all 26 comments

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Why are you falling for the psy-op that this is some doomsday virus? The death rate is miniscule, there has been no significant increase in deaths for this year. This lockdown nonsense has been put deliberately to have a massive wealth transfer from the middle class and small business owners to the financial class. The elites have fanned the flames on a minor epidemic no worse than the flu to pursue their Great Reset agenda. Initially the ruling class rightfully dismissed this, but as they realized the opportunity at hand they rapidly started recommending lockdowns and cashed in on the subsequent crash. Now 1/6 americans are going hungry while the stock markets are at all time highs (which only benefits the financial class and their servants).

[–]VraiBleuScots Protestant, Ulster Loyalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Where did he say it was a doomsday virus?

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

His implication that this is actually something that we need to worry about if we're under 90.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I said "I won't comment on the origin of the virus and nature of the pandemic and whether its overblown or not", by this I meant I don't have a strong opinion whether it is "nothing" or doomsday (I definitely don't think it's a apocalyptic virus). From what I know anecdotally and from what I've read, the virus mostly effects the old yes and the death roll in that demographic is potentially serious but the "hype" about the virus is at the very least mildly overblown (many countries report almost empty hospitals, etc). I still think it should be something that taken seriously, serious travel restrictions should have been imposed. I agree with your point about them dismissing it and then utilising it.

[–]Wrangel 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The elites in the west have shown how bad they are at handling a crisis. A crisis wasn't a part of their globalist worldview with endless 3% economic growth. In the spring they were running around with their hair on fire unable to act decisively. Supply chains broke down because they are very fragile and globalized, there was minimal preparedness for a crisis. Our politicians couldn't even close the boarders when there was a virus flowing in. The elites were so eager to dump the working class for higher profits that they had set up an economy reliant on dozens of giant airliners flying from Wuhan to the west everyday. Milan and northern Italy was hit very hard because they have tens of thousands of Chinese people sewing clothes in the Italian fashion industry even though Italy has high unemployment.

Pandemics are normal and happen from time to time. Our leaders have swallowed their own end of history propaganda so hard that they didn't even think they needed to prepare for one. There was barely any testing during the spring because defence spending is spent getting the military industrial complex fat and fighting wars for Israel instead of actually defending the country.

A heavily polarized country with huge ethnic divides, lots of illegal immigrants and a broken medical system can't handle a pandemic. Testing and contact tracing doesn't work when you don't even know how many millions of people are in the country. In the end most of the west got a garbled bunch of half measures that didn't achieve much. Countries like Japan, Taiwan, Kina, South Korea and Vietnam showed that strong leadership can squash a crisis before it becomes a big problem. Our politicians have killed hundreds of thousands of people and tanked their economy because they are useless talking heads.

[–]president_camacho 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Strict travel measures and quarantining should have been issued very early on when this first hit. China should have been effectively quaratined. No one goes in and no one comes out. Liberals and especially jews would have squawked up a storm and accused everyone of being a nazi, which is literally what they did early if anyone even suggested such a thing. Something the media has since memory holed.

That was the one chance u had to do something effective to prevent a pandemic. Once u had numerous cases outside china and in the US it was too late. After that all u could do is enforce mask wearing, ban most mass gatherings like concerts and pro sports events and jail and fine rioters and protestors, protect obvious vulnerable populations like nursing homes and let the virus run its course until a vaccine is developed.

[–]Nombre27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Deaths attributed to Covid are primarily (+97%) people over 60. This doesn't even factor in whether or not these people solely died from Covid, i.e. what were their co-morbidities, how was Covid infection verified, how was pathophysiology (damage) of Covid verified, etc. This is the vulnerable population. For people that end up really sick, the over 60 crowd is about 60% of these cases. For the remainder of that (40%), again I would look at health status and co-morbidities/pre-existing conditions.

