Which of the 7 deadly sins do you think is the worst and why?

submitted by goobandit from self.AskSaidIt

all 49 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]Antarchomachus 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

I'd have to go with greed here.

Greed makes people do terrible things, and some of the other 'deadly sins' just seem less bad.

Pride: Can be a good thing too, would not say greed is ever really 'good'

Lust: Not really so bad, we need to procreate after all

Wrath: Maybe they deserved it

Gluttony: Greed applied only to food?

Envy: Circumstantial greed?

Sloth: Laziness seems less harmful than greed in terms of the world's problems

[–]FlippyKing 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Sloth can lead to many of the others, it is like a breeding ground for them.

Lust has to do with the utilitarian aspects of sex and viewing others as objects and putting the "thinking" of our genitals on par with what should be our higher faculties, even when in love with each other. It is like greed. I do not see a way around experiencing lust on some level, but I can accept that a disordered view of the world, being in a world that has fully embraced many disordered things for longer than any civilization has been around (ie the fall of man and original sin and all that), makes it almost as difficult not be tempted by lust as it is to eat without tasting. Lust is also why there are some friends you might want to keep away from your sister, or why your friends keep you away from their sisters, or why women are uncomfortable around creeps. It extends far beyond just being, as Van Halen sang, hot for teacher.

Gluttony I think is a disordered view of pleasures, not just food. I like the taste of cheese cake, but I can't imagine having one bite, enjoying it sufficiently and being done. But, if I really savor that one bite and do not swallow it very quickly, maybe I could? I think it is like not putting pleasures (which I think these all would be "carnal" pleasures in the generic sense where carnal was not just about sex) in their proper perspective.

I don't see envy just as circumstantial greed. I particularly do not like envy because I see it as lacking imagination. Someone has something. So what? Why is that what anyone is thinking about. If I want something, I should strive for it. If someone else has something I should be happy for them if it is good. To see someone else having something and then saying "I want that" seems sad on two levels maybe. But there are a few bad assumptions involved in it. Why assume the person is befitting from having the thing? Maybe, but maybe not. Why does the envious person assume the benefit presumed to be gained from the thing would be one the envious person can gain. Also, do any minuses ever exist in an envious view of things? Like, should I envy a really nice samurai sword? No. I don't know how to use one. It would be a waste. Envy some other guy's girlfriend? Like how many ways can that go wrong? Also, there are other women. I don't think anyone characterizes it this way, but I really find envy to be so lacking in imagination that it --- might not be the worst but --- is maybe the figuratively worst one for being so pathetic.

Wrath might be a sin because vengeance is mine saith the Lord. It's not if they deserve it or not, but who gets to dish it out. But if we want to be wrathful we might be seen by God to say "I'm OK with you being wrathful to me God". That's why the prayer goes "forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us" and Our Lady of Cuapa tells us to make peace but not to pray for peace without making it ourselves first. https://saidit.net/s/Hail_Mary/comments/8v4i/our_lady_of_cuapa/

I have wanted to do a deep dive into the vices and the virtues. I think it is somewhat incomplete, or perhaps less fully functional or useful, to look at the sins without also looking at passions, vices, and virtues. A lot of the "patristic" fathers wrote about the passions, the distractions and feelings that come over us seemingly from with in. Even when it seems to come from "without", like when the guys from Van Halen are looking at the teacher they get hot for, it is from within and "passively" takes over their thoughts. So, the passions are tied to the vices which are tied to the sins in very practical ways. But, the passions can also be redirected, and the passions are considered by these early church fathers to be disordered virtuous things (this ties it all back to the fall and original sin). One (Saint Maximus the Confessor I believe) said Vices start where virtues are blocked. Not, like forgotten or anything but blocked. So, when we have someone who is denied a pursuit of a virtue or of a virtuous activity, then vices can flourish. Envy, as pathetic as I find it, can easily (even legitimately) be seen as coming from this kind of thing.

