Marines die in the gayest way possible

submitted by Wrangel from self.debatealtright

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (52 children)

You've always wanted to ban me, so no surprise there.

It is NOT tone policing to ask the question in a debate sub: "why this is not among the cruelest responses to the sacrifices of those Marines, as well as Afghans"? Moreover, tone policing potentially relates to anything in a debate, especially at Saidit, where you can see responses to my posts that are essentially tone policing, claiming that I'm making these comments because I am a faggot, or Chinese, or ESL (?), or a trans women, or whatever. Obviously, this isn't the most mature of places, and no one really follows the guidelines, as you should know by now. A claim of tone policing against someone is an easy way to avoid debate and personal responsibility. Let's consider the question without the "tone" you refer to. Is it a fact that "Marines die in the gayest way possible" in the recent bombing? No, it's not a fact. If you want to say that the gay comment references the mission, rather than the soldier, this is just not true. What is more heroic than trying to help people to safety and potentially a better life elsewhere, while in a war zone, and however dying for your sacrifice because of a religious fundamentalist suicide bomber? Moreover, because of the ISIS religious hatred in this case, the soldiers are also martyrs, in several religious contexts. What would be a gay way to die? I don't know?: when doing something that's gay. It just makes no sense. And what kind of opinion is the phrase, "Marines die in the gayest way possible"? I don't know. Hence, I asked DAR. Is it not a cruel response to their sacrifices? This I wanted DAR members to answer. Some of them offered answers. Some of them didn't follow Saidit or DAR guidelines. Hence it's a normal form of "debate" on Saidit. Do whatever you want.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

You started the insults you pathetic little creep and you also told me to kill myself -- which really hurt my feelings ill have you know!! -- now you're complaining others are childish and breaking saidit rules. You really are a disgusting hypocrite.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (43 children)

Don't act like the victim. That's absolute nonsense. Look back at your eight comments against me, in all of which you insult me. Do I not have the right to respond at the same level of the pyramid to your insults? Am I to be nice to you when you insult me? Think about that for a second. When you insulted me, you lowered the discourse to the bottom of the POD. Any response from me - at the same level as your comment - or furher up the pyramid, did not break the rules. I was not the original one to lower the discourse; you were. Consider the golden rule and follow Saidit's rules (or think about the feelings of others, or think about not bullying others) and no one will have the right to respond with insults.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (38 children)

I initially responded to you with a long response completely free of insults explaining my position. Then YOU responded to a comment which wasn't even directed at you with an insult to which I responded in kind. I'm not a victim and who really cares but those are the facts you little bitch. You started the insults and then got push back now you're whining about people being childish and breaking the rules because you're a hypocrite. Don't be a liar as well. Take responsibility for your own actions. If you insult people -- which you regularly do -- people are going to respond in kind.

I insult people a lot but I don't complain and cry when people push back. That's only natural.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

I insult people a lot but I don't complain and cry when people push back.

Seriously? You just said, "which really hurt my feelings ill have you know!!"

This comment of yours is literally a complaint. This is also the first time I've read that comment on Saidit.

Moreover - let's look at your first response to me, where there are insults:

The people who began the war are nearly as sickening as the people crying crocodile tears now over the fate of the poor Afghanis and soldiers now.

Those would be my crocadile tears, correct? Did you hurt my feelings?

Where were they when the thousands of soldiers who have died in this God forsaken hell hole for no conceivable reason? Where were you?

Another insult? I've organized and attended protests in London, where there were over 100,000 people on two occasions, and 10s of thousands on other occasions. I also paid to support musicians from Afghanistan leave their countries and go on tour.

I'd Ike to see ONE post you've made weeping for the soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq before today.

Another insult, where you question my honesty?

If you think it's cruel to realize these soldiers died for nothing along with the thousands of others who died -- not to mention the Afghanis -- then go weep your eyes out with bill kristol, Lindsay Graham and Jenny Rubin.

And the worst kind of insult, comparing me to the assholes, Kristol and Graham. I don't know who Rubin is.

(I was indeed responding to your insults.)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

So you are from London? Mogadishu? America?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Ask your momma.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Slime.

[–]russianhomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

that is an insult to slime.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The insults on this website, I tell you...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Probably, skeeter

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh come on! That's classic old-school repartee. (Don't be a weakling, especially when 99% of your responses to me are insults.)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, it was just weak in general. Seriously.

[–]russianhomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

fuckn perverse motherfucker always running around with your dirty mouth insults.

drop the insults.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Running around?

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Seriously? You just said, "which really hurt my feelings ill have you know!!"

