all 72 comments

[–]theblackfleet 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hate that my sex is oppressed by males the world over, aside from a few matrifocal societies that are almost extinct. I wasn't assigned anything. I was IMPOSED upon with a sex role called femininity. These are all stereotypical behaviours and attitudes that were enforced by severe sanction if I violated them.

[–]worried19[S] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Imposed is a better word. Assigned makes it sound benign, but gender is oppression.

[–]worried19[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Natal sex: Not much, to be honest. Being of the female sex doesn't bother me. I'd like to have the physical strength of a man, but overall I'm happy with my body. I wish women did not have to be the ones to get pregnant, since it seems like such an unpleasant process, but I wouldn't say I hate it.

Gender: I hate absolutely everything associated with the female gender. Especially all of the horrible stereotypes implying that women are inherently weak, pathetic, overly emotional, passive, submissive fuck toys for men. It makes it really hard to tolerate being female in a society that thinks so little of you. I can't stand being thought of as inferior or having my morals and ethics impugned because I happened to get born with a certain set of genitals.

[–]Hepsibah44 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not fond of periods and cramps and that childbirth involves basically bowling ball sized beings coming out of the vagina (marsupials have it right). Hate that females are rarely the "neutral" in storytelling. So tired of stereotyped femininity.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Stereotyped femininity is my number one hated thing. I'll never understand how anyone can like it.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hate that my sex is oppressed. I hate that gender is the tool to oppress us.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Amen to both of those.

[–]questioningtw 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sex: Thanks for making us physically weaker evolution! If there was a pill that allowed me to develop muscles like a man without health and other masculinizing side effects, I would be taking it.

Gender: being part of the gender that pretty much everyone considers inferior. People thinking women should be happy to be doing constant domestic work and childcare.

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I count myself lucky to be 6'1" and strong, but it still sucks to be weaker in comparison to men. Like yeah, I'm strong for a woman, but it's not like I can compete with male athletes in the NBA or NFL.

[–]Seahorse 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep.

I'd be on the roids if they didn't have side effects 🤣

[–]Spikygrasspod 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Sex: being weaker and having trouble getting bench gainz, obviously.

Gender: men talking over me, men thinking I'm stupid because they didn't let me speak, and me knowing being sexually assaulted is always a possibility. So uh, I don't hate my gender, I hate theirs.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't hate my gender, I hate theirs.

That's a good point. The main negatives are dealing with what masculinity tells men to think about us.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So uh, I don't hate my gender, I hate theirs.

That’s a really insightful way of thinking about it.

[–]DistantGlimmer 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don't care about being male. It's just a neutral thing.

But I absolutely hate masculinity I hate the horrible oppressive violent borderline psychopathic behavior masculinity encourages in men. I believe you can absolutely look at it in a way that most of the problems in the world are caused by bad displays of masculinity and of course the way women and girls are victimized by masculinity all over the world s absolutely awful. I'm just thankful we do at least have an option to try to not conform to masculinity in our own lives (although the insidious socialization is very powerful).

I know some people will say there are some positive aspects to it too but I really think they are completely dwarfed by all the negatives we need to just throw the whole thing out.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's funny how different people's perspectives can be because I see more positives associated with masculinity. Yeah, the association with violence is not good, but there's also heroism and protectiveness associated with it. A man can be a hero. A woman can never be heroic, not truly. We're always seen as lesser no matter what. Doomed to be the saved and not the saviors.

[–]DistantGlimmer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We're always seen as lesser no matter what

But it's masculine men who impose that idea on you. I see plenty of women as heroic and while men can also be heroic I think they would do it by defying gender stereotypes. A lot of the men portrayed as heroes in popular culture are actually not very heroic by any decent moral standard in my opinion.

I know you get angry at women who don't stand up to misogyny but there's a real social cost for them to do that so I do sympathize with them more. Just look at what happens to women who stand up for their rights in this whole debate about gender. It would be so much easier for men to just treat women and girls better and be less misogynistic but most just don't because masculinity teaches us we don't have to empathize with women really.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of the men portrayed as heroes in popular culture are actually not very heroic by any decent moral standard in my opinion.

Hear, hear.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

hate the horrible oppressive violent borderline psychopathic behavior masculinity encourages in men

What do you think can be done to heal men from this collectively? This is what I want men to write about. You can all "as a man" me on this topic all day.

to try to not conform to masculinity in our own lives

What are your tools? Do you ever discuss them with other men?

