What do you think National Socialism got wrong?

submitted by [deleted] from self.debatealtright

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You should be asking the British 'why the Munich agreement' not the Germans. The British sticking their stupid Anglo noses into the affairs of the Germans in central and Eastern europe is as absurd and offensive as Germany negotiating and playing arbiter in the relationship between Northern Ireland, London and Dublin. NONE OF THEIR FUCKING BUSINESS.

Hitler wanted to bring diaspora Germans back into the Reich -- diaspora Germans felt the same way. That's what any nationalist would want and if given the oppurtunity would seek to achieve. The idea of the sad and declining British Empire seeking to impose itself on those relationships is one of the worst jokes in the history of the 20th century.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

None of which explains why Germany gave its solemn word in Munich and broke it a few months later.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

To quote Hitler: 'In my personal life I would never lie. But for the sake of the German Nation I would.' (That's more a paraphrase but he told that to his secretary Christa Schroeder from memory.)

There's no such thing as solemnity in international relations only pragmatism and self-interest. Anyone who tells you different is a liar, a thief or trying to sell you something -- that or a member of a weak nation or a modern American.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Well that was one of history's worst decisions. For the dubious value of Bohemia and Moravia he lost the trust of the British, with whom he wished to ally. Idiot.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Dubious value? There were millions of Germans in Poland and Czechoslovakia who were his countrymen he was trying to liberate. I don't know how any nationalist can call that of 'dubious value'. Again though if we're talking of things of dubious value that weren't worth anything that only an idiot would plunge the world into a war for let's talk about Danzig and polish integrity. What conceivable interests did chamberlain, France and Britain have in doing that?

When you start to answer that question you realize who the real mad men were.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There were millions of Germans in Poland and Czechoslovakia who were his countrymen he was trying to liberate.

They weren't in Bohemia and Moravia. They were in the Sudetenland. Hitler said that's all he wanted, and then a few short months later, grabbed the rest of Czechoslovakia anyway. That's what broke the trust with the British. If he'd kept his word, maybe he'd have been able to ally with Britain against the USSR.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Poland happily gobbled up parts of Czechoslovakia as well. Didn't seem to break the trust with Britian though.

If he'd kept his word, maybe he'd have been able to ally with Britain against the USSR.

Unlikely. What's more likely is that the Czechs would have continued to funnel millions of pounds worth of bribes to British politicians to maintain a belligerent stance towards Germany as they'd been doing for years already. Then the British would have found another excuse.

What I'm certain of though is that if Churchill hadn't totally bungled the Norway campaign and stumbled his drunken ass into the PM's job then Chamberlain would have been willing to listen to peace offers from the Germans because he knew who was pushing Britain into these wars.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What's more likely is that the Czechs would have continued to funnel millions of pounds worth of bribes to British politicians to maintain a belligerent stance towards Germany as they'd been doing for years already.

This is an original thought I've never seen before.

Even so, they just lost a huge chunk of their country, by far the part that made the most money. Where were they going to find these millions of pounds?

Chamberlain would have been willing to listen to peace offers from the Germans

He DID listen to the peace offers. That's how we got Munich!

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Czech bribing is covered in Churchill's War by Irving BTW. Very interesting. Good lesson too to never let your wife keep a diary because one of the accounts of the Czech bribes comes from a Conservative' MP's wife lamenting the loss of the Czech payments after the dissolution of Benes' state.

Even so, they just lost a huge chunk of their country, by far the part that made the most money. Where were they going to find these millions of pounds?

I'm sure they could have found a way.

He DID listen to the peace offers. That's how we got Munich!

What I mean is he would have listened to the repeated peace offers Germany made to England after Britain had declared war. There was a strong peace faction in the British government. They weren't all disgusting war mongers like Churchill. Some of them were very decent and honourable people who realized how insane the war was and that there was no conceivable benefit to Britain to continue to fight it -- many of the public realized this too BTW.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sure they could have found a way.

Fuggin' seriously?

What I mean is he would have listened to the repeated peace offers Germany made to England after Britain had declared war.

They didn't listen to those peace offers because Germany broke its word at Munich! Fooled once, shame on you. Fooled twice, shame on me! Won't be fooled again.