A much better idea at debunking the Far-Left/Multiculturalism.

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

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[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Just so you're not tempted to make too much of this fact, I'll point out that a) conservatives no longer do that, b) the pool of such immigrants is small compared to the third world in general, and c) obviously that policy did not itself create a demographic crisis.

It's much harder to pull off today just because actual Communist states have fallen since the 90s but there are still rare examples. Like Boris Johnson wants to grant 3 million citizenship to people fleeing from Hong Kong to come to the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53246899

Though I want argue it wont create a demographic crisis, with maybe the exception of what President Reagan did to California with his amensty act.

"All immigrants are just like us in every way, so any cap would be arbitrary and therefore wrong."

Then it's probably time to start weighing out the actual costs of supporting an entire nation, and the fact they still live in sub-par conditions when brought to the West. For example, one survey done in Canada found that 40% of all Toronto homeless shelters were made up of asylum claimants.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/street-needs-assessment-2018-1.4925418

If they ask them to move them into proper housing, remind them there is also a major housing shortage. Funny story, I just saw this article posted today. The same Rich Millennials living in Toronto can't afford a home either, and they're force to live in a parking garage or locker.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/06/08/im-a-millennial-with-a-good-income-in-torontos-housing-market-all-i-can-afford-is-a-parking-space-or-storage-locker.html

As for the actual costs of supporting refugees, there's a good article published on Syrians that goes into great detail. Only 5 ~ 24% of all Syrian males are actually employed. 50% can't speak the official language. They get $200 a month from the government, and $3,000 a month from local churches.

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/how-syrian-refugees-to-canada-have-fared-since-2015/

So while there are some hard working success stories, the majority of these guys take out more money than they actually give back to the country. The situation is made even worse with Covid. If these people end up sick, the government now has to pay for them and their entire family while they recover in a hospital. These same hospital rooms are now deprived from actual citizens of the country who now face the risk of dying in the hallway.

Funny how neither of these facts has gone very far in undermining support for immigration from the left.

True, but I think it shows the media is more afraid of letting this information out, rather than the fact there is substance to the idea that mass immigration = undermines the environment. David Suzuki wasn't afraid to point this out in 2013, even before cancel culture tried to silence anyone who spoke ill of diversity. It's now about presenting his facts to the mainstream, especially anytime climate initiatives are spoken by politicians. For example, if Bernie Sanders or Alexandria Cortex start harping on about how fast climate change is happening, explain to them how does importing more refugees actually aim at deaccelerating it?

These are good examples to make the point, but they're not the ones about which leftists really care. They're not brainpower jobs, you see.

Intelligence is the hardest thing to argue with the Left, because they assume it's all "made up" or "subjective". Otherwise, I would just bring up the SAT Score ranking by race to explain any brainpower gap. At least by saying "culture/preference" it's an insensitive way of saying we don't need equality for every job. If Asians don't wish to apply for basketball because sports is not their thing, then no one should get offended when we point that figure out. If there aren't a lot of Blacks applying for STEM jobs, then perhaps the majority just don't care for it either. If the Left wants to argue they want to STEM 100% black, they need to show some kind of mass participation rates in school.

Considering how many professions are out there, I actually think it's complete lunacy there is even an argument that every job needs representation. For example, just going off this U.S labor survey, there are jobs that don't even require much skill that still have more Blacks employed compared to Asians and Hispanics. Bus Drivers, Janitors, Cement mixers.

https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm

By the way, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if more black people do want to become computer scientists or doctors. The Left just needs to be less dishonest by thinking EVERYONE wants to do those jobs instead of the fact, many people are already comfortable doing the thousands others that exist. It's the same with White people. Many of them are Scientists, but there are plenty of White roofers too. We don't need to get rid of Roofing jobs to satisfy making everyone a Scientist.

[–]aukofthecovenantWhite man with eyes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

At least by saying "culture/preference" it's an insensitive way of saying we don't need equality for every job.

Of course we don't need it; to the leftist the question is why we don't have it already. Sure, by saying "it's their culture/preference" you avoid talking about biology, but you also invite the leftist to respond "With enough social engineering we can one day fix the problem indicated by this inequality".

Considering how many professions are out there, I actually think it's complete lunacy there is even an argument that every job needs representation.

It has nothing to do with the number of possible professions. The "argument" is that if all groups were equally smart/driven/capable there would naturally be proportional representation in every field, and since we don't have that there must be something unnatural that needs to be fixed.