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've sometimes tried to discuss it with other men. Most are not open to it from other men any more than they are from women. Maybe I could do more. I don't know. I'm certainly not a good speaker or writer or anything but I certainly have noticed a reluctance on the part of most other men to be critical of their own behavior influenced by masculinity and patriarchy.

I try not to "as a man..." to any woman about these type of subjects because I feel we should be listening to women and women's experiences and I think that is the best tool we have to overcome the destructive (to ourselves as well as others) impulses of our own socialization. But it is hard. Radical feminism has a great critique of masculinity but I'm sure you know that most men are extremely defensive about it and it doesn't really matter in my experience if a woman or a man is the messenger.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You underestimate your writing.

I'm glad when anyone reads radical feminism; I'm sure it teaches men a lot about the experience of women and peripherally about themselves. But it's just not the same. Do you have books you can pull on to live, page by page with the author, the deconstruction of his psyche? To relive how you learned history, religion, your place in the world through your own body? Books that give words to all the childhood memories, somatic experiences, haunting feelings you thought could never be expressed? Books full of words invented just to name these unspoken things? Books that make you scream or weep with recognition? . . . I have thousands. I will never be able to read them all. How many exist for men?

Of course I'm not in the "patriarchy is just as bad for men as women" camp; simplifications are distractions and it's exhausting how men use women's honest efforts to understand them as an excuse. But the fact is that socialization into patriarchal masculinity is a traumatizing process; I also believe being an oppressor is deeply traumatizing. And until men are engaging with feminism on that level, we cannot get anywhere. You all need the books and lectures and concerts and trauma-sensitive yoga classes and specialized therapy sessions and ancestral healing workshops just as much, but tailored to your wounds. It doesn't matter how enlightened women become if men remain too terrified to say one vulnerable thing, to shift their rigid postures a centimeter.

And I'm frightened with how little men say of anything.

and it doesn't really matter in my experience if a woman or a man is the messenger

Yeah, see above. So what now?

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the kind words. I have come to deeply care about these issues so perhaps that at least comes through in my writing. I totally agree with you that I will never be able to understand a woman's experience and I'd never claim that. I do believe I can empathize with women because of shared humanity but I also see my role in spaces like this and feminist spaces in general as being to learn from and support you and amplify the voices of women . I've said before in the old sub that I would like men to have our own movement adjacent to feminism against patriarchy. There is absolutely a need for that but outside of a couple of authors it doesn't really exist that I know of.

Absolutely men and males are not the main victims of patriarchy although especially those of us who are GNC can be marginalized by it. I really would like to see more men actually question the construct of gender the way feminists suggest. Unfortunately, this "intersectional" third wave doctrine which tells men that feminism should center our needs too is going to appeal to more men than forcing us to face hard truths about ourselves and question our role in an oppressive system of patriarchy. I'm really not sure how to get around that.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The oppression that comes along with being female.

Wasn’t assigned a gender, and don’t own one. Seems like as much commitment as a high-needs dog.

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ha, I would compare gender to a needy and insecure chihuahua.

[–]Lapis_Lazuli 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Chihuahuas can be cute, though.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel like if I answer this it will just be a description of growing up as a feminine boy with dysphoria. It makes me feel sad to write about that and I’m not really sure if it tells anyone anything they wouldn’t already know or assume.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Understandable. No need to rehash all that.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Natal sex: nothing to hate. Here I am with this female body, and it's my body, it gets me through life. Not a hate, but I really dislike the hormonally-driven joint hypermobility and degeneration tendency in women. Screw that, I could do without it.

Gender: What's to like? I've been fairly GNC since birth, and the only thing that saved my sanity was my parents allowing me to be a full-out tomboy. My in-family socialization wasn't too bad, tbh. Extra-family socialization sucked in all the ways that gender stereotyping sucks. I just bulldozed through it, because I didn't see any other options, and I grew up in a society that wouldn't outright disown or disappear me for it, thankfully.

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same regarding gender. I count my blessings I grew up in a family that allowed me to be GNC. I really doubt I would have survived to adulthood if they hadn't. Certainly not in my current form.

[–]SnowAssMan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Natal" is redundant, since your natal sex is the same as your current & future sex.

I don't think masculinity exists, so...

[–]Iced_Iced_Vovo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I loathe that people try to put gender expectations on me at all.

I personally don't think I was assigned a gender, I think society has tried (gender expectations/socialisation) but as I understand gender is made up stereotypes it's less effective?