One little talked about thing is the 1000% mortality rate for people with Down syndrome. Another vulnerable population mostly ignored. Also, look at asthmatics. Lower risk, pretty weird.

https://www.acpjournals.org/na101/home/literatum/publisher/acp/journals/content/aim/0/aim.ahead-of-print/m20-4986/20201021/images/large/m204986ff1.jpeg

from

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4986

The fact of the matter is that most people that get and have gotten Covid are perfectly fine. You can even use the plasma from these people as a treatment for others. It has to be given in the early stages though (<3 days). It does reduce mortality, illness and other effects of Covid.

https://ajp.amjpathol.org/article/S0002-9440(20)30489-2/fulltext

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.12.20169359v1

Right now, scientists are putting out stupid articles like this because they improperly used this therapeutic and gave it too late.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4072

I think pursuing this for high-risk and letting the rest of the population go on with their lives would have been less invasive and less costly (we're likely in the hundreds of billions if not trillions in this when you factor vaccine spending and losses from the economy). The flipside to this is actually determining the immune status of your local population. Ioannidis did this back in April and found that they had underestimated the prevalence by 50- to 85-fold. These were people that had Covid antibodies and never knew they were sick as they never bothered to get tested. I'm not sure if these numbers are applicable elsewhere, but even if the underestimation is of a lower magnitude, the fact of the matter is that you need to have tests and data of the immune status of your population.

All this spending on a vaccine is likely entirely unnecessary.

[–]president_camacho 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Who is spending on a vaccine? Drug companies? Who cares. Of course we should pursue a vaccine, nobody wants to live with this stupid virus forever if it can be avoided. Its deadly enough to pretty much destroy any nations health care system long term. Its also unpredictable enough that should u get it, unless you're under 20 you could wind up with long term organ damage. Its not the flu.

[–]VarangianRasputin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This vaccine is kind of iffy though. It's unlike any other vaccine that's ever been produced, apparently. It fucks with your body so it makes more proteins to fight the Coronavirus. It's being rushed through most testing and all that shit. I'm not an anti-vaxer, but I will admit to being suspicious about this one, not necessarily because of malicious intent, but because of unintended side-effects. For all we know this vaccine could be more deadly on a mass-scale than they're trying to tell us COVID is.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact of the matter is that plasma transfusion of antibodies is already an improved method. Plasma transfusion is no big deal, it's known to be safe, and done all the time. There's also an abundance of possible donors because of how few people have a negative outcome with Covid. The issue is treating people with it prophylactically (either in advance or immediately). With how much the government has spent giving vaccine money to drug companies ($9B), that money could have gone to better use helping people that are high risk for severe reactions (elderly, pre-existing conditions, etc.).

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Plasma transfusion is no big deal, it's known to be safe, and done all the time.

Id be willing to bet the potential complications and side effects from plasma transfusion are greater than they are with almost any vaccine, and if you are that bad off you need it you will possibly have long term side effects from your covid illness. I doubt its a cheap therapy either. Seems odd you are for such a drastic treatment but think vaccines are a waste of time.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You don't appear to know what you're talking about if you think it's only private companies spending on this vaccine as well as thinking that this virus is deadly enough to destroy a countries healthcare system.

$9B federal spending on vaccine spread out to 7 drug companies

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/08/08/feds-spending-more-than-9-billion-covid-19-vaccine-candidates/5575206002/

$2.5B to Moderna

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fact-check-moderna-vaccine-funded-by-government-spending-with-notable-private-donation/ar-BB1bku1h

$1.95B from federal government to Pfizer

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/22/us-pays-1-95-billion-100-million-doses-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/5489964002/

Its also unpredictable enough that should u get it, unless you're under 20 you could wind up with long term organ damage.

What's the prevalence of that outcome? +97% of deaths are those over 60 and people that are already ill.

You sound like you're talking out of your ass. The people that need to be protected are the elderly, people with certain pre-existing conditions, and some others.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7187881/

A meta-analysis comprising of 46,248 patients with confirmed COVID-19 found that the most common co-morbidities were hypertension (17%), diabetes (8%), and CVD (5%).36 CVD and hypertension have also been more prevalent in the severe patient group as compared to non-severe cases (odds ratio of 3.42 and 2.36, respectively).

My guess is those that suffered organ damage were already had damaged organs to begin with.

I look forward to your response with some data to support what you're asserting.

