How many Jews were actually killed in WW2?

submitted by casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter from self.debatealtright

David Irving himself believes that a lot of Jews had been killed by the SS. I personally believe that the gas chambers and auschwitz horror stories are all fabrications, as are the alleged mass killings of the Einsatzgruppen.

But a lot Jews still must have died regardless. They were responsible for communism and mass torture of slavs and balts in the USSR. A lot of Jewish killings were thus done by balts and ukrainians in retaliation.

German troops must've randomly killed a lot of Jews as well, owing to the anti-Jewish ideology of the reich and the Jews' heavy role as saboteurs and communists.

Furthermore, there's the question of geography. The Jews overwhelmingly lived in the lands of the old Polish Lithuanian commonwealth, which later became the pale of settlement. These lands were subject to mass starvation and disease in world war 2 due to German food shortages and allied bombing of infrastructure.

The Germans in a state of total mobilization after 1942 had to rely to a large extent on stealing food from conquered territories, mostly in the East. Plus, these lands(modern day Poland, Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine) were site of the most brutal fighting of the war.

The Dneiper campaign, the Battle of Brody, Uman, Kiev, Kharkov, Kursk counter-offensive, Biyalostok-Minsk, operation Bagration...the list is exhaustive. As the Soviets went on the offensive after victory of Kursk, these lands were subjected to the most ferocious combat in history.

The Germans using defense in depth tactics contested every inch and the Soviet applied crude and brutish tactics, flattening everything in front with enormous artillery barrages. My guess is that a lot of civilians died during the Soviet reconquest. From military action, starvation and homelessness.

Belarus for example lost more than a third of its people, Poland nearly a fourth.Ukraine also lost about a fifth. The Germans didn't go around systematically killing so many people, but the conditions of the war caused their deaths. My guess is that a lot of Jews were included in this as they heavily populated these regions.

At least 2 million Jews had to have died in the war. Perhaps it could be as high as 4 million, judging that the USSR in 1941 had 5.3 million Jews along with eastern Poland. German occupied Poland perhaps had another 2 million or so Jews. Hungary and Romania also would have nearly a million or so Jews as well. All similarly hated by the natives for subversion, hostility and communism.

These lands were also subjected to vicious battle during the Soviet counter-offensives. Out of roughly 8 million Jews in the east, assuming a 25% loss rate, we could chalk it up to 2 million.

A lot of people like to think only 200,000 died but doesn't really make sense. Israel only has 2.8 million Ashkenazi Jews. A million of this mind you came from the USSR after 1989. A lot is also owed to natural population growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews_in_Israel

There was a migration of Jews to the US after WW2, but it couldn't have been on the scale of 3-5 million. If only 200,000 Jews died in WW2 and there are only 2 million Jews in Europe today and 2.8 million Ashkenazi in Israel, then the numbers don't make sense.

The US for example, has about 7.1 million to 10 million Jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews

About 2.2 million Jews emigrated to the US from Russian from 1880 to 1924. A further 1 million came from 1990-2010 from the USSR.

Due to their high birth rates, they already numbered 5 million or so in 1945. Its not possible that 3-5 million Jews came from Europe after ww2.

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[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't care. 6 millon. 4 million. I don't give a fuck, and neither should you.

[–]Girondin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It does matter and it is what so many "woke" ideologies like "critical theory", "critical race theory", "queer theory", "blank slatism" are built on.

You could argue that communism atrocity is worse, that the allies believed roughly the same thing that the axis did but their is a uniqueness to the holocaust narrative, such as it happening in a "enlightened country", it being totally mechanized, it would have killed more then the communist atrocities if they won.

The fact that the European countries who successively reaffirmed traditional mores are all linked to the worst killings in human history brings obvious reason to suppress and be distrustful of far-right ideologies.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Is there, in your opinion, a definitive book or source on the topic? I've read some of

The Hoax of the Twentieth Century. The Case Against the Presumed Extermination of European Jewry Arthur R. Butz

Guy's still teaching electrical engineering at Northwestern University, holy shit.

[–]Girondin 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Debating the Holocaust by Thomas Dalton is pretty good. Only around 200 pages and covers it all.

[–]Fitter_HappierWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks, Found it in here along with many many more books on topic in one pdf.
Here they are separated.

[–]angryturtle 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It had to have been in the millions for the reasons already mentioned. Probably between 2-4. With a large numbers of those dying from disease. A tiny fraction of the 70-80 million people that died as a result of ww2.

This is why I get annoyed when people claim it was just 30,000 or 150,000 or some shit. You are chasing after a strawman that can be used to discredit you and make them seem like the truth seekers, when in fact they've clearly been lying and exaggerating the overall numbers and this almost certainly could be proven, or at least pointed out to be nearly impossible. It's a trap that many idiots fall for.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Best I can do is 0

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

0

[–]Girondin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

David Irving believes in the carbon monoxide gas chambers (operation Reinhard camps) and mass killings of the Einsatzgruppen. He however doesn't take this position rationally, he was jailed and fined up the wazoo for discussing the holocaust critically. He still will deny Auschwitz and zylkon b gas chamber. Which if you look at it rationally doesn't make much sense, their is scant eyewitness (I think one of them has literally has one or two eyewitnesses, I think treblinka?), no archeological evidence, impossible scenarios (incredible efficency with diesel exhaust, open fire to get rid of million bodies). The story holds up much better for Auschwitz.

Just because they were killing first doesn't justify the atrocity, it is questionable to think Hungarian Jews or most Jews were responsible for mass killing of slavs or communist atrocities. Im not saying they weren't instrumental in early soviet communism, nor loyal allies to soviet power, or that they didn't make a large military force (500,000 Jews served in the Soviet Red Army during World War II.), which makes Einsatzgruppen "death squads" no different then what the US did in vietnam, fight armed forces in a confusing territory.

2 million germans is claimed by the current german government died due to the soviet conquest. Most mainstream historians claim 500,000.

It cloud be as high as 2 million or 4 million, they died due to epidemics, malnutrition, diseases, mistreatment, but not a intentional campaign of putting in diesel exhaust or zylkon b chambers. All attributable to the war which killed millions of other ethnicities as well.