The Left just needs to be less dishonest by thinking EVERYONE wants to do those jobs

Wants to, yes, but also can.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Of course we don't need it; to the leftist the question is why we don't have it already. Sure, by saying "it's their culture/preference" you avoid talking about biology, but you also invite the leftist to respond "With enough social engineering we can one day fix the problem indicated by this inequality".

I can answer this with the following paragraph. The inequality the Left complains about is less racial in nature, but more educational. Any black immigrant with a masters degree can come to the West and get a high profile job compared to Native born blacks. So it's not like the gap can be explained because skin color is getting rejected. They need proof however, that all Black Americans have these magical degrees and it's only because of "racism" why this talent pool is in huge supply but with low demand. But by looking at SAT Scores and other educational benchmarks, it's a fact that Black Americans are not even the most highly educated groups in the U.S. So there's no racism when they haven't passed the entry level requirements like Asians or other Black immigrants have.

It has nothing to do with the number of possible professions. The "argument" is that if all groups were equally smart/driven/capable there would naturally be proportional representation in every field, and since we don't have that there must be something unnatural that needs to be fixed.

To be honest, proportional representation can only work if the Left actually had the numbers that say "Huge amounts of Blacks applied for "x" job, but the vast majority still got rejected".

But they never provided the first proof of where this over supply of educated minorities came from. The only raw example that comes close, are actual immigrants who arrive with degrees. But naturally, these people still find work in their fields and are rewarded for it. Nigerian American incomes are clearly double that of Native born Black Americans for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income#Detailed_ancestry

So I don't believe the Left has any moral standing on this subject. The evidence is proportional to what educational level exists, rather than population. To get more Black born Americans into these jobs, they have to reproduce data that says they do have the skills but are somehow being rejected by skin color. Yet their own SAT Scores show that gaps exist and thus the reason for inequality in "smarter" professions.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highlight-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

Show them the very end of this table where Asians outclass every group. It would be bizarre why both Black & Whites would have the same representation as another group that's clearly more educated then both of them.

Wants to, yes, but also can.

See above. If they only took in educated immigrants or enforced IQ standards at every level of society, then proportional representation might look realistic, since all the stupid ones would be forced to marry up to move ahead in life instead of staying where they are and breeding more low IQ kids. But that's a subject that would force them to admit Eugenics was right all along, heh. But I would take that chance to insert it in the debate. The country of Brazil used that for their own black population, and today, it's not complete Africa tier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_whitening

If Black Americans were also forced to give up their low IQ culture, then no one would whine about their lack of doctors or scientists.

[–]aukofthecovenantWhite man with eyes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think you're deliberately missing the point.

So there's no racism when they haven't passed the entry level requirements like Asians or other Black immigrants have.

The point being that even without any "racism", or any differing "cultures/preferences", there could still be a disparity due to different distributions of ability between races. Now, you might be able to avoid bringing that up by interposing all this talk about education. You might even convince someone that way. But:

But by looking at SAT Scores and other educational benchmarks, it's a fact that Black Americans are not even the most highly educated groups in the U.S.

all you do is shift the conversation from disparities in employment to disparities in educational attainment, but without addressing why the new disparities exist. Ultimately you are trying to explain why Biological Category A has different outcomes than Biological Category B, but without invoking biology. I don't see why you expect to succeed.

To be honest, proportional representation can only work if the Left actually had the numbers that say "Huge amounts of Blacks applied for "x" job, but the vast majority still got rejected".

Huge amounts of qualified blacks, who might not exist for several reasons.

The country of Brazil used that for their own black population, and today, it's not complete Africa tier.

Why not just lead with this fact?

If Black Americans were also forced to give up their low IQ culture, then no one would whine about their lack of doctors or scientists.

I suspect that If blacks suddenly stopped acting and/or being low-IQ, more people would be more distraught over that shortage because right now they understand, even if only intuitively and are unwilling to verbalize it, that the reason for the "shortage" now is that blacks tend to be lower-IQ.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

all you do is shift the conversation from disparities in employment to disparities in educational attainment, but without addressing why the new disparities exist. Ultimately you are trying to explain why Biological Category A has different outcomes than Biological Category B, but without invoking biology. I don't see why you expect to succeed.

What I tend to find is that the Left is willing to put education on a pedestal to explain certain life outcomes while ignoring any biological components that also form this logic. But that's also what makes debating this subject more fun. They can believe that all races/skin colors are the same, but they don't treat all high school or university degrees as equal.

