Opinions on SinoVac?

submitted by Nombre27 from self.debatealtright

Was talking with a friend from a different country and they had China's vaccine available to them.

It's a traditional inactivated virus vaccine. I haven't seen or read much data on it, but as far as vaccines go, given that this is supposedly developed and manufactured as traditional vaccines are, I'm more inclined to trust it, although I would be as unscrupulous in analyzing any data that is put forth as with the gaslighting and misinformation going on with mRNA vaccines in the West. The other thing about these is that as far as I'm concerned, they're not developed by countries that hate their native population,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinovac_Biotech#COVID-19_vaccine_development

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinopharm_BIBP_COVID-19_vaccine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac

There's also an Indian one as well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covaxin

Still reading about them and wondering about the opinions of people here.

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[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

/u/disidenthr has had that one I think and as you can tell from his posts he's become a total vaxbrain. It has put him into a vegetative state where all he can do is post pro-vax and pro-Biden messages.

I, for one, disavow this extremist amongst us.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I had Sinopharm. I think it's shameful and disgusting politicians didn't go with Sinopharm/SinoVac and Sputnik right away and decided to play petty political games.

Some researchers say it works well against delta variant too, but Chinese aren't transparent with data apparently (according to articles I've read).

I think they should've gone with traditional vaccines right from the beginning, although time already showed mRNA vaccines are safe too. I also think traditional vaccines wouldn't prevent this polarization because I think most of conspiracies are peddled by malicious actors who want to make patriotism/nationalism as ridiculous as possible.

[–]Nombre27[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think it's shameful and disgusting politicians didn't go with Sinopharm/SinoVac and Sputnik right away and decided to play petty political games.

Good point. This raises a valid question regarding the repeated MSM/gov't claim that "we're doing this for your health." If that was the case, then politicking should have been put aside but it wasn't and lives were likely lost amongst other metrics. Also if health is so important then why not subsidize gym memberships?

Some researchers say it works well against delta variant too, but Chinese aren't transparent with data apparently (according to articles I've read).

Intuitively, it makes more sense to me that a whole inactivated virus would result in a more comprehensive immune profile than the mRNA garbage. Our immune system identifies epitopes (targets/signatures) to pathogens that usually get remembered, so I'm quite confused why this wasn't the go to and mRNA was used instead. I also find the bragging that it somehow only took 2 days to develop quite suspicious.

I know the Salk institute has indicated that the spike protein themselves are pathogenic (somehow they edited this page saying that this isn't true for vaccine spike proteins, but they didn't provide any data of that last I checked). It seems reasonable that affinity tags (such as histidine to purify) could even be added to remove the spikes if they do in fact cause vascular problems. The whole process seems rushed and I fear that it's likely created more harm/problems than good in the long run.

I also think traditional vaccines wouldn't prevent this polarization because I think most of conspiracies are peddled by malicious actors who want to make patriotism/nationalism as ridiculous as possible.

I think going the traditional route would have acquiesced some but not all vaccine hesitancy. The manipulative and punitive policies currently being put in place only makes me more suspicious of the motives for vaccination. Maybe I've missed it but I haven't heard about herd vaccination targets or testing for it at all. It seems to be the case that more vaccination, which should reduce transmission rates, has done nothing to help life return to normal (which is what I consistently hear as the primary goal from regular people).

It seems like that war on the virus has morphed into something that is no different than the other abstract but very real "wars", e.g. war on poverty, drugs, terrorism, etc. Goals and targets are kept vague and when they are stated goalposts get moved because of the "science."

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree, I always say I understand people who don't trust government because they themselves don't take it seriously, and I always say that there obviously is some corruption on EU level regarding Pfizer, and I always complain about government being retarded about handling the pandemic, yet people always accuse me of being glowballist NWO vax shill even though I'm on subreddit far longer than the accusers lol

I'll have to check your link from Salk Institute, although at face value I'm kinda skeptical.

[–]Nombre27[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Salk isn't the only one that has published on that

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34179146/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7758180/

https://www.biolifesas.org/biolife/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Theoharides_TC.pdf

This is an interesting observation regarding VAERS data

https://archive.md/i7AQl

At this point, we will ignore COVID19 and multiple other forms of fatalities and focus on two in particular: Influenza and pneumonia (J09-J18) and Symptoms, signs and abnormal clinical and laboratory findings, not elsewhere classified (R00-R99).

From CDC Weekly Provisional Counts of Deaths by State

Based on the that chart, it appears since the vaccines have started to roll out there has been a significantly increased amount of deaths from

Symptoms, signs and abnormal clinical and laboratory findings, not elsewhere classified (R00-R99).

What are R00-R99 codes? Here’s the ICD10 code:

The conditions and signs or symptoms included in categories R00–R94 consist of:

(a) cases for which no more specific diagnosis can be made even after all the facts bearing on the case have been investigated;

(b) signs or symptoms existing at the time of initial encounter that proved to be transient and whose causes could not be determined;

(c) provisional diagnosis in a patient who failed to return for further investigation or care;

(d) cases referred elsewhere for investigation or treatment before the diagnosis was made;

(e) cases in which a more precise diagnosis was not available for any other reason;

(f) certain symptoms, for which supplementary information is provided, that represent important problems in medical care in their own right.

