one has an issue, but if you like a certain type of guy then everone's upset.

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

There's this mindset (mainly held by people on the woke left) that if you like or perform traditional gender roles you're a piece of shit. They see the underpinnings of gender roles (many of which are products of sexism) and go, 'hey if you support this you're bad'. Yes, sometimes gender roles can be shitty and suffocating, but liking 'traditional' masculinity and femininity doesn't make someone a piece of shit.

TRAs saw LGBs criticizing masc4masc and femme4femme and took it a step further. Now they're saying it's transphobic/homophobic to be gay, and problematic to call yourself gay.

[–]julesburm1891 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

But when Trans people cite traditional gender roles as their identity, the woke cheer them on with blind abandon. The cognitive dissonance is really something.

[–]reluctant_commenter 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nailed it. It's so fundamentally hypocritical.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

100%. Femme4femme gets criticized for being fixated on "feminine performance", and butch/femme relationships also get criticized for "heteronormativity" and "trying to look like straight couples". Myself I am more "futch"/tomboy, and I like women that look like pretty boys. I have been called bisexual by TRAs for only dating other androgynous women. Ffs. Whatever we do we can't win, so just fuck everyone's feelings and be yourself.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

when I see non-gays say that butch-femme couples are heteronormative, I start to understand better why we are in the gender mess in the first place. I never realized some of these people really cant figure it out, I thought they were faking it.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never realized some of these people really cant figure it out, I thought they were faking.

Oh no, they're not faking. Some straight men genuinely can't understand why some lesbians like masc/androgynous women, and the reverse for straight women who can't understand why some gay men like feminine/androgynous men. They're confusing gender presentation with biological sex and sexuality.

The way I've explained it to my straight male friends is, no matter how "manly" a woman dresses, or if she has short hair, when the clothes come off she's still entirely female. It's really that simple.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s such an ignorant attitude. I am quite feminine in appearance and never have I ever felt like I was interacting with a man when with a butch woman. Many have more stereotypically feminine’s interests and personalities than me. And I’m attracted to a wide spectrum of women. Because they’re women.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

called bisexual by TRAs for only dating other androgynous women. Ffs.

this is logical in their thinking, because we are supposed to accept sexuality is based on gender.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah. Which is why I used to be "agender nonbinary" and "pansexual" despite only dating women. My teen-20 year old self was so fucking cringey! XD

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

at least you made it out of the matrix lol

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Preach!! Loved this comment haha, that's right, let's just be happy and be with who we wanna be *

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! :) I'm glad you loved it.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 14 insightful - 8 fun14 insightful - 7 fun15 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Fuck all these gay homophobes and their [squints at smudged writing on hand] attraction to men with manly qualities!

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They also think you’re not really gay or not accepting of yourself if you’re not a stereotype.