Ex-Libertarians, what made you change?

submitted by TrabWhite Nationalist from self.debatealtright

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[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

No, because the truth is also that if this body is holding me prisoner, chances are that others have someone in them too, especially with them being aware and all.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

agreed solipsism is false, we're stuck in our heads but we can tell it's the same for everyone, so it doesn't really matter if we're meat or not. My question is why focus on it. If something doesn't matter why bring it up.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Because whether others are "real" or just AI that look like me and imitate consciousness matters a lot for how I treat them. If they're fake it doesn't matter if I harm them, but if they're real I need to love them as myself because that means someone else like me is actually experiencing and feeling it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

it doesn't matter so it shouldn't affect how you treat them what does fake and real mean in this contyext? the same thing.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If someone else isn't conscious then I don't have to worry about how they feel, because they don't. If they are then I don't wish anything bad on them.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

ok yeah I understand that, and many humans aren't conscious so that is why I don't care about them

How about do you agree with the golden rule?

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The golden rule is why it matters to me.

I think everyone is conscious, and even if they aren't the risk that I'm wrong isn't worth it in my opinion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I guess that is one of the major problems with libertarianism. It doesn't work unless everyone, 100% of humanity, agrees with it and is a libertarian. If we do nothing it makes us too easy to control. If I treat others how I want to be treated that just means leaving them alone and living my life. They won't do the same, so we need some sort of self defense, thru rules and laws.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, defense. That means defense, not offense. That is merely the NAP. You seem to think libertarian/anarchy=chaos. That's how pop culture depicts it but the goal is the exact opposite.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

the best offense is a good defense. A premptive defense.

Yeah libertarianism is anarky/chaos. That's how it started, it's a leftwing concept. Ayn Rand helped popularize it. It just means letting the rich elites do what they want which is how we got this point.