I was kidding. Calm down. Also none of the other things in my original response are personal insults that lower the tone they're observations.

As usual you won't take responsibility for your own behaviour.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

I was kidding. Calm down.

There is absolutely nothing in your posts - other than "silly goose" - that indicates that you are kidding about anything.

Also none of the other things are personal insults that lower the tone they're observations.

Yes, they are.

As usual you won't take responsibility for your own behaviour.

Name something you want me to "take responsibility" for. I am kindly responding to your abuses and accusations. What exactly are you expecting after you've insulted someone in ALL of your responses? Should I say: thank you for calling me a faggot. Have a wonderful day.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What exactly are you expecting after you've insulted someone in ALL of your responses?

Not much. You should really be asking yourself that question though, Socks.

Also this is my final word on the matter and it's a response to a mod:

Dude it's totally fine. We traded insults. Don't ban him [socks] on account of me and I was just kidding when I said it hurt my feelings. I know it wasn't a threat or anything it's just internet bantz. All I'm trying to point out to him is that he started insulting people so he got the same back so he shouldn't complain nothing else.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Tsk, tsk. You're being a mean pee pee head.

Sometimes the PoD feels like a copout to tell on the banter once someone gets insulted. I know that it can end up distracting from real discussion after someones panties get in enough of a wad, but it would be neat if we could express the expletives without all of that and just continue to discuss things.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

PoD?

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Take responsibility for the fact that YOU started insulting people last night. It's a simple point and it's undeniable.

Also no nothing in my original comment to you before you started with the low tier insults was a personal insult.

What exactly are you expecting after you've insulted someone in ALL of your responses?

You called me a 'fucking idiot', I called you a 'faggot'. You're the only one whining and trying to make up lies about 'look mommy, the bad men insulted me first.'

You started the insults last night. Just accept it, stop lying and move on.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Take responsibility for the fact that YOU started insulting people last night.

This is unrelated to the present thread. I don't know what you're talking about.

It's a simple point and it's undeniable.

You've not identified the 'last night' thing that you now want to include in the discussion.

Also no nothing in my original comment to you before you started with the low tier insults was a personal insult.

Yes, there were, for reasons already explained to you.

You called me a 'fucking idiot', I called you a 'faggot'. You're the only one whining and trying to make up lies about 'look mommy, the bad men insulted me first.'

Did I whine about anything? I responded to your concerns because you said your feelings were hurt. Perhaps I shouldn't have. Moreover, you are still insulting me in every one of your responses in this thread. Why to you have to do that? Is this important for you?

You started the insults last night. Just accept it, stop lying and move on.

All of my comments in this thread were made between the morning today (in the US) now, just before midnight on the East Coast.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

There is absolutely nothing in your posts - other than "silly goose" - that indicates that you are kidding about anything.

I'm an adult male I don't go around complaining if people hurt my feelings. Hopefully any other reader would understand that but if you can't then so be it. Be pedantic and continue lying and playing the victim.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

any other reader would understand that but if you can't then so be it. Be pedantic and continue lying and playing the victim.

And another insult. You can't stop with the insults, can you?

You complained that I hurt your feelings, which is why I responded. Why do you insist that you did not complain? Don't bother answering these questions. This is ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You're totally amping up the victim complex shit. Just calm down, call each other stupid names for a minute, and get back to your points. You're losing focus on what's important in your debate and letting it slide to being butthurt instead, and that doesn't help anything.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Any response from me - at the same level as your comment - or furher up the pyramid, did not break the rules. I was not the original one to lower the discourse; you were.

This is my first comment to you before I went to bed last night:

They sacrificed their lives for nothing. The blood is on the hands of the people who began the war. The people who began the war are nearly as sickening as the people crying crocodile tears now over the fate of the poor Afghanis and soldiers now. Where were they when the thousands of soldiers who have died in this God forsaken hell hole for no conceivable reason? Where were you? I'd Ike to see ONE post you've made weeping for the soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq before today. The only kind response to this whole decades long disaster is complete withdrawal and only disgusting cynics are asking people to weep over this.

The only kindness in war is a swift ending and that's what we're finally getting. If you think it's cruel to realize these soldiers died for nothing along with the thousands of others who died -- not to mention the Afghanis -- then go weep your eyes out with bill kristol, Lindsay Graham and Jenny Rubin.

This is your first response to me to a comment which wasn't directed at you:

No they've not - you fucking idiot.

YOU started the insults, hypocrite. YOU LOWERED THE TONE. You got exactly what you deserve and acted in the exact same way you complain others do.