[–]Antarchomachus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Don't disagree with you at all, I wasn't trying to say that these other sins were not bad, just that I see Greed to be more harmful in comparison, although I share the view that perhaps envy is more morally contemptible than greed (wanting just because someone else has something seems worse than just wanting it for its own sake), I just think Greed for its own sake is implicated in more societal harms

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I appreciated reading your perspective on them. I didn't post in disagreement (even if I used that word, which I don't recall as I used so many) but more to like add my own ideas to the pot to be stirred around. I agree greed sucks badly, so I hope I wasn't letting it off easy. Also, my seeing envy as more pathetic or "figuratively" the worst one due to lack of imagination is probably not the best criteria. It's like especially condemning derivative serial killers over original ones.

[–]Antarchomachus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, not at all, didn't interpret you as disagreeing, just wanted to make I wasn't being interpreted as ignoring the harms of other immoral behavior

[–]FlippyKing 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

excellent! We are agreed: bad behavior sucks.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Nice. This is the most academic usage of Van Halen ever.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Lust is fucking your neighbor's wife. Probably had more of a property crime element to it back in the day too.

[–]Antarchomachus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ahh theres a specific context for biblical Lust, that makes sense. Thanks for pointing that out, I was thinking of the colloquial usage

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I think envy is worse, not really the same as greed. Like if someone wants a lot of money and works hard for it then gets it and then doesn't spend much cuz they love it, ok fine, but envy would lead them to wanting to take from others.

[–]Antarchomachus 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This is a solid argument Popper, I hadn't really thought of it like that.

[–]Tiwaking 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Popper 2 insightful - 0 fun - an hour ago I think envy is worse, not really the same as greed. Like if someone wants a lot of money and works hard for it then gets it and then doesn't spend much cuz they love it, ok fine, but envy would lead them to wanting to take from others.

Envy is a good choice. Envy and Pride drove Cain to kill Abel.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I support this claim. And his rationalisations of it.

Secret: They are all equal.

E.G. "Lust" can mark you as an collaborator and as such: be equally deadly.

[–]antares 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The deadly sins make cool anime characters. But a few of them overlap and generally relate to a lack of self-control. There is nothing inherently wrong with eating ("gluttony") or having sex ("lust"), but either taken to extremes is a detriment to oneself or society.

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Sealioning, shilling, and lying.

[–]goobandit[S] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

If these are Jason’s three cardinal sins, what would their three corresponding virtues be?

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

1) Skeptical free-thinking and truth-seeking.

2) Finding or developing and sharing alternatives, solutions, and resistance to tyranny.

3) Messing up the establishment with style.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Pride. It is a human fallacy to think that I am better than other people. It’s a weakness. It allows humans to do horrible things.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The deadliest one.

[–]Antarchomachus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Wouldn't argue that beliefs such as these have led humans to do terrible things.

As far as the fallacy of superiority goes, maybe you are right, but I would not be so quick to reach this conclusion. I think the acknowledgement that some behaviors are 'sinful' makes room for the argument that one individual is 'morally superior' to another. E.g., if I had to choose between saving 3 'good' people, or 4 psychopath child rapists, I'd probably choose the 3 'good' people and feel OK about this. I think it's hard to make a case for not making value judgements when we are talking about values, I would need a very strong argument presented to me to reach the same conclusion as you on this.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

My strong argument is your response.

[–]Antarchomachus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Nevermind, clearly I was an idiot for thinking I could have a nuanced philosophical conversation with someone named FuckYourMom

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Your pride tricked you. You are not better than anyone else. No matter how eloquently you attempt to write.

[–]Antarchomachus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I didn't mean to imply I thought I was better than you, but I did let my frustration get the better of me, so I apologize.

I am honestly just trying to understand your point of view. It sounds to me like no matter how terrible or bad somebody is, you would not say even a 'great' or incredibly moral person was 'better' than them. I can respect that belief, but I just don't fully understand your position and was hoping you would explain it to me.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You can not like some one. You can be smarter. You can be more athletic. You might not do drugs. You may not use hookers. You may be a good parent. I can go on. But I think you can understand that above.

