Opinions on the pandemic responses and lockdowns?

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[–]president_camacho 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Who is spending on a vaccine? Drug companies? Who cares. Of course we should pursue a vaccine, nobody wants to live with this stupid virus forever if it can be avoided. Its deadly enough to pretty much destroy any nations health care system long term. Its also unpredictable enough that should u get it, unless you're under 20 you could wind up with long term organ damage. Its not the flu.

[–]VarangianRasputin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This vaccine is kind of iffy though. It's unlike any other vaccine that's ever been produced, apparently. It fucks with your body so it makes more proteins to fight the Coronavirus. It's being rushed through most testing and all that shit. I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I will admit to being suspicious about this one, not necessarily because of malicious intent, but because of unintended side-effects. For all we know this vaccine could be more deadly on a mass-scale than they're trying to tell us COVID is.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact of the matter is that plasma transfusion of antibodies is already an improved method. Plasma transfusion is no big deal, it's known to be safe, and done all the time. There's also an abundance of possible donors because of how few people have a negative outcome with Covid. The issue is treating people with it prophylactically (either in advance or immediately). With how much the government has spent giving vaccine money to drug companies ($9B), that money could have gone to better use helping people that are high risk for severe reactions (elderly, pre-existing conditions, etc.).

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Plasma transfusion is no big deal, it's known to be safe, and done all the time.

Id be willing to bet the potential complications and side effects from plasma transfusion are greater than they are with almost any vaccine, and if you are that bad off you need it you will possibly have long term side effects from your covid illness. I doubt its a cheap therapy either. Seems odd you are for such a drastic treatment but think vaccines are a waste of time.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You don't appear to know what you're talking about if you think it's only private companies spending on this vaccine as well as thinking that this virus is deadly enough to destroy a countries healthcare system.

$9B federal spending on vaccine spread out to 7 drug companies

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/08/08/feds-spending-more-than-9-billion-covid-19-vaccine-candidates/5575206002/

$2.5B to Moderna

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fact-check-moderna-vaccine-funded-by-government-spending-with-notable-private-donation/ar-BB1bku1h

$1.95B from federal government to Pfizer

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/22/us-pays-1-95-billion-100-million-doses-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/5489964002/

Its also unpredictable enough that should u get it, unless you're under 20 you could wind up with long term organ damage.

What's the prevalence of that outcome? +97% of deaths are those over 60 and people that are already ill.

You sound like you're talking out of your ass. The people that need to be protected are the elderly, people with certain pre-existing conditions, and some others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7187881/

A meta-analysis comprising of 46,248 patients with confirmed COVID-19 found that the most common co-morbidities were hypertension (17%), diabetes (8%), and CVD (5%).36 CVD and hypertension have also been more prevalent in the severe patient group as compared to non-severe cases (odds ratio of 3.42 and 2.36, respectively).

My guess is those that suffered organ damage were already had damaged organs to begin with.

I look forward to your response with some data to support what you're asserting.

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So 13 billion has been spent subsidizing this research. Compared to probably 10s of trillions in economic damage and trillions more in deficit spending to counteract its affects(or more accurately the effects of their overreaction), and god knows how many hundreds of billions spent on treating people who wound up seriously sick, regardless of pre existing conditions, or who were sick enough to require treatment or scared enough to swamp emergency rooms and urgent care clinics. ER visits are never cheap.

My guess is those that suffered organ damage were already had damaged organs to begin with.

There's lots of evidence it's not that simple. Studies have found heart damage in otherwise healthy athletes that have gotten it. Lung damage is another recurring problem in some healthy people who got it, and a ton of relatively young people already have damaged lungs thanks to smoking/vaping and second hand smoke, asthma, and pollution. There's also evidence it can damage brain cells, blood vessels and kidneys. There's also increasing evidence its causing strokes in younger people. If you want proof of these studies google them, there are plenty of them to be found. I've read blood clotting problems seem to be a frequent result of the virus, and this isnt something you see with the flu. In fact there's speculation that may be the primary difference between this virus and the flu. There are plenty of examples of studies involving all of these if you google them. Obviously regardless of what the reality is, a successful vaccine makes it all a moot point no?

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don't care about your anecdotes. You did exactly what I thought you would which was to not actually cite any data. Thank you for your opinion.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of people absolutely do not need any vaccination shots to this as their immune system is perfectly capable of dealing with it. If you want to develop a vaccine, then figure out who your patients are first because it certainly isn't the entire population that needs it. Does any of that make sense to you?