What is clear, deaths associated with R00-R94 codes are 25,800 above the norm since February.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

not much can be trusted coming out of china but I'd trust things coming out of hong kong the most, where it is said there is a lot of anti vaccine sentiment and just 30% have taken the vaccine

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yes I'll admit that's a good/funny point, I looked way too many LiveLeak videos to know what you're talking about.

But I generally trust Chinese scientists, they're honest and actually interested in science, they're not like quackademics in the west.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think the wuhan bioweapon was let out mainly to stop the hong kong protests. They could have spread thru all of china which would cause problems for not just china but the rest of the world that does business with china. And of course covid helps the elites of other countries consolidate power as well so they were happy to go along with it.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They could have spread thru all of china which would cause problems for not just china but the rest of the world that does business with china.

No chance. They were just a CIA gayop organised solely from the west. There's no way western intelligence has as much of an ability to organise people in mainland China.

[–]Nombre27[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Have you read Unz series on the lab leak hypothesis?

Afaik, there's no data to indicate it originating in Hong Kong, unless you mean as some sort of distraction from the inorganic Hong Kong protests.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

oh I wasn't trying to say it originated in hong kong

just, no matter where it did originate, it did give authorities in china and elsewhere a reason and excuse to limit gatherings in hong kong.

[–]Nombre27[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Okay, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. That's definitely possible, however, I think after reading Unz' series, it's quite compelling that it wasn't China responsible for developing or leaking it.

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-covid-epidemic-as-lab-leak-or-biowarfare/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

that's true it might not originate in wuhan, tho it's a weird coincidence that lab is there. But it might have been brought from america for the military games, china authorities have said that, they should cooperate with an investigation tho.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If I absolutely had to get a vaccine, it would be sinopharma. It's probably the safest and most benign vaccine out there. It's a simple inactivated virus in which they inject you with a neutered sample of covid in order to prime your immune system.

Covaxin from India is similar. Inactivated virus vaccines are the oldest type of vaccines along with live virus vaccine and are relatively safe.

The danger comes from Adenovirus and especially mRNA vaccines. Those involve gene editing as they use messenger RNA to encode your genes to produce covid spike proteins.

Johnson & Johnson and Sputnik V are adenovirus vaccines.

Moderna and Pfizer are mRNA vaccines.

But the thing is that if you are living in the anglosphere you most likely won't have access to sinopharma and covaxin. Even if you did take them, they are not acknowledged by the ''experts''. You'll be required to take the mRNA jab from pfizer and modern.

In any case, you should not take vaccines period. If you are below 70 and don't have some serious health issue, your chances of dying from covid is .1% or less.

Meanwhile, the vaccines have left hundreds of thousands of people with dehabilitating conditions like bell's palsy, paralysis, myocarditis, heart inflammation, brain inflammation, or worse. Pfizer's own study showed that teenage boys are six times more likely to die of myocarditis stemming from their vaccine than covid.

[–]Nombre27[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Absolutely.

If our health was actually our government's priority then very different steps would have been taken. If being vaccinated is all that matters, why not the Chinese or Indian vaccine? The populations in these countries dwarfs all Western countries, and China appears to have had the best protocols when it comes to limiting covid proliferation. The only conclusion is that this is entirely political.

Did you see Gariepy's comments on covid numbers?

Here https://archive.ph/Ngev8

and here https://archive.ph/vYcck

Text form of first

To be clear:

Scientists, justifying their experiments by appealing to people's desire to protect themselves from future viruses, have helped a virus acquire a genetic sequence allowing it to be more dangerous in humans.

This virus is now part of the seasonal viruses that will afflict humanity forever.

Scientists then pushed a vaccine unto the population whose long-term risks are still unknown.

All of this could have been avoided had we not publicly funded science experiments.

And the second post answering "Now explain the mystical magical near disappearance of the seasonal flu."

Doctors stopped testing.

Many cases that were previously classified as "seasonal flu/pneumonia" were actually induced by pre-existing coronaviruses that weren't paid much attention to.

Incentives to hospitals due to government grants was to find everyone was dying of COVID.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Covid was so deadly it killed the seasonal flu. What a butcher!

[–]Nombre27[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The funny thing is that you can actually multiplex a PCR to identify or at least narrow down what you're seeing based on what does and doesn't get amplified. It can be highly specific and done in such a way that results in a giant matrix to algorithmically identify the pathogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplex_polymerase_chain_reaction

[–]Nombre27[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sinopharm paper can be found here

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351895776_Effect_of_2_Inactivated_SARS-CoV-2_Vaccines_on_Symptomatic_COVID-19_Infection_in_Adults_A_Randomized_Clinical_Trial

Unlike Pfizer, which relied on self-reporting for follow-up data collection, testing, and determination of efficacy, the sinopharm clinical properly tested (what I assume to be) a random representative sample of 900 participants from each treatment arm. See figure 1.

Without showing the data for number of people tested, it appears that the Pfizer study only tested about 0.5% of their study sample, while the sinopharm tested about 6.6% and an efficacy of 72.8%.

The Indian covaxin study, found here

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.30.21259439v1.full-text

Went even further and tested almost 31% of participants and found an efficacy of 77%.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2021/07/02/2021.06.30.21259439/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

Pfizer study, tested 170 people out of 44820, or 0.4%, found an efficacy of 95%.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Moderna wasn't much better than Pfizer, and tested 288 out of 30420, or 0.94% of the study sample, and found an efficacy of 94.1%

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389

So who has better data?