Don't make up lies.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As I think you've now seen, I responded to the insults in your first post here. And when you compare me with Kristol and Graham, the gloves are obviously off.

When you tell me that I am making up lies, that's another insult.

In any event, my main concern was not about your insults in the first post, but about your comment that "they sacrificed their lives for nothing." They've not. The insults about crocodile tears just made it worse. It's not phony for someone to mourn the loss of those lives.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Comparing you to Kristol and Graham -- and the comparison is apt in this case -- is not a personal insult.

When you tell me that I am making up lies, that's another insult.

Stop making up lies then.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, it is an insult. And the comparison is definitely not 'apt', which is another insult. Nor have I lied, which is another insult. Now let's see, how many insults have I received from all of your posts? A bunch. Thank you so much for all of the insults. I've been asked to let you know that I don't want you to kill yourself, and that I am sorry for suggesting it. My apologies.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You've always wanted to ban me, so no surprise there.

I'm literally the only mod that voted to let you come back after that first ban. We tried to give you a chance because many of your posts at least had evidence and reasoning. However, telling people to kill themselves is unacceptable.

It is NOT tone policing to ask the question in a debate sub: "why this is not among the cruelest responses to the sacrifices of those Marines, as well as Afghans"?

You're not getting banned for that.

Moreover, tone policing potentially relates to anything in a debate, especially at Saidit, where you can see responses to my posts that are essentially tone policing, claiming that I'm making these comments because I am a faggot, or Chinese, or ESL (?), or a trans women, or whatever.

None of those people called to have you killed. It was just adhominem which you also engage in all the time. Low pyramid adhominem is not a ban offense. If it was you also would have been gone a long time ago.

Let's consider the question without the "tone" you refer to. Is it a fact that "Marines die in the gayest way possible" in the recent bombing? No, it's not a fact. If you want to say that the gay comment references the mission, rather than the soldier, this is just not true

Then you should have leveled these issues with OP in a civilized way instead of coming into this thread like a wrecking ball.

What is more heroic than trying to help people to safety and potentially a better life elsewhere, while in a war zone, and however dying for your sacrifice because of a religious fundamentalist suicide bomber?

This would have made for a great debate and a lot of people would have engaged you. You didn't seem to want to have a real debate though.

Some of them didn't follow Saidit or DAR guidelines.

And neither did you.

Some of them didn't follow Saidit or DAR guidelines.

You're the only one that called for violence though. You're welcome to make an apology in a separate thread. But there's no expectation here that people are not going to throw insults around. That's not something we'd ban you or anybody else for because everyone occasionally engages in it. It's only when it's a pattern that it becomes a problem. Just ignore people that do adhominem.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm literally the only mod that voted to let you come back after that first ban.

Thank you.

I've always liked debates, and there are some on DAR who will genuinely make an effort to debate and sometimes surprise me with good arguments. And occasionally I'll respond to verious people in one thread, as happened today, and the number of thread comments surpass 100. Not that this is an excuse but: I'm obviously upset about Afghanistan, and I don't want to respond kindly to users who repeatedly call me names, especially in the context of the recent bombing. The Taliban have been in the process of erasing much of Afghanistan's impressive culture, as have ISIS, and the US and Israel have helped both groups develop. I've never liked the US military presence in Afghanistan, and protested in 2001 against sending troops there, but I also don't like the way in which the US has abandoned its supporters in various wars, twice in Iraq, recently in Syria, and now in Afghanistan. It's been a pattern of abuse for over a century. I am also reading comments by Americans and others who don't want Afghani supporters of Allies to emigrate. I think also of the Afghanis I've met over the years. I shouldn't generalize, but the folks I've met have been so much nicer, genuine, interesting, and generally 'good', by contrast to many others I've met from neighbouring countries in the region, or other migrants in general. They're also not as belligerent as I am or as Westerners are, which is one reason the Taliban easily reclaimed territory. The loss of Marines and others is also sad. In any event, I am sorry I am so prickly today in this thread. I will not complain if I am banned.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I get it. A lot of other people were dicks in that thread as well. Please let /u/literalotherkin know that you got a bit heated and weren't being serious and I'll consider this a closed issue.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Dude it's totally fine. We traded insults. Don't ban him on account of me and I was just kidding when I said it hurt my feelings. I know it wasn't a threat or anything it's just internet bantz. All I'm trying to point out to him is that he started insulting people so he got the same back so he shouldn't complain nothing else.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Noted. He still needs to reach out to you though.

[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're a good mod, SNS.