How do you define the different schools of thought in the current incarnation of the Alt-Right?

submitted by [deleted] from self.debatealtright

I'm not insightful of enough to figure this out on my own, so I figured I'd ask.

For starters, you can see some pretty stark differences between AmRen and Richard Spencer and pals.

AmRen tends to focus a lot on things like race realism, diversity, black crime and has a generally more pragmatic view. AmRen also seems to favor a libertarian viewpoint.

Spencer has been trying to circle back and build a stronger philosophical foundation. He's had a strong emphasis on rejecting Alt-lite and even alt-right figures who's ideas and approach 'lead nowhere'. Not everyone agrees with him, but I feel his approach has some strengths. Instead of bashing blacks for example, Spencer tries to focus on what it would look like for masses of whites to conceptualize the nature of power in this world and how to realize that power.

Seems like most people find AmRen more likable, but is their approach really the best? Jared Taylor recently said in a new interview with Greg Johnson that he shouldn't be seen as radical because his ideas are in sync with American figures like Lincoln and Washington. I actually think that's lame. Those men may have understood race for what it was, but can they really help us create bold new paradigms for the future? I have to say, there does seem to be something more exciting to Spencer's visionary approach rather than AmRen's approach which is still very valuable but sometimes stale and uninspiring.

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[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I don't know what Andrew Anglin is now but he is definitely not a National Socialist.

    [–]Talmudstein2 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    As far as I am aware, Anglin is a groyper supporter now.

    [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nietzschean Materialism

    That's where I am.

    [–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    What about your more revolutionary types, people descending from Rockwell, Pierce, Mason, etc

    [–]jykylsin2034 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I guess I'm traditionalist idealism

    [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    I don't even see Richard Spencer as alt right at the moment. The Mark Brahmin, Spencer, Dutton crew doesn't interest me much. (even though I like Dutton he's over specialized in the hard sciences to be much use in forming political theory and developing the social groups we need).

    In my opinion the real alt right is between 4 clusters: Mark Collet's crew in the Uk. Nick Fuentes America first groyper squad. TRS's National Justice Project. Keith Woods Nazbol crew.

    Under the right conditions I think these 4 would combine under one banner.

    Honorable mention wild cards: Andrew Anglin and BAP. I'd like to see these two form or back a certain faction but it doesn't really fit well with their dispositions.

    I deeply love and respect Jared Taylor but I don't consider Jared Taylor an alt right leader anymore. He's more of a grandpa sensei figure (as is David Duke). He's too passive, too old, too resigned and way too JQ avoidant to be of much use to a serious political party.

    We are fast approaching a time where we will need the young, fit, aggressive types far more then we will need the big brain types.

    edit. JF, Alt Hype, and many of the southern nationalist personalities have taken themselves out of the game which is a shame as they were good additions to the alt right sphere.

    [–]SoylentCapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    In my opinion the real alt right is between 4 clusters: Mark Collet's crew in the Uk. Nick Fuentes America first groyper squad. TRS's National Justice Project. Keith Woods Nazbol crew.

    Forgive my possible ignorance, but isn't Nick Fuentes different from the others you mentioned and isn't even alt-right? He's also only 75% white which makes me think there's a section of the alt-right that wouldn't get along with him.

    [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Nick Fuentes different from the others you mentioned

    He's higher optics but if you watch enough of his content and read between the lines he's basically a dissident. He just has a different approach to how he promotes himself and what he prioritizes. Most of the people in his social media sites hint at an awareness of alt right topics like JQ, holohoax (see cookie monster clip), race realism, white genocide, etc.

    He's also only 75% white which makes me think there's a section of the alt-right that wouldn't get along with him.

    You have to separate what you're taught about 'white nationalism' and what it actually is. Sure there are hardcore factions of white nationalist that would reject Fuentes but it's a minority of the dissident sphere and in fact most people in comments that you see calling Nick racial slurs are what we call D and C trolls or 'Divide and Conquer' agents. These people are paid to plant seeds of division among dissidents.