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So 13 billion has been spent subsidizing this research. Compared to probably 10s of trillions in economic damage and trillions more in deficit spending to counteract its affects(or more accurately the effects of their overreaction), and god knows how many hundreds of billions spent on treating people who wound up seriously sick, regardless of pre existing conditions, or who were sick enough to require treatment or scared enough to swamp emergency rooms and urgent care clinics. ER visits are never cheap.

My guess is those that suffered organ damage were already had damaged organs to begin with.

There's lots of evidence it's not that simple. Studies have found heart damage in otherwise healthy athletes that have gotten it. Lung damage is another recurring problem in some healthy people who got it, and a ton of relatively young people already have damaged lungs thanks to smoking/vaping and second hand smoke, asthma, and pollution. There's also evidence it can damage brain cells, blood vessels and kidneys. There's also increasing evidence its causing strokes in younger people. If you want proof of these studies google them, there are plenty of them to be found. I've read blood clotting problems seem to be a frequent result of the virus, and this isnt something you see with the flu. In fact there's speculation that may be the primary difference between this virus and the flu. There are plenty of examples of studies involving all of these if you google them. Obviously regardless of what the reality is, a successful vaccine makes it all a moot point no?

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don't care about your anecdotes. You did exactly what I thought you would which was to not actually cite any data. Thank you for your opinion.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of people absolutely do not need any vaccination shots to this as their immune system is perfectly capable of dealing with it. If you want to develop a vaccine, then figure out who your patients are first because it certainly isn't the entire population that needs it. Does any of that make sense to you?

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If you dont want to get a vaccine, dont get it. But as we've already pointed out, the costs of not developing one dwarf the costs of developing it. The Swedes have experimented with herd immunity(they even refused to recommend wearing masks), and have gotten nowhere with it. Their experiment largely failed. I happen to agree with them in not destroying your economy over reacting to it, they have a society that is very different from the US, where everything is ruled by fear of lawyers and lawsuits and people want to blame someone for anything bad that happens to them, but the herd immunity plan seems to have been an abysmal failure.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you for not providing any data to support your claims. What's the immune status of people in Sweden?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-21/sweden-says-covid-immunity-can-last-half-a-year-after-infection

but the herd immunity plan seems to have been an abysmal failure.

Yes because lockdowns, curfews, fines, and turning our countries into a medically hysterical police state is a much better solution.

https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)31008-4

Our collective dataset shows that SARS-CoV-2 elicits broadly directed and functionally replete memory T cell responses, suggesting that natural exposure or infection may prevent recurrent episodes of severe COVID-19.

The fact of the matter is that the immune status of our populations is a huge information gap that needs to be filled.

New cases does not equal people that are ill. I haven't even seen data that necessarily describes positive cases as being unique new cases, i.e. a new person. There is a significant lack of information in this area.

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly this is not an issue I care that much about. Covid is pretty much something were stuck with for a long time regardless of what the conspiracy lolberts or liberal covid hysterics say or do. I'm generally anti lockdown, pro vaccine(with healthy skepticism), see wearing masks in public as common sense, and believe that many elites are using the pandemic to cause serious long term harm to their perceived ethnic enemies ie working class whites.

Beyond that I dont give a shit. I dont claim to know everything about this virus, I'm not an epidemiologist or medical expert, and as new information comes in my views may change. We'll survive the thing regardless and most people's health will be largely unaffected by it. If there's any positive to covid its that its likely dramatically accelerated the economic collapse of the Jewish dominated neoliberal economic order, which was likely going to collapse anyway, but now will do so when the US and Europe still have huge white populations. If you want to obsess over muh masks and muh vaccines feel free to do so. I got bigger fish to fry.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fact of the matter is that the majority of people absolutely do not need any vaccination shots to this as their immune system is perfectly capable of dealing with it.

Lots of young people have lingering symptoms for months, lose their sense of smell and are sick for weeks. It doesn't kill young people but it can make you very sick.

Also vaccinating the majority of the population is needed for herd immunity.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also vaccinating the majority of the population is needed for herd immunity.

