What is your opinion of the so-called Health Goth fashion trend?

Airbus320 · 2020-11-15T10:30:14+00:00

😮

JasonCarswell · 2020-10-07T21:09:22+00:00

I like anything from normies to freaks - as long as they are fine and/or do their thing well. Mediocre is mediocre.

ISaidWhatISaid · 2020-10-07T19:41:47+00:00

She's a very good model. All her shoots are very impressive but it's usually very normie fashion, not strange fashion like in this shoot.

JasonCarswell · 2020-10-07T19:40:01+00:00

Fun shots. At least it's not bi-genders.

ISaidWhatISaid · 2020-10-07T19:37:14+00:00

This is from the same series and is probably one of her most shared shots online.

Comatoast · 2020-08-07T22:05:56+00:00

I was slightly disappointed when I found out that it wasn't related, I'll admit. I found out more about the Bohemian Grove lore though, and a stream of different neat shit after. I also found out that the book that The Wickerman is based off of is a difficult read and I (a person that could usually eat books in a day) haven't been able to fucking finish it.

You should probably work on that deal though.

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-07T20:55:19+00:00

Many people think Burning Man was inspired by Wicker Man but all the founders refute that. The original figure was only 10 ft tall and every year got bigger until it was not only comparable in size but larger than the Wicker Man. Many have said that it was an effigy of an exes new boyfriend but that's false too. It just was a simple bonfire more interesting than a pile. In Canada we've burned wood moose statues but that doesn't mean we worship Baal. Unless I got duped... Maybe I should ask for a refund or a better deal with the devil...

We also built large structures in the desert to eventually burn them. So far I haven't heard any comparisons to police stations or other burning buildings.

Comatoast · 2020-08-07T19:55:51+00:00

Fun story, I actually found information on the symposium after watching The Wicker Man and going down an adhd fueled rabbithole. I wanted to know more about possible rituals historically and modern that burned human effigies. Of course that led into some fun conspiracy theory stuff, but it also led to Burning Man and eventually the Viridis Genii symposium. I already had a massive interest in herbs, baneful and healing, so finding it was almost poetic.

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-07T16:47:52+00:00

" About Viridis Genii
The Viridis Genii symposium is an exploration of the greater mysteries of the Herbal Arte and how it manifests itself within all traditions, cultures and practices –the Craft of the Wise. Our desire is to move beyond the mundane and explore those mysteries in greater depth, fostering an environment where the green mysteries thrive, nourish and become one. "

Sounds interesting. I can guarantee you that you'd find at least as many Burners into that, including my ex, a Naturopathic Doctor, though they may not all organize and meet at Burning Man. The Burning Man community exists year round and does much besides the event with many overlapping circles of interest, though of course some people only do the event. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Viridis group attends.

Comatoast · 2020-08-07T16:22:37+00:00

That's sort of understandable.

As far as really fucking cool events go, I've wanted to go to this since it's inception. Have you heard of it or considered events like this? : https://www.viridisgenii.com

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-07T15:43:50+00:00

I can't speak to other events like the Rainbow Gathering, but it was illegal to have open sex at Burning Man, and often enough in the day or at night stupid people got busted for it.

Comatoast · 2020-08-07T03:21:54+00:00

Eeewwwwwwwww.

Jokes aside, I won't argue that the premise of the event sounds pretty great, mostly the natural medicine area--which I would be all the fuck over. The promiscuous sex part squicks me out though, man. I'm monogamous and married normalfilth, but not sexless thankfully.

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-07T01:45:16+00:00

LOLOLOLOL

I used to host orgies at Burning Man. Good times. Caught nothing.

Not all "gathering[s] of people out in nature" are the same. (ie. Classical music in the park.)

Unless you are the greatest alpha male or female, or are married, and/or are a killer swinger, everyone else SEEMS to be having more sex than you. If that's not a maxim it should be.

