Opinions on the Confederacy?

submitted by [deleted] from self.debatealtright

Personally, I'm not fully informed on the subject and I don't have a strong opinion on the Confederacy really, mostly because I've never read much about the ACW or been interested in it compared to other historical events. I don't have a positive view of slavery, but I accept it was the norm for much of history in all civilisations, and while I imagine it was a big motivator I'm sceptical of the portrayal of the conflict as a moral crusade against slavers without any other economic or social context. All Southerners I have spoken to seem to admire the Confederacy as a symbol of Dixie identity and resistance to Northern tyranny (personally I am neutral on the whole North v South debate).

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[–]VarangianRasputin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

While they certainly had the right to secede from the Union, I find it difficult to like them. Slavery is fucking awful, it's worse than killing a man. People forget that, while Blacks are Blacks, they are still Human, and to hold a man in chains at the cost of his natural human freedom is immoral. Forced Labour from P.O.Ws and such during War I think is justifiable, but a bunch of men being the literal property of another, living on the bare essentials and filling their owners pockets is downright wrong.

Coupled with Lincoln's (unfulfilled) promise that he'd send the Blacks back to Liberia, if I was around at the time, I'd probably have supported the Union.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

they are still Human

doubt

But yeah blacks should've been allowed to remain in their natural lifestyles. Enslaving them and then attempting to civilize them made blacks miserable while harming the rest of us with their exploding population and relentless violence.

a bunch of men being the literal property of another, living on the bare essentials and filling their owners pockets is downright wrong

Most people today are in a pretty similar situation, though unlike with the slaves the door is open for them to escape the moment they leave their mental chains and take some risks.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

But yeah blacks should've been allowed to remain in their natural lifestyles. Enslaving them and then attempting to civilize them made blacks miserable while harming the rest of us with their exploding population and relentless violence.

Strong disagree.

Civilizations inevitably collide whether we like it or not. Everyone is currently an 8 hour plane ride away and interaction with sub-Saharans is going to become really common in the next 50 years. You can't just ignore billions of primitives anymore, they will play a part in your life.

Like the Nordics 2k years ago, the sub-Saharans need to be civilized one way or another. That will take growing pain and rough selective pressure on their populaces- there is no room in society for low-impulse control/low intelligence savages and those genetic attributes need to die.

Evolution does happen rapidly and blacks can civilize. There are subsets of Nigeria and other African countries that show promise but they are the minority by a big margin; they need to become the norm. Luckily, we've seen other populations do it before.

[–]TheSalemander 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

That is untrue, we hold no obligation to "uplift" them. Civilization is something that is historically earned. If Africans wish to develop further it should not be our job to do it for them.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Then they will continue to destroy your civilization. This libertarian horseshit of "not my job/not my problem" needs to die. You are not getting rid of the Africans nor are you separating from them even in your wildest fantasy. You need a way forward that is feasible.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

You can just close your borders and defend your nation against invaders. As long as you have enough bullets and bombs, I doubt a billion can seep through the cracks.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You have an ironic username that conveys my response

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You fail to understand the will to power. If you have a strong military, invaders won't be able to march into your country and take it over.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

That's not even close to how reality works.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

How is it not?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's how it works literally everywhere except white countries. Let's see invaders get anywhere near Israel, Russia or China.

[–]antireddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why would we not seperate from them in our wildest fantasy? Seems like the simplest solution should things continue to get worse in the US and we see some degree of system collapse and racial violence increases, as seems likely. Im not talking about segregation, but separation, with some form states formed along racial or ethnic lines. Whites arent going to tolerate continuous violence and hatred against them forever, and blacks dont seem like they are getting any less antiwhite, so separation at some point might be the most humane solution for all involved. Why wouldnt it be feasible?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your ancestors thought the same thing.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If blacks were just left wild in Africa nothing would've happened lmao. The cost of civilizing them is far greater than the cost of making them disappear.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. People might laugh but I came to the alt right because I was passionate about helping blacks and Hispanics live their best lives. I was even willing to sacrifice my own life and sanity to help non white people. I found no true answer to fixing the plight that many blacks and non white groups find themselves in as they flounder in the harsh western judeo capitalist world. I found no answers in democrat or republican talking points. Just empty rhetoric and more crime and poverty. In fact I found the only other people willing to sacrifice their lives to help brown people were white people. Then it dawned on me. Why should I try to help people that won't help themselves? Why should I help people that want to organize and tear down everything I love? It was only after I got the redpills from that alt right that my racial consciousness began to grow. I stopped seeing whites as the cause of brown squalor. One of my favorite quotes is by Mr. Rogers. He tells a story about watching the news and being scared. Here's the quote. I started seeing that all the helpers were white. My racial consiouness exploded inside of me and beats strongly today.

I come from a family of humanist catholic bleeding heart types obsessed with leading moral lives and especially obsessed with community building/welfare work/taking care of the downtrodden. I have family members that have been in government positions and several elected to high office. One was nearly a vice president. It bothers me to no end that the alt right is constantly smeared as this group that wants to genocide or re-enslave blacks. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I look up to the German people who for the most part resisted getting involved in colonization and slavery. I also look up to the German people who identified the enemy of humanity anti humans known as the Jews who perpetuated human slavery by being the leading financial force in the trans Atlantic slave trade.