    The alt right today is nothing like the skin heads of the 90's who were heavily infiltrated by intelligence service members and propagandized. For the most part the alt right recognizes that a good chunk of Hispanics have lots of Spanish blood which is of course European in origin. Nick is mostly white, white presenting, raised in the US, and clearly intelligent. White presenting Hispanics that are westernized are not a problem for us. Castizos were considered european in the old caste system of south america (they could even travel back to Europe) so again small groups of these people are not going to hurt the gene pool. It's millions of mastizo, mulato, zambo and full blooded ameri-indians like Guatemalans that cause a problem. Even these folks are not BAD people they are just imported by our oligarchs to be used as voting, legal, financial and demographic weapons against us and so we must oppose them for our survival.

    If you have any liberal friends or you're coming from a liberal or moderate background read this

    https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2018/12/08/an-open-letter-to-liberals-and-centrists/

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    DAR is like a deradicalisation sub

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Regardless of how "based" Fuentes sounds, or even is, he should be considered compromised for OPSEC purposes.

      'Compromised' is a bit too far IMO but yes I agree that Nick Fuentes needs to be watched carefully. He does seem to make some dumb moves. I hated how he went after Patrick Little. Stirring up drama so that you can get more attention is a female trait not a serious dissident masculine leader trait. And yes of course Milo is compromised big time. I don't know who exactly he's working for but I don't trust him at all even if he does 'find god' again like he seems to be doing lately.

      Is there any bad blood or anything among these other people?

      Sure, but not really worth getting into. Mike Enoch is being a pretty good leader lately and when asked or baited on podcasts he doesn't snipe at people. Everyone should pay attention to that and follow suit. We have bigger fish to fry.

      [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I'm still writing somethign about Fuentes. He is indeed a grifting shill.

      [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I look forward to reading it.

      [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Spencer doesn't seem to be interested in anything other than making occasional live streams now. Strange how much energy the Alt Right, or whatever you want to call it, lost over the years.

      AmRen is the standard approach among the right which is to complain about various things and hope one day they will suddenly get better.

      [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      Seems like most people find AmRen more likable, but is their approach really the best? Jared Taylor recently said in a new interview with Greg Johnson that he shouldn't be seen as radical because his ideas are in sync with American figures like Lincoln and Washington.

      Yes I find this annoying as well. AmRen continues to invite people like Brimelow who runs a great website but whose strategy of normalization of WN ideas and anti-immigrant sentiment seems to fail time and time again. Also the strategy of openly courting Jews -- I remember the Derb once saying that the reason you had to have Jewish backing and make your ideology 'Jew friendly' was because political success was impossible without them -- seems never to bear any real fruit yet they persist.

      However I have massive respect for AmRen and Taylor and this is a movement where people should be approaching the problem from different angles and different approaches without being called names. I am so sick of every time I see someone on the Dissident Right call someone a fed or a shill or a loser just because that other person doesn't perfectly align with their niche worldview and practical approach.

      Who knows maybe AmRen will have success and drive the GOP rightwards like they've always envisioned. We have to play the long game and accept both strategies.

      Edit: Oops you asked for definitions. I'd say Spencer is trying to make a coherent and metapolitical basis for white advocacy whereas AmRen does practical, IRL conferences in the hopes of influencing the GOP and conservatives -- among others -- that white advocacy is normal and justified. Both have their own place.

      [–]Nombre27 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      seems never to bear any real fruit yet they persist.

      Operation Trust on a more microlevel, i.e. wait and keep spinning your wheels, vent/release, etc.