I'm not saying your point of view is wrong by the way. It would definitely be far more easier and less time consuming to point out that higher levels of smartness (biological) is responsible for higher levels of education. I just realize however, that the society we live in has made touching any subject that deals with intelligence and genes to be completely taboo. Even if I showed up with a long list of sources on this subject, (like what Jared Taylor has done 10 years ago and he still got crucified for it https://www.bitchute.com/video/JVF1AkO4nQqI/), the topic will always shift back to arguing "education matters more!".

Huge amounts of qualified blacks, who might not exist for several reasons.

Using the USA as a example, Black Americans are already competing against more educated immigrants. Some of which already have the same skin color but clearly make more money like the Nigerians. If they ask for qualified blacks, clearly show the difference between these ghetto people vs the ones who did have to work for their degrees.

That said, I know what's coming next. The Left will just say "Ghetto people are oppressed and deserve better jobs". In which case, I believe this is where we finally have to draw the line and start pointing out poor classes will exist in every society and not everybody can be super rich or super smart in life. Not even racism will work as a defense here, because White people and Asians have their own poor underclass who will never be as successful as the people born into wealth.

Why not just lead with this fact?

I'll be honest and say it requires teaching them history. In a conversation that might only last 2 minutes at max, trying to explain the entire history of Brazil having a large slave population, whereas today only 7% of the population is actually pure African, might just bore Lefties or leave them uninterested in the topic as a whole.

But what might be more relevant and an effective strategy is comparing several countries who are like Brazil, and making observations of what cultural patterns exist. It's no secret that many European countries cluster together and do well in education. Same can be said about East Asian societies as well. Since Brazil is a mixed race society, it clearly represents the best and worst worlds of combining African culture with that of Europeans & Asians.

Annnnnnnnnnd, if they're still interested in this subject, now would be the best time to show them Brazil's ethnic composition vs level of development. The Brazilian states with the highest amounts of European or Asian admixture correlates heavily to higher standards of living.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/hj1g97/brazil_ethnic_composition_vs_gdp_per_capita/

I suspect that If blacks suddenly stopped acting and/or being low-IQ, more people would be more distraught over that shortage because right now they understand, even if only intuitively and are unwilling to verbalize it, that the reason for the "shortage" now is that blacks tend to be lower-IQ.

Yup, they would be shocked by this revelation. Unfortunately, the same blind obedience to diversity & multiculturalism had also played a big part in censoring this information so they still deserve some blame for ironically, holding back Black people when they most needed their help.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-school-science-project-that-connected-race-and-iq-is-pulled-after-complaints

Regardless, I would consider it a win if the racial IQ taboo is finally shattered. Nothing in life was ever easy and arguably, we live in much better times where knowledge can at least be preserved and spread over the internet. Everyone even has a cellphone in their pocket, so bringing up race and education data only takes 5 seconds to search, as opposed the olden days of having to invite someone to go to the library and borrow a book...

[–]aukofthecovenantWhite man with eyes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I just realize however, that the society we live in has made touching any subject that deals with intelligence and genes to be completely taboo.

I get it. I guess the question here is whether you want to merely detach your liberal opponent or liberal listeners from liberalism and let them just float free, or whether you want them to reach escape velocity and land here. I'm certainly not going to insist that you broach subjects you'd rather not touch, but you should recognize that your opponent may agree with everything you do say, then think "Well all races are fundamentally equal in all abilities so...", and basically go right back to being a liberal.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Deep down, most people know the real truth about intelligence and genes. Just look at the current President right now. Joe Biden infamously said that "poor kids are just as smart as white kids". That's not something that slips out of his mouth by accident. He's been alive for 70+ years and it's always been a reoccurring thought, even up to his final presidential campaign.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-says-poor-kids-are-just-bright-just-talented-white-n1040686

He was never even "cancelled" for that statement, yet Biden will still pass laws meant to censor anyone who speak of the same research he just spouted.

It's an amazingly bizarre contradiction, but it's just something we have to live with until we have our own modern day Scopes Monkey Trial. The teaching of Evolutionary Theory underwent the same social taboo and persecutions, until one day, there was far too much evidence to actually criminalize it anymore. The same will hold true with Race Science.

Perhaps the first company that makes it possible to commercially edit your own genes, will serve that purpose in lifting the stigma.