Pride is the feeling that you are superior to another person. It is not respecting a persons autonomy. Like you are more human. Or your thoughts matter more. Or for some reason you have the right over another person. Maybe because they have no agency.

This is pride. It is a normal human emotion. We all have had it. I am particularly prideful. This character trait is particularly harmful if a person gains any kind of power.

It’s the kind of thing that leads to the holocaust, or the ruwandan genocide, or Pole Pot, or Mao.

This feeing of I’m right, you are not because I am better; that is pride.

It almost ALWAYS leads humans to bad places. It is a position only a god should have.

It is dangerous, because it makes sense. But you should almost always try to make a decision about you, or your child, or for other people with pridefulness in mind.

Always recognize your pride. And always accept modesty. And always recognize that we are all living the human experience. Each one of our experiences is different. And you may be a better person. But don’t loose sight of humanity.

You can be better than other people in this life, and not fall into the fallacy of pride.

And this doesn’t mean you have to befriend or take in drug addicts.

The left is suffering from the most extreme form of pride. They are staring down the barrel of communism. We are right next to concentration camps, no more grocery stores, food lines, and the destruction of the USA.

ALL BECAUSE OF PRIDE.

You can argue about the semantics of the other sins. But for humanity, pride is the most dangerous. It kills the most people.

[–]Antarchomachus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for the explanation, I completely understand what you are saying now. No matter what a person does, it doesn't give you a right to treat them like a sub-human, totally agree. Also agree that most of the historical tyrants seem to justify their actions in this way.

You make a very strong case that this is just as bad as greed, if not worse.

Again, thanks for taking the time to explain your position, I wasn't really thinking of lack of freedom, domination and dehumanization as specifically being caused by Pride, but you are absolutely right.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Welcome man. I’m always happy to talk. You make a good point about pedofiles, or maybe murders. Maybe they are not sub human. But sometimes you have to take a human out of society because they are a danger to others.

[–]Antarchomachus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What you said about dehumanizing really resonated with me. I remember reading about some of the Guantanamo prisoners were force fed anally as some sort of punishment. I don't care how bad some terrorist is, that is fucking disgusting and monstrously dehumanizing, and you are right that feeling 'better' than someone is the only way something like this could happen.

Honestly, I have often felt morally superior to people who do terrible things, and I didn't really see the danger in this, but I think I was lying to myself. I personally don't think I could ever be monster like some of our historical tyrants, are the Guantanamo guards, but I'll admit that I have wished vaccine injuries on people who have mocked me for remaining unvaccinated (maybe more like Wrath, but I think Wrath may often come from a place of Pride as you say), and see that justifying this type of thinking is a slippery and dangerous slope.

Always a good discussion when you are forced to more carefully examine your beliefs, appreciate you taking the time to converse with me

[–]soundsituation 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with u/Antarchomachus' choice as well as their reasoning. Of these seven, greed causes the most problems for the most people.

I don't think any of these are that bad on their own, though; they can simply be passing emotions that we choose not to overindulge. The real issue is becoming consumed by them. So I guess I think the worst "sin" is something like a lack of temperance.

[–]Antarchomachus 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, taken as a whole, many of these sins are essentially a failure to exercise moderation

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I would say wrath is the worst one. The others can still be sort of ok and not too bad. But add wrath to each of them and you get stupid decisions made from anger and a lot of violence and blood.

Wrath is not just about revenge, it's pure anger. It's a hard to control emotion that dulls intelligence and empathy.

[–]Antarchomachus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Wrath is not just about revenge, it's pure anger. It's a hard to control emotion that dulls intelligence and empathy.

I actually agree with this, but since this is a biblical inspired conversation, how do we rationalize that God himself is often wrathful, but he isn't say, slothful?

I interpret this as meaning that God's wrath is 'righteous' and therefore not sinful (as per Judeo-Christian ethos anyway) in this circumstance, and the people who wrote these stories perhaps showed that they don't feel as if wrath isn't as bad as slothfulness in the case that it is righteous.