      I think AmRen just likes to toe the line as much as possible. I understand why they do this and think it's necessary. There are many paths that lead out of the cave most people are living in, hence all the "(blank) to Alt-Right pipeline" articles. A consistent piece of all these "blanks" begins with questioning something, e.g economics (libertarians/anti-affirmative action), women/feminism (redpill/MGTOWers/MRAs), history (revisionism), contemporary media (drag queen story hour, MSM narratives, etc.), NEETs to SIGers (aka "why does my life suck", Jordan Peterson and others), environmentalism (Ted, nuclear power, etc.), politics (Communists, neoconservatives, the only non-partisan issue), nature vs. nurture (biology is upstream of behavior which is upstream of all the social construct nonsense), to name a few. A second piece is actually being open-minded and having humility ("what am I wrong or misinformed about?"). Hence why we see the rise of factchecking nonsense (outsourcing executive functioning). Getting these two pieces in motion with someone, questioning something and then being receptive to new information, is a useful approach in deprogramming people. Find whatever they care about and then, to use our opponents language, deconstruct it through questioning.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Removed: Rule 1. I can approve it if you remove the linked image or crop out the last few panels.

      [–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Removed the link, sorry about that.

      [–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Removed the link.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [deleted]

        [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        These morons even watch his content on their livestreams

        Which streamers are doing this?

        [–]YJaewedwqewqClerical Fascist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Marxist: The Marxist camp would arguably be Fourth Positionist or simply within the False Dichotomy, but they are in essence racially conscious and socially "conservative" communists/Socialists, i.e. Nazbols. These people are veyr iffy and I wouldn't invest too much trust in them.

        Anti-Marxist "Left": The Anti-Marxist Reactionary Left would be Strasserists, Ba'athists, and other more economically left groups that are still definitely within our general grouping. I might put people like Keith Woods here, but I don't know how he specifically describes himself.

        Traditional "Far-Right": People like monarchists, national conservatives (the Otto von Bismarck type), general populists, etc. who are far more mainstream but still agree with many of our basic ideas. These guys are definitely more alt-lite or alt-right adjacent depending on their specific ideas, but still very much related (the fact that many don't want to be notwithstanding)

        National Socialists: Very hardline radical, and extremely race-centered. The ideological unity NatSocs have is very promising but as others have stated the average normie recoils in fear at anything compared even in passing to Hitler or his ideas, regardless of their merit.

        Clerical movement: There's a decent chunk of very radical Christians who (rightly) blame Jews and hold Third Positionist ideals (Clerical fascists, theocratic distributists, Positive Christianity, etc.) who definitely are at home within the Third Position/Dissident Right and use Christianity, often literal interpretation of the Bible, as a basis for their social views. Some disagreements are had within this group and without it about specifics and a few policies/philosophical approaches, but these groups tend to be very fervorous (if God is on your side and you know you'll win no matter what, why not be?). I would fall into this group.

        Alt-Lite: Generally pretty cucked, but good bridges between the Dissident Right and less radical versions of ourselves (see below), very good at "radicalizing"/waking up normies, but also good at getting them stuck in the alt-lite zone.

        Sympathetic Normies: Moderate cucks who sorta hold the general ideas of our movements. ChristDems/Solidarists, Conservative SocDems, moderate populists, etc would populate this category.

        You could probably create even more categories and even subcategories, but I think this is a decent overall view.

        [–][deleted]  (6 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

          Spencer is such a shill.

          [–][deleted]  (4 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

            No Jew here. Jesus was not a Jew in the def of modern day.

            [–][deleted]  (2 children)

            [deleted]

              [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              hahah, Spencer is Jewish mate and a homo shill; see here:

              https://spencergate.wordpress.com/2017/07/07/spencer-cryptojew/

              His former wife: https://spencergate.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/nina-kouprianova-%e2%98%ad/

              https://spencergate.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/tommy-robinson-%e2%9c%a1%ef%b8%8f/

              [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              You are not a Christian if you promote the Jew shill degenerate Spencer or any of the other Alt-right grifters.

              [–]peaceful✞ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              None of them articulate the bottom line issue, that all success depends on reaching the masses and having regular access to them.

              [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Christian here. Spencer is a homo shill. So, I'd say that you have the alternative right traditional movement which bans Jews and then all the other movements full of Jews scapegoating Esau.