It's the same playbook everywhere.....

submitted by Agni777 from self.debatealtright

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[–]PrawoJazdy 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The first time I realized you Indians were actually in a similar boat was when I realized that an Indian paper that had the name 'Hindu' in it ('Hindu Times' or something similar) actually pushed blatant Leftism, multiculturalism, pro-Islam, anti-casteism, etc. I figured out quickly that despite the name sounding as though it might be conservative, it was actually hijacked by the Indian Left, and that this Indian Left, or at least this part of it, was not so different from the baizuo/White Left.

Around that time I also noticed that the BJP/INC were practically doing the usual ticking off of boxes by making sure that women, dalits (K.R. Narayanan), Sikhs (Manmohan Singh) and Muslims all held the Presidency and Prime Ministership. Another red flag, and no different to how Americans tick off boxes. Vote for Obama because... well, he's black; for Hillary and Kamala because... well, they're female, etc.

I feel like Modi is a reaction to some of this 'diversity', but he's only softly nationalist if he could even be called nationalist at all. He's practically in the same position as Trump—elected to solve problems he can't actually solve, and which actually worsen during his time in office. I like Shiv Sena from what I've heard of them; BJP is too similar to the pseudo-Right like the US Republicans and the various 'Tory' parties. He seems more like an Indian Shinzo Abe or GW Bush.

More recently, I've noticed Indians, Filipinos, etc. commenting about Left-wing control of the education system in their respective countries. It's definitely a thing in the Philippines; for example, the country's top university is also a stronghold of anti-Duterte 'dilawans' or 'yellowtards' who support that country's equivalent of the West's Left-liberal political classes.

So I think that you're seeing the Indian situation correctly. Either way, if we cannot solve the problem in our own countries, pondering about how to solve it in somewhere as unrelated to us as India is off the table. I don't think India has too much to complain about at present because the particular set of problems we oppose here tend to afflict 'late-modern', 'post-modern' peoples the most. India has been insulated by the 'modern' set of problems like poverty and has yet to replace such 'modern' problems with this new set of problems. I strongly suspect that if India became totally 'late-modern' it would see a massive ramping up of these problems (India switches to being underpopulated with the birth rate going well below replacement level similar to the Asian Tigers, social atomization, etc.)

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't think India has too much to complain about because the particular set of problems we oppose here tend to afflict 'late-modern', 'post-modern' peoples the most.

I also want to add that Indians themselves are also not doing their part when their smartest and most educated continue to flee their country and move to Western White ones instead.

For example, in Canada alone Indians are 1/4th of all new immigrants and they're on pace to be the demographic majority of our most dominant cities (i.e Toronto, Mississauga, Calgary, Vancouver etc).

If all these Indian Canadians returned to their home country, surely they could influence their own politics? At the very least, they would have millions of dollars to brute force their way into government, or take control of one of the many states in India.

[–]Agni777[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The choice that Indian kids have is either struggle entire life with difficult job market, aggressive reservations in school for a low quality of life. Or come to west where people better respect your efforts and talents.

And no, the public that comes here is typically urban and educated. Both those checks mean that the people coming here are often hood winked to supporting the left back home. It takes attention and memory to see their hypocrisy.

Mild digression, apart from America which has a lottery, most other western countries have systems of merit for immigration. Trump tried to change the Lottery system but was predictably blocked by democrats who want illegal immigration to be treated the same or better than legal immigration. Since Trump efforts, Canada is seen as a good option for less legal headaches in immigration.

Where you guys are right now, feels like the 70s-80s in India. Things that could have been addressed easily at that time if a party stood up for it. But it has only gotten worse, incentivizing better people to leave. So please don’t give up. I had a choice of coming here, if the left ruins this place, I don’t think your kids have anywhere to go next.

The Hindu, like NDTV is run by communists. Don’t be surprised to see absurd connections between politicians and media company owners.

I agree we should solve our own problems in our own backyards. But What I feel is that the left learns quickly from its international counterparts. The right does not learn or even interact internationally.

Like a lot of intellectuals in the right here could not even bother to read beyond pseudo liberal Indian media. And likewise I don’t know any Indian intellectual that could even name dissident intellectuals here.

Issues are more congruent than what I thought it would be and if I have learnt know the congruence, it would have been easier to see through absurdities better.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The choice that Indian kids have is either struggle entire life with difficult job market, aggressive reservations in school for a low quality of life. Or come to west where people better respect your efforts and talents.

What is the long term plan for this though? Especially when all this "respect" is being built off the backs of Native Whites who don't exist in unlimited supply.

Keep in mind, it was colonies like India or Jamaica who revolted against their British masters and made it clear they saw White rule as being oppression or made their lives miserable. Unless these same nations are asking to be ruled by White people again, it's impossible to justify mass migration from their own countries into the West, just because they messed up their own independence.

[–]Agni777[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don’t have a good plan as such. People usually tend to want to go back after they hit 50s.

The Jamaican, Ugandan, or other Indo Caribbean experiencs is actually good example to see what happens to a brown minority in a black majority. I want people to be more educated about these things.

[–]Agni777[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ll add that I do think white (at the time it as paraded as enlighten christian not racial) rule was oppressive and ignorant. But what we have now if a bunch of brown people who at heart are as alien to their culture as the whites who came there earlier.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Countries won't improve if people don't stay and improve them. That's it. Either you care about your country or you don't.

Many young middle class Indians are spoilt brats. They are brought up like little princes and princesses and when they go out into the real world and realise it doesn't revolve around them it's a big shock. Even when they go to the West for a better life they are often horrified the ordinary people just treat them like everyone else and don't bow and scrape like servants back home which then drives them into wokeness so they can moan about how evil poor white people are.

The right in India needs to start by talking about responsibility, individualism and culture. I'm not sure they could learn much from the western right because the cultural problems they have are so different. You see in the West young men lining up to listen to men like Jordan Peterson (not right but conservative) because they are desperate for order and father figures while in India it's really the opposite problem, kids argue with their many real and present father figures and aren't allowed to make their own way.

Possibly you could associate communists with the corrupt old men in power and thereby all the patriarchs who get in the way of angry young men and create a movement against them that way.

[–]Agni777[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are right that people should stay and try to fix countries they are a part of. But maybe some are just broken beyond repair by an average person

I’ll suggest there is a time to fight and a time where it’s not feasible to fight. In India, the average person could fight about 35 years ago. Now it’s virtually impossible.

As a reference Imagine if democrats win for all elections for 30 years and are hand in glove with the second largest party which is the communists in the USA. Then I suspect even many patriotic, smart brave and talented people here will start looking for opportunities abroad, if they exist. Just as the South Africans are having to do currently.

Most Indian kids that come here are middle class whose family is aspirational through perspiration. I can see why you might feel they are prince/princess (middle class in India is used to having a lot of household help like maids...) but I don’t think they are privileged as such. The ones that are privileged often go back to India soon after being here for college.