Comatoast · 2020-08-07T00:48:58+00:00

I can't imagine a gathering of people out in nature to not have copious sex.

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-06T23:14:32+00:00

STDs?

Comatoast · 2020-08-06T22:53:40+00:00

Eh, the food is similar.. or the turkey legs anyway. Super tasty.

I looked it up a second ago in between browsing. To be fair, the STDs are probably airborne within a small radius outside of the gathering area.

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-06T22:41:26+00:00

I went to a Medieval Times in Toronto for my 31st birthday I think. Interesting I guess, predictable, not something I would do again.

I've been to 10 Burning Man and countless regional Burner events. Love them. There I heard about other things like Rainbow Gatherings and other hippie festivals. I can't say if I'd like them or not - and of course each event is unique

" Rainbow Gatherings are temporary, loosely knit communities of people, who congregate in remote forests around the world for one or more weeks at a time with the stated intention of living a shared ideology of peace, harmony, freedom, and respect. " ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Gathering

Comatoast · 2020-08-06T22:23:39+00:00

Ren Faires are a lot of fun. I don't have a clue what rainbow gatherings are.

They're relatively inexpensive to get into though. Do you guys have a Medieval Times nearby?

JasonCarswell · 2020-08-06T20:42:21+00:00

I've been lucky enough to have done a lot of fun alternative things in my life. Rainbow Gatherings, Comicons, and Medieval Faires were not among them sadly. If I were a millionaire/thousandaire that would/might be different story.

ISaidWhatISaid · 2020-07-29T19:56:40+00:00

You're welcome. I hope you like the music, and again, by all means feel free to share whatever you want. Videos, music, pictures, stories, anything.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-29T19:02:40+00:00

Thanks! I like most kinds of goth. I have been meaning to add a bunch more alt subs into the sidebar, so thank you for the suggestion!

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-29T14:39:16+00:00

"Unfortunately most places of business are going to do whatever they can to exploit the system and make as much profit as possible. Donations by people who just want that shit out of their spaces makes it all the easier."

It's not just a place of business. It's a completely rigged and monopolized network that includes the charities' complicity. Further, they throw out most of it. It's actually obscene. And part of it is because our consumerist culture is focused and dependent upon the perpetual turn over of "disposable" goods. If we built things to last of quality then not only would consumption go down but so would poverty (and profits), and the environment would do better. But that's not what the corporatocracy wants.

Comatoast · 2020-07-29T14:25:28+00:00

Erf, yeah. I get it, I've got the nose of a bloodhound. It seems when I go into places where things are old there's like a miasma of dust, mildew, or in Goodwill there's an overwhelming smell of cheap laundry detergent that's strong enough to pierce whatever it is in the olfactory unit that instigates a sneeze.

I'll agree that it's a pain in the ass to pay taxes on purchases where taxes were already paid, but I go when there are 1/2 off tag sales.

Unfortunately most places of business are going to do whatever they can to exploit the system and make as much profit as possible. Donations by people who just want that shit out of their spaces makes it all the easier.

It's double sided tape, you're right. Peel n' Stick fabric fuse tape. Doesn't require ironing though. It might get fucked up in the sun though, no promises.

ISaidWhatISaid · 2020-07-29T14:03:31+00:00

If you prefer old school goth have a look at s/gothic I have been posting lots of old school songs/music videos there. Feel free to post your own music suggestions there so we can kickstart this sub again.

Comatoast · 2020-07-29T13:57:23+00:00

Yeah, this looks more like edgy fitness to me. I can't see how it's goth in any way.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-29T02:39:10+00:00

I love thrift/vintage/antique stores, however I have 4 big issues with them, in no particular order:

1) Occasionally, the smell.

2) Taxes. These things were already taxed. Why pay taxes again? SCAM!!! If anything they should be given Green tax rebates/credits or something.