But things I loathe about gender roles for females is definitely the expectation I will clean stuff up. Hate that

[–]uwubunny 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

What if we don't accept the premise that we're assigned anything?

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

We're not assigned a sex, but we are assigned a gender. Do you disagree?

[–]uwubunny 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

I do disagree. I don't think anyone can define "gender", or say what "the genders" are without creating circularities, and I don't think we're assigned anything.

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Would you agree that we are assigned gender roles and gender stereotypes depending on our sex?

That's how I was defining "gender."

[–]uwubunny 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Could you give an example?

People use "gender" as a euphemism for sex. You fill in a form that says gender, you reply male or female.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

If you are male, then there are certain roles, expectations, and stereotypes that you are expected to fulfill because you were born with XY chromosomes and a penis.

"Boys don't cry" is a good example. I'm speaking of gender the social construct in GC terms.

[–]uwubunny 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Even if we're dealing in stereotypes peculiar to white American culture, men aren't thought of as odd for crying when their football teams win or in other intense situations.

How do you know that isn't just the way that men tend to be? There are plenty of reports that when men transition and take estrogen they tend to cry a lot more.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

If you don't believe there are gender stereotypes associated with being of the male sex, then I suppose this question doesn't apply to you.

[–]uwubunny 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Sure there are sex stereotypes, but my point is that they're largely accurate and don't seem to be heavily enforced. I've been to school. I don't remember the boys having classes on how to be violent, or anything. I'm sure we would have noticed.

It might be that the enforcement is the other way around. Maybe part of the way adults bring kids up is trying to make boys less boy-like. Children are pretty nasty selfish creatures by default.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Then I guess that's your answer. You don't hate any of the sex stereotypes associated with being male.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Sex; What's not to hate. Sure the first few years weren't that bad, albeit having a dick was kind of weird from the beginning. But when puberty hit. That was a fun time. Slowly turning into an ugly ape. Seeing how your body slowly morphs into the wrong thing and only having daydreams to fall back to. Strength was nice but definitely not worth it. Not having periods and not getting pregnant is quite nice thou. At least for me and my current lifestyle.

Gender [I assume you mean roles, since you are GC and that's the way others answered] I personally don't have that much experience with gender. Not because I lived a live shielded from it. But when masculinity was running up the stairs to get me, religion had already crashed through the window and got me in a choke hold. That's why its hard for me to tell wether the toxic stuff I experienced was religion or masculinity. But now that I got out of that shit show and started to reintegrate into secular society I think it's disgusting. The way most men talk about women and objectify them makes me wanna throw up at times. How easily they dismiss women. And how you're expected to just go along with this stuff.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's why its hard for me to tell wether the toxic stuff I experienced was religion or masculinity.

Aaaah. Two great tastes that taste great together. /s

That's a very hard entanglement.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Was that your earliest sign of dysphoria, that you felt weird having a penis?

I feel you about religion and toxic gender roles. I was lucky that my parents were not that religious, but Christianity plus gender is a rigid box within a rigid box. Secular society is better, but not by that much. Have you ever had any experience with men outside of toxic masculinity? Not all men are terrible. I was lucky to know decent men growing up.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Honestly yes. It just felt weird that it was there. Like it wasn't part of me and did not belong there. Yet it was still attached and that just weirded me out. I did not think much of it until I learned about sex in elementary. Yet one of my earliest daydreams was that I had the ability to just swap it out, which in my childish imagination would make me female. God it's hard to remember that.

Christians are a completely different kind of toxic to be honest. And yes not all men are horrible. After leaving religion I joined the far left and have been active in Antifa for quite a while now [yes I know I'm pretty much a stereotype at this point.] Toxicity is rampant there as well, but far less than in the conservative youth I also was in at the time. I met a few great people in Antifa. But before that I was so deep in that cult, that I can count the great men I met on one hand. Thou it didn't feel like that at the time.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

[yes I know I'm pretty much a stereotype at this point.]

I get the self-deprecating humor, but I'm gonna go with no, not a stereotype, because (to borrow the words of a friend) you're taking consciousness of yourself and your situation, not just pinballing reactively from extreme to extreme. That's pretty hard to do, the gaining-and-maintaining consciousness bit.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't hate anything about my sex; I would choose it a million times over. I couldn't name everything I hate about patriarchal gender roles, but what comes to mind first is how women are supposed to hide menstrutation. The most quintessentially "feminine" thing is considered unfeminine in this upside-down world. Living that lie warps everything.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hate being female-- probably as much as any transman would.

