all 26 comments

[–]FlippyKing 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I think the drug companies found out a while ago that if we really understood how our body's immune system worked and how to keep it fed nutritionally and keep it healthy through exercise and rest and hygiene, they would be out of business. Covid might be waking some of us up to that reality now.

[–]aaarrgh 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Every pill of the doctor is poison. But they call it 'medicine'.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, now this is just stupid. Ugh, the stupid, it hurts.

[–]HibikiBlackCaudillo[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

So with the whole Corona thing I thought we should know about alternative approaches to medicine and how effective they can be according to others.

Some German scientists found that Vitamin D is very effective in boosting the inmune system, probably even more than the usual vaccines. When it comes to the whole Corona context I think even Fauci himself adviced people to take Vitamin D. I think the effects of sunlight in the body are one of the most interesting results I've ever seen. People are overall more active, happy and sleep a lot better by being exposed to the sun.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Some German scientists found that Vitamin D is very effective in boosting the inmune system

What does that mean?

Does it mean that it also increases autoimmune disorders like rheumatoid arthritis and allergies?

[–]Basghetti 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Not necessarily. Immune response is complicated as hell.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166406/

Deficiency in vitamin D is associated with increased autoimmunity as well as an increased susceptibility to infection. As immune cells in autoimmune diseases are responsive to the ameliorative effects of vitamin D, the beneficial effects of supplementing vitamin D deficient individuals with autoimmune disease may extend beyond the effects on bone and calcium homeostasis.

Vitamin D has also been shown to facilitate progression of existing autoimmune disease. In one study, 161 patients with an early undifferentiated connective tissue disease were followed for a mean of over 2 years[25]. Most patients did not progress and remained in an undifferentiated state. Thirty-five (21%) patients went on to develop a defined rheumatologic diagnosis including RA, SLE, Mixed Connective Tissue Disease, and Sjogren’s Disease while 126 did not progress. Baseline characteristics of the two groups were similar. Importantly, the mean vitamin D level was significantly lower in the group that progressed to a definitive disease.

[–]ActuallyNot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Right.

I wonder what he meant by "boosting the inmune system".

[–]Basghetti 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Alright, did you read the entirety of the study that I linked over to you? I'll need to know what parts you're looking at and have questions on in particular to try to help. It goes over the immunomodulatory effects that vitamin D has, and how it's understood to be utilized within the immune response processes. So boosting the immune system likely just means making it more efficient, and providing it with adequate amounts of sufficient systemic vitamin D to use.

The extrarenal 1-α-hydroxylase enzyme in macrophages differs from the renal hydroxylase as it is not regulated by PTH[5]. Instead, it is dependent upon circulating levels of 25 D or it may be induced by cytokines such as IFN-γ, IL-1 or TNF-α[6]. Furthermore, the macrophage 24 hydroxylase enzyme is a non-functional splice variant, so there is no negative feedback of local 1,25 D production by 1,25 D.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So "boosting" here means having it working, as opposed to limited by vitamin D insufficiency.

What do you think he means by "The whole immune system would become measurably stronger by a factor of 3 to 5 times"?

Is there one number that measures the whole immune system?

And your link only talks about the effect on the adaptive immune system. The whole immune system would normally include the primary immune responses too wouldn't it?

[–]AcceleratedWallops 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've been taking Vitamin D supplements for years and still caught covid.

But yeah, D is great

[–]WhoFlu 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's important to state D3 and Zinc aren't supposed to be "cures," or act like vaccines. They do however make your body much more able to fight and survive the virus. Plus they're amazing for your health in general.

Most of the people pushing the angle that it's supposed to prevent Covid, are people who are against D and Zinc.

[–]WhoFlu 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Regardless of Covid, both Vitamin D and Zinc are amazing for your health. Especially males, Zinc increases your testosterone.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

"The whole immune system would become measurably stronger by a factor of 3 to 5 times"

It's not obvious what that might mean. There's many aspects to the immune system. I'm not aware of a single metric that measures the whole thing with a numerical value.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Are you questioning the science? Civilized people respect science and obey without question.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

He's obviously speaking in a science-communication to the unfamiliar-with-the-immune system manner. And perhaps that's a good thing. Scholarly writing on the recent findings about vitamin d and the immune system aren't especially easy reading for someone unfamiliar with the basic biochemistry of the immune system.

But 3-5 times increase in all aspects of the immune system implies a 3-5 times higher fever. That's not at all a good thing, and if vitamin D caused that, everyone would be avoiding vitamin D, because it would make mild infections fatal. The guy needs to break it down a bit, because what he's saying isn't plausible.

It's certainly true that people with sufficient vitamin d have lower cancer rates, but the cause and effect is complicated. For instance, supplementing with vitamin d does not produce the benefit.

What I'm saying is what is usually true of what guys in lab coats say on YouTube channels: I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

because what he's saying isn't plausible.

Are you a scientist? No. Then stop contradicting the experts. They tell us the truth.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It's worth noting that my two links are both more recent than the youtube video, so the scientific information contained would be more current.

But back to the "expert". Is your interpretation of "The whole immune system would become measurably stronger by a factor of 3 to 5 times" that primary immune responses such as fever are "3 to 5 times" stronger?

And when a fever is "3 times stronger" does that mean to you that where a fever would elevate your temperature by 2 degrees, it would instead be elevated by 6 degrees?

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Non-scientists doubting scientists is anti-intellectual. Please stop. This is a bannable offense on YouTube.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Non-scientists doubting scientists is anti-intellectual.

Trying to understand what the current state of the science is isn't anti-intellectual. Nor is calling out a particular scientist for going to the public with claims that aren't accepted by science.

This is a bannable offense on YouTube.

Spreading misinformation is bannable on youtube. Wondering what the fuck can possibly be meant by "The whole immune system would become measurably stronger by a factor of 3 to 5 times" isn't misinformation.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That's the whole point! You're not qualified to make such a judgement!

Are you a scientist? No. You are not. So how do you get to judge statements of fact by scientists?

Even if you are a scientist, which you are not, are you in the same field? Are you a specialist in immunology? If not then YOU are the one spreading misinformation!

I don't get how this is so hard to process. It's straightforward and is a point that has been hammered home again and again over the past two years. You must have internalized it by now.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's the whole point! You're not qualified to make such a judgement!

By finding current and mainstream scientific opinion in the peer reviewed literature.

Supplementing Vitamin D has a small but positive effect on reducing acute respiratory infections. Something like 9% reduced incidence. That's due to vitamin D derivatives being important in multiple parts of the adaptive immune response.

It is also well short of the effect of the vaccines with respect to Covid-19.

The late Dr Prendergast in the youtube video, does not actually contradict that. He says that German scientists in the 1920s thought that the vitamin D supplementation was better than any vaccine was likely to be. But that is in the context of bird flu and the 1920s, and Germany between the wars.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm qualified to wonder what the fuck he's talking about, and know enough infectious diseases to know that "The whole immune system would become measurably stronger by a factor of 3 to 5 times" is bullshit.

No, you're not! You're not a scientist! You're not a subject matter expert. Shut up! You're lucky this is a free speech site. On any other corporate controlled platform you'd be silenced for spreading disinformation. And rightly so.

[–]Popper 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

too many vitamin D pills causes heart problems. You have to get it thru sunlight but that's tough in climates that are too far north