3) There are some SERIOUS and under-reported second-hand monopolies in North American raking in MILLION$! It's a giant scam. All these big second hand stores have shitty lighting, are falling apart, etc etc etc but are raking it in. They get all the shit for free as donations - yet only give pennies on the dollar to whatever charity collected them (ie. Goodwill, Salvation Army, DiabetesForKids, etc) - BUT they never disclose the breakdown or info, certainly not on their websites. It's a fucking racket. Here in Windsor, Ontario (and in Vancouver, BC) one is called Value Village, but if I recall correctly, they and several other similar chains in the USA are owned by a single family.

4) If you want more of the same item you will never find it (ie. to find in your size, better quality, like it a lot, etc). It may have once been mass produced, but they're all essentially one of a kind for all intents and purposes.

Never heard of instant seam. Sounds like the thing I've been dreaming of. I'm picturing a double sided tape that you iron until it melts and permanently seals it until you forget that you can't iron it or leave it on your dashboard in the sun. Of course I'd have to buy an iron.

"Beadwork, fake herbs, yarn, resin, felt, craft foam, the world is your oyster."

Well, as a dude and not a fan of seafood, I'll pass. Though I do like a simple feather now and then. Or for Burning Man, a few pheasant pheathers in my cap.

Comatoast · 2020-07-29T01:51:30+00:00

You can always use clothes that you already have as a template too, it just might be a little tougher to get a good fit around your shoulders and chest. Thrift store shit is great for that too, since it's a lot less expensive and may not be a massive loss if you borked it. Don't forget about the instant seam tape as an option to at least temporarily hold a good seam. Beadwork, fake herbs, yarn, resin, felt, craft foam, the world is your oyster.

To be honest, there are some pretty great techniques that I've watched the guy on Black Magic(k?) Craft do with the little architectural creations he makes for his D&D nights. Some of it could be translated over into pretty interesting clothing, I'd wager.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-29T01:47:49+00:00

I resemble that remark.

Currently.

But seriously, men obviously don't have as much diversity as women do for fashion but seriously there is absolutely no limit to the potential. I think it's terribly limiting to portend there's only 5 and 3 options.

Take a square patch of scrap and a zipper, fold in half, sew up the sides, add the zipper to the top. Easy as heck!!! SUPER easy and cheap gifts for Xmas or whatever. Kids love secreting their things away. Dealing with fur is a little tricky, but the fur also covers up all your mistakes!

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-29T01:41:14+00:00

Thanks for the gear recommend!

I bet I would learn a lot from patterns but I thin I would likely just start by adding bonus stuff to extant things then gradually get more ambitious. Also I'd likely stay clear of anything "refined" and embrace my limits. If I were to make a janky shirt I'd do my best of course, but also add other janky things (ie. crooked pocket, rips, random stitches, safety pin(s), etc) to make it look intentional.

"Until anon."

Comatoast · 2020-07-29T01:29:09+00:00

I love Bernadette Banner. Her videos are very informative and extremely eloquent. Get a sewing machine though, and a serger if you can. I picked up a Brother CE7070PRW, and it's got 70 different stitch types. The serger is more to finish the edges on your projects, but it adds a lot of versatility to what you're able to do. There are free patterns available if you are feeling like going down the Pinterest rabbithole, but even getting a basic pattern (Hobby Lobby had them at $1.99/pattern a couple of weeks ago) and altering around it to get the look that you're wanting opens up a world of options.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-29T01:02:11+00:00

I remember finding out about "health goth" a few years ago and thinking it was kind of ridiculous. I think my main issue with it is the name, because I don't see anything healthy or gothic here. The only example out of yours that I think might be able to embody something more goth is this one..

All the others are just very basic sport styles, but in black. Black doesn't make something goth imo. Of course I am not even close to an authority on this but it just kind of rubs the wrong way, like the label doesn't fit. Unfortunately goth has been kind of taken and majorly watered down by the main stream these days.