Just playing Devil's advocate, I don't actually believe in any of this (I'm an atheist), but my beliefs aren't relevant. I am more interested in how humanity views morality, and how these beliefs reflect that

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

We don't know if god is angry and he probably isn't. It's called the wrath of God because it negatively impacts us but really its just consequences of our actions. Like a parent punishing his children when they were naughty.

I'm not religious either but I did go to catholic school.

[–]Antarchomachus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Interesting take Coffee, thank you, I hadn't thought of this angle. In the Noah's Ark story, god doesn't seem 'angry', he is actually kind of detached about how he does this. Kind of like he's just cleaning up an experiment that went wrong or something. But other times, God is definitely at least portrayed as angry. I think in particular of the story of Moses in the desert, when the people start worshipping the Golden Calf.

The LORD is angry (32:7-10). They have broken fealty with him, and he is ready to rain judgment upon them. Moses, however, intercedes, and God relents from his wrath (32:11-14).

This particular subject just makes me curious about what the message is

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think there the message is not that god is angry, again we dont know for sure. But we know Moses talked to him to ask him to give his people a second chance and god gave him those tablets with his words. God is mercyful and kind.

Is god an emotional child playing with an antfarm or a higher being curious about our actions like he's watching tv. All we know is on occasion he likes to mess with us.

[–]Antarchomachus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed! Awfully hard to decipher the motivations and mental state of an all powerful God.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Apathy... so maybe sloth? On prison planet, apathy leads to servitude and death. Something has dominion here.

[–]fschmidt 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not apathy, just pure sloth. In modern culture, everyone has an opinion that they believe in, and they don't do a damn thing about it (unless Soros pays them).

[–]Foidblaster9000 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Greed drives the others, it's the drive for excess of something.

[–]Tiwaking 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Foidblaster9000 2 insightful - 1 fun - an hour ago Greed drives the others, it's the drive for excess of something.

Greed is what I think is the worst too

[–]RichardMNixon 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gluttony is by far the worst. It turns you into a fatty and fatties are not human.

[–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Wrath, because all the others are usually possible for others to avoid, because they don't usually involve force.

[–]antares 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think the world is feeling the worst effects of greed and lust. Just imagine how much better the world would be if pornography consumption was reduced and if it wasn't so easy for kids to find it.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So? Fill us in on your ideas, if you can.

[–]antares 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think many people are familiar with the pursuit of money and profits in the absence or abandonment of morals and principles. If American corporations chosen principles (freedom of speech) over profits, there wouldn't be the issue of internet censorship. If bio/medical corporations were firstly concerned with the health of their patients rather than acquiring new patients, there wouldn't be the epidemics of myopia, transsexualism, and covid.

Lust is harder to explain and a lot of it is from personal observation of other people. Pornography addiction can cause serious delusion. I don't know what is going on in people's heads when it happens. I blame it for the incel, coomer, and trans[gender/sexual] phenomenon. A minor can have an innocent interest in cartoon anthro characters or fanfiction, and that is a few clicks away from extreme content that portrays abusive relationships or sexual violence as arousing; or anatomically impossible fantasies, upon which an obsession may develop and can lead someone to try emulating that at the expense of their health (futanari and self-described "dickgirls").

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I respect you. Especially the "soundness" of your arguments, which ain't nothing as delusional, as mine, but also you way of explaining them. Without sarcasm or cynicism i can see no reasonable reason to fight them. Kudos.

[–]HibikiBlack 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would say Lust and Greed. People can really be possessed by their desires to the point that they become cold-blooded and ruthless.

[–]iDontShift 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

they all lead to pain and suffering for you

allowing these to lead your life will always bear but bad fruit

[–]tyranicaloverlord 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We have to choose one? I see it every day, on tv, and very so much from our youth. Greed and Envy.

Our youth have been brainwashed, or tricked, to be so envious of others wealth they get greedy and need to take it and give it to themselves.