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If you dont want to get a vaccine, dont get it. But as we've already pointed out, the costs of not developing one dwarf the costs of developing it. The Swedes have experimented with herd immunity(they even refused to recommend wearing masks), and have gotten nowhere with it. Their experiment largely failed. I happen to agree with them in not destroying your economy over reacting to it, they have a society that is very different from the US, where everything is ruled by fear of lawyers and lawsuits and people want to blame someone for anything bad that happens to them, but the herd immunity plan seems to have been an abysmal failure.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you for not providing any data to support your claims. What's the immune status of people in Sweden?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-21/sweden-says-covid-immunity-can-last-half-a-year-after-infection

but the herd immunity plan seems to have been an abysmal failure.

Yes because lockdowns, curfews, fines, and turning our countries into a medically hysterical police state is a much better solution.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31008-4

Our collective dataset shows that SARS-CoV-2 elicits broadly directed and functionally replete memory T cell responses, suggesting that natural exposure or infection may prevent recurrent episodes of severe COVID-19.

The fact of the matter is that the immune status of our populations is a huge information gap that needs to be filled.

New cases does not equal people that are ill. I haven't even seen data that necessarily describes positive cases as being unique new cases, i.e. a new person. There is a significant lack of information in this area.

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly this is not an issue I care that much about. Covid is pretty much something were stuck with for a long time regardless of what the conspiracy lolberts or liberal covid hysterics say or do. I'm generally anti lockdown, pro vaccine(with healthy skepticism), see wearing masks in public as common sense, and believe that many elites are using the pandemic to cause serious long term harm to their perceived ethnic enemies ie working class whites.

Beyond that I dont give a shit. I dont claim to know everything about this virus, I'm not an epidemiologist or medical expert, and as new information comes in my views may change. We'll survive the thing regardless and most people's health will be largely unaffected by it. If there's any positive to covid its that its likely dramatically accelerated the economic collapse of the Jewish dominated neoliberal economic order, which was likely going to collapse anyway, but now will do so when the US and Europe still have huge white populations. If you want to obsess over muh masks and muh vaccines feel free to do so. I got bigger fish to fry.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact of the matter is that the majority of people absolutely do not need any vaccination shots to this as their immune system is perfectly capable of dealing with it.

Lots of young people have lingering symptoms for months, lose their sense of smell and are sick for weeks. It doesn't kill young people but it can make you very sick.

Also vaccinating the majority of the population is needed for herd immunity.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also vaccinating the majority of the population is needed for herd immunity.

That's not necessarily true. We don't know the immune status of people that have gotten it, regardless of how it has affected them. Our immune system might be saving us millions or even billions of dollars. This is what should be investigated in advance of making a vaccine as it might render the vaccine unnecessary for a large proportion of the population. We simply don't know. Rushing a vaccine without knowing this information is irresponsible.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You don't appear to know what you're talking about if you think it's only private companies spending on this vaccine as well as thinking that this virus is deadly enough to destroy a countries healthcare system.

Far from the entire medical system has the right tools to fight a pandemic. The relavent parts off the medical systems in the west have been strained very hard.

$9B federal spending on vaccine spread out to 7 drug companies

Which is peanuts in the grand scale of things. The AstraZeneca vaccine costs a few dollars a shot.

What's the prevalence of that outcome? +97% of deaths are those over 60 and people that are already ill.

What society doesn't take care of old people?

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Far from the entire medical system has the right tools to fight a pandemic. The relavent parts off the medical systems in the west have been strained very hard.

The reason there is strain on the system is because of the misallocation of resources.

Which is peanuts in the grand scale of things. The AstraZeneca vaccine costs a few dollars a shot.

That isn't a few dollars a shot though. 100 million doses from Pfizer for almost $2B is $20 a shot and we don't even know if it's effective, if you need multiple shots, how long it lasts, etc. This is simply Big Pharma doing what it does.

What society doesn't take care of old people?

What's your point with this? Please don't be so vague in your statements in the future.

I'm saying this group is the one at the greatest risk of death and that current resource allocation and protocols are not reflective of that fact.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The reason there is strain on the system is because of the misallocation of resources.

No medical system in the world can handle a rush of the size we have seen.

That isn't a few dollars a shot though. 100 million doses from Pfizer for almost $2B is $20 a shot and we don't even know if it's effective, if you need multiple shots, how long it lasts, etc. This is simply Big Pharma doing what it does.

Very quickly developing a highly effective vaccine? If anyone has been in hero in this pandemic it is the vaccine developers. They have done an excellent job and delivered far more than expected. Also we have the data from the phase 3 trials and we know that they vaccines are highly effective and require two shots.

I'm saying this group is the one at the greatest risk of death and that current resource allocation and protocols are not reflective of that fact.

Young people can get very sick as well and get symptoms that drag on. The most effective way to handle a problem is to squash it which is what the Asians, Australians and some of the more based Eastern European countries did. This requires all age groups to participate.