Edge_Finder · 2020-07-25T17:46:16+00:00

as far as imo, i really dont care... dress how you want to. unless you like 12 year old girl in daisy dukes... exceptions... always is

Edge_Finder · 2020-07-25T17:42:27+00:00

that has been around forever, its more instrustial dance style

https://youtu.be/oZaF-ABKCwE

actually thats not a good example

here is better

https://youtu.be/cNAdtkSjSps

hennaojichan · 2020-07-23T00:03:20+00:00

If it weren't obvious enough that this is a man, the photographer zooms in on his hands. It's fine with me. In my residential area there are a couple of middle-aged men who dress in drag.

Catbug · 2020-07-22T23:33:24+00:00

It’s the best feeling when you put in something you’ve customised or made from scratch, hey. Menswear seems to be almost all the same five patterns for bottoms and three for tops.

The fur purses sound really fun.

ISaidWhatISaid · 2020-07-22T19:25:08+00:00

First of all, wow you actually knew him!

I knew him too, he's kinda hard to miss if you're following the gothic part of Youtube.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-22T16:56:01+00:00

I have read this before and absolutely love this essay! It explains so much of what happened or is happening with my favorite subcultures/hobbies/fashions. Look at how gothic influence is everywhere these days. High fashion brands that never used the aesthetic have been making some very goth shoes and pieces. Same goes with kawaii things now. On one hand it's kind of cool when your favorite stuff is suddenly everywhere and you don't need to search so hard for it. But on the other hand, it makes you wonder what happens when it goes out of trend. Something that is pretty timeless just got a timestamp placed on it.

For example Harajuku fashion styles have been around since decades ago. Then from the early 2000s they became a niche group in the west. Right now they are all the rage but suddenly something that was timeless because of how out of place it was everywhere became the 2010s fad. So if you got into it in 2000s and will still be in it way into the late 2020s you will now be labeled as stuck on 2010s.

Trajan · 2020-07-22T16:15:54+00:00

If something is really interesting, and particularly low-effort, you can't easily keep it to a small group. It's like any hobby or interest. Once it becomes noticed, whether you like it or not, it's pretty much game over for the die-hards. The fashion will be coopted, altered, and the sense of identity it used to have will be ruined. The lifestyle associated with the identity will be discarded, as all the larger group wants is to identify with the lifestyle either without living it or by living it in a sanitised way. Take hunting. You can go out actually hunt, or you can pay somebody to provide you a tamed animal that will be a nice easy shot taken from a comfortable and sheltered chair.

Here's a related article: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T18:49:22+00:00

I was a senior animator at Curious ?ictures under animation supervisor Boo Wong (real name), his baby's momma. Fuck! I just realized Mars must be 20 or more now! From what I saw in the video it doesn't look like he's aged a day in 20 years. Always so lucky. Though back then he was thinner and sexier with his carriage, IMO, perhaps more self conscious/reserved/aloof (but never stuck up).

I'm glad for his success, but I just never got into his music at all. Can you recommend some? Maybe something he's known for with something good that he's not known for. (Usually every artist has some hidden gems that are comparable if not better than what they're known for.)

Back then I didn't have a digital camera, or any camera. I borrowed to get those low-res images. I did the floor of our space in SF and made the back-lit bookshelf there by hand. A couple years later I saw similar smaller designs in mod furniture stores. I was pissed that others had come up with the same idea more or less, though theirs was only round like a slice through a sphere. I like my "pill" ovoid shape better. Opposite the floor were the ovoid valances (the flat things with my acanthus pattern) I mounted on concrete ceiling "beams" (the whole building was concrete, but these beams were lower). On either side of the beam I put a fluorescent tube that bounced off the ceiling and you couldn't see from the ground. We got more expensive warm light rather than hard bulbs - and for parties we'd swap them out with black lights. So obviously I brought everything but the floor back to Toronto. I had made a really nice nest there, though it didn't last long and in 2004 I moved back to NYC to animate there instead.