I've learned in my life that you can't just be blindly compassionate. If you really love something you have to be willing to defend it against those that would destroy it.

[–]antireddit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I can admire their impressive military feats, but ultimately they were a corrupt immoral state based on chattel slavery. Today they are just an antiquated relic of history from a bygone era, with nothing we can really learn from or base anything off.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Freedom fighters going against a force too great for them to triumph against. Its kind of like Japan vs USA in WW2. Japan never stood a chance but fought heroically.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Traitors who fought for one of the dumbest causes ever - to keep black slaves, breed them & import even more of them. Now, consisder the fact that the slaves would inevitably be freed. I think it's kinda obvious that if the southerners had won the war, their country wouldn't even resemble Brazil right now. It would resemble Africa.

[–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

& import even more of them

The importation of slaves was banned in 1807, 60 years before the war even started.

If the Confederacy won independence, they wouldn't have their economy destroyed, and probably would have some kind of apartheid on their own terms

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The importation of slaves was banned in 1807, 60 years before the war even started.

True. But considering the fact the southernerns loved their slaves so much they were willing to secede and start a war over the right to keep them, it's entirely possible that they would have started importing them again after the war to "boost the economy".

and probably would have some kind of apartheid on their own terms

Sooner or later, the apartheid would have come to an end as well, and the South's white population still would be forced to live with extremely large masses of blacks.

Anyway, we can speculate all day about what would the South be like had it won the war. But the truth is, the only solution to the black problem is deporting them all back to Africa. Apartheids and other forms of segregation do nothing but postpone the inevitable. This is why I have always admired Lincoln who was willing to solve this problem, only to get killed by a retarded confederate supporter.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please educate yourself. Spread this video far and wide- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPiDqUB9k1I

It's an interview of a confederate regular and his opinion of the politics at the time. Spoiler alert, he didn't own slaves and had no ill will towards Africans. 99% of the south never owned slaves and were fighting for their homes and culture (as in hospitality and day to day life, hill-billies in Tennessee had nothing to do with blacks) just like EVERYONE ELSE was fighting for in wars before Vietnam where mass media made war political.

If you want to call anyone evil in the Confederacy, then bring your anger towards the plantations and the government doing financials. The regular soldiers and everyday citizens were indifferent about the politics and just wanted their lives left intact. A best case scenario would have been the lynching of the slave owners and the repatriation of the slaves in Ghana/Liberia with a good-will check.

[–]Whuchurface 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZvxgABYPA0

[–]deAccount 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The mistake was owning slaves in the first place. Enlightenment values gradually caused people to hate slavery over a few centuries, and once it was abolished, people then failed to recognize outside ethnic groups as invaders for the first time in history. After another century of social justice activism, they warmed up to the idea of allowing "refugees" to enter their countries, and social justice has continued to the point of white ethnic masochism becoming the norm like it is today.

That's what's so dangerous about progressivism, it's paved with so many good intentions, but it all leads to the situation of today. It's really the ultimate slippery slope, nothing seems wrong until it has gotten to a point where our very existence is at jeopardy. As such, the better solution would've been to never own slaves, just keep everyone else out the same way that every other country on Earth does.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Enlightenment values gradually caused people to hate slavery over a few centuries

lol no, capitalists just figured out it was cheaper and easier to create wage slaves that you have no obligation to clothe, house, feed, look after their health etc since if someone dies you can just replace them with the unemployed. Rationalisation, increasing population to increase the labour supply and advancements in technology made slavery redundant, not some faggot enlightenment nonsense.

[–]Minedwe 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In some ways I admire them but in others they were obviously wrong. Slavery is immoral, not very useful, and sinful. However their response and defiance to Northern aggression tyranny, etc. seal them as brave and resourceful, especially considering their almost complete lack of industry. The Union had all the resources, factories, money, etc. but still somehow the South made and bought repeaters and even ironclad warships.

The South today however is mostly a shithole. It's full of NeoCons and PaleoCons who are just as bad as liberals in a lot of ways. Not to mention the huge black population (Gee, I wonder where THAT problem sprouted from?) and extreme poverty.

On the other hand, that is not to say I like the Union. In short, both sides were pretty depraved, shortsighted, and each embodied different ideas that our movement should and does stand against, such as disgusting materialism, faux democracy and ""Freedom"", etc.

[–]Marginotions 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Heads up on where to look for interesting 1860s stuff: Quora.com https://duckduckgo.com/?q=civil+war+quora&t=hk&ia=web I'm for Old South and Dixie, but ditto on nix slavery. It was a poorly competitive system, doomed from the economic perspective, so we did not need a horribly destructive war to resolve the issue quickly. The war was mainly about Federally imposed tariffs which were coming up in the Lincoln presidency. See Abbeville Inst.

Do we need a s/dixie sub on saidit? I'm about to post a query here.