I hate being short, hate being weak, hate being more vulnerable to rapists/attackers (it's so easy for a man to do, it's ridiculous), hate being prone to body-fat gain, hate periods. I despise my skin (acne in adulthood more common in women), hate the accompanying gastro-intestinal problems that coincide with menstruation, hate the autoimmune diseases that are often found in women, hate the fact it is probable that I will get Alzheimers or some systemic disease when I'm older and still hang on for YEARS until finally dying (as is common in women). Men generally seem to get "lucky" in that they get sick and die quickly. Women tend to get tortured with more sick years, and often are impoverished in old age as well. There's so much to being female that is so wrong that I almost believe there is a god-- and he's a raging narcissistic psychopath who hates women.

Periods themselves-- now mine is OK compared to most women's. I exercise a lot, which I think helps. Regardless, I know so many women who have issues with nonstop bleeding, menstrual migraines, endometriosis, PCOS, etc, it's not even funny. And when these same women go to the doctor, they get dismissed and told to take an antidepressant. This is one reason why I am puzzled at self-ID laws. Why would a man want present himself as a woman when he has a health issue-- only to be dismissed by the physician? That's what doctors do to many women-- they ignore their complaints until they become so advanced that extreme measures are needed.

None of the bad aspects of being female can be wiped away via some self-imposed re-gendering of oneself. A man can still rape and impregnate a pre-surgical "transman". Calling oneself "trans" doesn't wipe away a born-females disadvantages, just as calling oneself "trans" as a bio-male doesn't wipe away one's male advantages.

I hate the fact I was born into a family that hates females.

Childbirth was meh, surprisingly not as bad in itself as most people experience it. I'm assuming I'm an outlier. Had very few complications from pregnancy, child was healthy, my mood was pretty good all things considered, had no problems nursing.

Having a child, however, is a total life destroyer for a woman in terms of upward mobility, education, economic opportunities. Friends, partners, family don't help when it comes to bettering yourself-- if anything, people use your motherhood to whip you "back in your place". "How could you be so SELFISH and leave your precious BABY to consider go back to SCHOOL/to work longer hours/to seek a promotion, you selfish horrible woman!"-- that kind of bullshit. That "motherhood" crap is a huge weight that pushes you into the ground. Family likes to hoover and dictate and smother and criticize and ridicule mothers. Loving my kid doesn't change the reality that motherhood is a burden that destroys women's lives unless they already make bank or have plenty of "fuck you" money lying around. No one will ever change my mind about that.

If I could turn back time and be born a male, with all the associated privileges that they often don't even recognize they possess, I would do it in a heartbeat... but I'm a realist. That's not possible. I also know full transition isn't possible. I know that anatomy isn't something to mess about with. Hormone treatments I've had via birth control pills and a brief stint on topical estrogen wrecked me... I had nothing but bad side effects. Steroids I've taken for skin related problems or post pneumonia also messed me up. Many people simply can't handle synthetic hormones without bad side effects. Science doesn't have the ability to change chromosomes, to make one grow to male height, to surgically implant a realistic penis. Surgical interventions in themselves are risky and open up the possibility of scarring, fistulas, infection, sepsis.

[–]Stormweather 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel the same. Wish I would have been born male. Also, this is the reason, why I don't want to have kids. Good thing that I don't live in some shithole country where women are forced to marry and bear children. I would have killed myself before I reached 16 years if that would be the case.

[–]LasagnaRossa 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Natal sex: I hate the fact my body is designed to get cramps and mood swings each month, and I hate the whole pregnancy process.

Gender: Fortunately I have not been discriminated for my sex and I've been raised up pretty genderless. My only expectation is to birth children one day, but nobody is actively pushing me.

[–]Seahorse 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Periods - I'm not going to have children with this body I don't think so I'd like to just retire my periods instead of waiting another 30 years 🤣

I don't like how hard it is to gain muscle.

I hate that I'm expected to be feminine, not in every day but the expectation of feminity to "events". Also the level of fuss made when I do - Almost EXCLUSIVELY made by other women.

I don't know what it is with that but my non conformity has never bothered my male family and friends as much as their female counterparts.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like adult women are the ones who care about indoctrinating girls into femininity. If it were left to men, most of them wouldn't bother. Women are the ones who keep girls' hair long and make them wear dresses and teach them about makeup.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

assigned

That is woke people word for gender.

I was born a female because I have xx chromosomes.

I hate nothing about my natal sex.

Do I wish male privilege did not exist? Yes.