I was indeed ahead of the curve, and in some ways still am. Especially since then I don't think the curve has really moved much - and neither have the "normies". I've often wondered about that. Grampa still greases his hair like it's the 1950s. Hippies still dig grass. Rockers still feather their hair like it's 1977. Many goths stopped evolving when grunge moved in. Old school ravers, well, we evolved into Burners (Burning Man cybergoth/steampunk/tribalists), devolved into redundant dubstep, became over-glowsticked candy-club-kidiots, or grew up and rejoined "normie" life. After that, I feel like I've seen nothing interesting, other than some finessing of old things. I think the droopy pants skinny jeans looks like people are wearing loaded saggy diapers. It's like fashion has been eclipsed by gender shit. Or maybe like grampa, I'm stuck in my time and oblivious to the new "trends".

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T18:16:54+00:00

I didn't need an occasion to wear my alt stuff, but I did try not to wear out certain things, until they were too broken in to worry about, thereafter I'd just wear them all the time. I used to be far more active so there were usually at least 4 events a month to really get fancy for.

Burning Man politics was across the spectrum. Many folks came from SF and LA with a variety of views and of course a lot from the Reno area where it was held - but there also many of us from other countries (a lot from Canada) and of course NY, Florida, Texas, etc. Back then 1999-2008, there wasn't the insane division there is now, though there was a lot of anitwar art since the Iraq War was new and there was still a peace movement.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-21T18:10:06+00:00

First of all, wow you actually knew him! I have to admit I don't know much about him, other than the fact that I liked his music and my very goth friend showed me his Youtube a while ago. Having a very boring plain apartment at the time, it was definitely a cool thing to watch.

Second of all, I would never have guessed that cool backlit piece is from 2002! That is something that seems very in right now, so you were definitely far ahead of the curve. Now every youtuber is doing that whole backlit shelves thing.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-21T17:58:34+00:00

These are so cool! Honestly I would advocate for you wearing those every day. Or at least on weekends. Back before the corona days there were even alt fashion conventions and events you would have fit right into. I don't see why politics would be a problem thought. Most of my acquaintances in the alt fashion community are ultra woke (while im center). It's more about just finding an occasion or outlet a few days a month.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T09:55:52+00:00

Dorky.

He used to be much more... cool. I'm hoping that persona is only for that show and not something he's evolved into. I do like DIY and I do like some non-cheap non-tacky gothish stuff, but I couldn't watch that series if it's all corny like that. We used to have fun, but I don't remember being so cheesy. /s/Gothic/comments/trr/aurelio_voltaire/

I thought I was the only one who panted walls red. Actually I prefer burgundy. My place in San Francisco (2000-2002), Toronto 1 2 3 (2002-2004) and Oakland (2005-2007) and yellow, the floor is actually between blue and navy blue but in the photo it looks grey. (I forgot about that album! Here's me in costume on set for a bit part in the short I was directing.)

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T09:03:05+00:00

You do you. Some people do their fashion well, some don't. Some music is good (subjectively), and some isn't. Some is both, neither, or a combo. It's not dependent. Unless you say it is, to you.

TIL the diff between Goth and Gothic. I've always liked Goth but never fully embraced it, in part or in whole, largely due to a limited budget and sooooo many other genres to also embrace. I feel like I kinda missed out because I never committed to any one thing, (in part because I didn't want to alienate girls that might be in other genres - lame I know). Eventually I kind of leaned into a sporty cybergoth thing, heavy into Bassnectar, Burning Man tribalism, and the like. Neat that she's from Toronto. I was pretty familiar with their scenes in the 90s and 2000s.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T08:47:59+00:00

IMO, better than emo was/is scene.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T08:45:04+00:00

I painted an epic one in highschool for a friend. It wasn't metal though. It was punk/alternative/eclectic.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T01:42:13+00:00

Burning Man "fashion" is whatever you want it to be...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Burning+Man+fashion&iar=images

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&q=Burning+Man+fashion

This is me over a dozen years ago: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 , 7 , 8 , 9.