That's not necessarily true. We don't know the immune status of people that have gotten it, regardless of how it has affected them. Our immune system might be saving us millions or even billions of dollars. This is what should be investigated in advance of making a vaccine as it might render the vaccine unnecessary for a large proportion of the population. We simply don't know. Rushing a vaccine without knowing this information is irresponsible.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You don't appear to know what you're talking about if you think it's only private companies spending on this vaccine as well as thinking that this virus is deadly enough to destroy a countries healthcare system.

Far from the entire medical system has the right tools to fight a pandemic. The relavent parts off the medical systems in the west have been strained very hard.

$9B federal spending on vaccine spread out to 7 drug companies

Which is peanuts in the grand scale of things. The AstraZeneca vaccine costs a few dollars a shot.

What's the prevalence of that outcome? +97% of deaths are those over 60 and people that are already ill.

What society doesn't take care of old people?

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Far from the entire medical system has the right tools to fight a pandemic. The relavent parts off the medical systems in the west have been strained very hard.

The reason there is strain on the system is because of the misallocation of resources.

Which is peanuts in the grand scale of things. The AstraZeneca vaccine costs a few dollars a shot.

That isn't a few dollars a shot though. 100 million doses from Pfizer for almost $2B is $20 a shot and we don't even know if it's effective, if you need multiple shots, how long it lasts, etc. This is simply Big Pharma doing what it does.

What society doesn't take care of old people?

What's your point with this? Please don't be so vague in your statements in the future.

I'm saying this group is the one at the greatest risk of death and that current resource allocation and protocols are not reflective of that fact.

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The reason there is strain on the system is because of the misallocation of resources.

No medical system in the world can handle a rush of the size we have seen.

That isn't a few dollars a shot though. 100 million doses from Pfizer for almost $2B is $20 a shot and we don't even know if it's effective, if you need multiple shots, how long it lasts, etc. This is simply Big Pharma doing what it does.

Very quickly developing a highly effective vaccine? If anyone has been in hero in this pandemic it is the vaccine developers. They have done an excellent job and delivered far more than expected. Also we have the data from the phase 3 trials and we know that they vaccines are highly effective and require two shots.

I'm saying this group is the one at the greatest risk of death and that current resource allocation and protocols are not reflective of that fact.

Young people can get very sick as well and get symptoms that drag on. The most effective way to handle a problem is to squash it which is what the Asians, Australians and some of the more based Eastern European countries did. This requires all age groups to participate.

[–]VarangianRasputin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Frankly I'm not convinced that this is the Systems Coup De Grace like some people have been saying. Personally, I think it's the result of a government that really doesn't care and a media that thrives on hysteria. The media have a vested interested in fear-mongering because it's what gets views. This virus mostly kills fat old people (out of the few it genuinely does kill), and who is mostly over-represented in our governments? Fat Old Boomers. Plus, supermarkets and big businesses win out because they can inflate prices while any independent competition dies out.

Let's call this hysteria what it is, it's the Capitalist Plutocrats rolling up a storm because they can make money. The vast majority of people I know irl (most of them leftists btw) all think this virus is a load of shit. Nobody but a few useful idiots really believe this shit.

[–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is definitely a positive feedback loop of overreaction. One locale sees what another locale is doing and tries to one-up them, but that place they looked at was trying to one-up another place, ad infinitum. Now we're stuck with excessive protocols that don't make any sense and since they aren't effective or well-reasoned to begin with, when they fail they just get worse instead of looking at the alternatives that they should have in the first place.

[–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Theres another reason for the media hysteria. Trump was president. They saw it as an opportunity to hammer Trump as being incompetent and directly responsible for peoples deaths. Aain ignoring their own culpability in opposing methods to avoid its spread from China, which they also did to simply oppose Trump.

The hysteria also stems from media hostility towards working class whites, who have been impacted the hardest by lockdown measures and are the most skeptical of these measures. When blacks and liberals attended mass blm protests they didnt say shit, but if some working class whites losing their livelyhoods protest they pounce. They naturally also backed off the demonization when orthodox Jews protested against bans of mass gatherings.

[–]VarangianRasputin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not much to say than I have full agreement. They've really overplayed their hand this time.