Not remotely as radical as I would have liked, but I had a limited budget so I was more practical. If I was making consistent coin I would have invested in some serious expression. I lost ten years (long story) and am now older, different, and fat. I still hope to return one day, though considering current politics, my getting deep-woke and activism since then, and everything...

medium_tomato · 2020-07-21T01:11:18+00:00

You should totally just invest in a sewing machine. I also dabble, but going from hand-sewing to machine has been a game-changer in speed, and just trying things out. It's so much easier to just try again when you only spent 15 minutes sewing something rather than an hour.

And I agree it's amazing when you realize you can customize anything. My thing is that after learning sewing, I can make cheap accessories or embellishments that otherwise would cost a lot.

Feel free to post your personal diy stuff in this sub. I don't know anything about Burning Man fashion, so it would be a welcome addition.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-21T00:57:27+00:00

I'm a dude, not that it matters, and I don't watch many "sewing" channels, but I don't let my needle stop me so I also like Bernadette Banner and the other Peacock Dress lady who's more about motivation than fashion. I like a little of this and that in all DIY fields - from woodworking to art restoration to electronic gear to off-grid life in Earthships, sustainability, etc etc etc.

For 30 years I used to think sewing was a "fem" thing - then, preparing for Burning Man my friends were having a sewing party, I was shocked people were throwing out big scraps of costuming stuff. I said they could make this or that out of them. They showed me how and to do it myself. I had a MAJOR epiphany when I realized I could customize any fucking thing!!! OR even make my own custom stuff (poorly done, but solid (overstitched just in case) and very unique)! Sew, I sewed my ass off. I ripped the outside seam of most of my pants and put in a very tall triangle of whatever dynamic coloured scraps I had and suddenly I had a whole bunch of brilliant bell-bottoms with a coloured stripe down the outsides, many with custom pockets, cuffs, etc. I made countless fun fur pouches/purses with scraps and a bunch of free zippers someone got somewhere and made gifts of them - always well received though ultra simple. I even got some fabric and made a simple dramatic multipurpose cape. I've been almost tempted to buy a sewing machine of my own.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-21T00:30:34+00:00

Thank you for joining and posting! I look forward to more interesting posts on this sub. Reddit didn't have the best communities for fashion so hopefully this can grow more.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-21T00:23:05+00:00

If only this was more mainstream this year, maybe we could all be actually doing fun things in big groups right now.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-21T00:20:40+00:00

I love this youtuber! She has the best and most informative content and is hilarious.

Maly_Querent · 2020-07-20T23:29:43+00:00

Honestly, no. Like, the style came from the music. It's a scene, not a fashion sense. Like, the most people can be is posers and fuck those fakers.

JasonCarswell · 2020-07-20T22:41:48+00:00

Thanks for creating this /s/AlternativeFashion!!!

As an autodidact and creative person interested in all things, I'm thrilled there's finally a fashion sub, not to mention alternative fashion. Posting fantastic images from Burning Man has not been at the top of my critically important todo list, but I'm very happy to know that I can now.

So many more variations: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=plague+doctor&iar=images

philosopher · 2020-07-20T21:02:24+00:00

I love goth styled women. But the music does nothing for me at all.

medium_tomato · 2020-07-20T02:00:48+00:00

Also thanks for the first comment on the sub! It's actually kind of perfect :p

medium_tomato · 2020-07-20T01:59:06+00:00

I agree one hundred percent! Clothes are not an identity. But there are still so many different styles, especially ones that derivate from the norm. For me personally the reason I love alt fashion is not because it's other, but because I just couldn't find anything I liked in regular stores.

So people tend to often ask where this and that is from because they also love the same things. That's why I created this sub.

Edge_Finder · 2020-07-20T01:53:05+00:00

clothes don't define me

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