That’s why there can be no losing for the West in Ukraine. To the Mackinderists at the top of the power structures in London, Washington D.C. and Brussels, losing Ukraine means losing the entire world, because they have this very-outdated view of world geography.

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[–]iamonlyoneman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Narrator: But they would lose Ukraine

[–]Dune1032 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

Doesn't the author of the article remember the 1930s? Hitler did not stop with the Sudetenland; he continued his aggression. Every country he conquered made him more powerful. If Putin conquers Ukraine, Russia will become more powerful because it will control the resources of Ukraine. Putin will not stop with Ukraine because his policies are at odds with the West.

[–]SoCo 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

That makes no sense due to Putin having no interest in conquered Ukraine. West Ukraine has been fighting East Ukraine since before 2014. Russia got pissed that everyone began ignoring it and its atrocities to Ukrainians with Russian heritage.

[–]Dune1032 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No. Putin wants all of Ukraine because Ukraine was once part of Russia.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You should check out the history of Ukraine during the World Wars, and prior. You'd see how ridiculous that is to say.

(and not just the mostly defaced Wikipedia page)

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Britain and France gave Hitler the Sudetenland hoping it would appease him. It didn't. He next annexed all of Czechoslovakia. Then he claimed that the Polish Corridor belonged to Germany. Putin will not stop with East Ukraine.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Putin only entered office in 2012, so your association of Hitler's actions and intentions, in correlation with projections of you think Putin may personally want, doesn't make much logical or historical sense.

Even though Russia is not the Soviet Union, you might be interested in the slight-irony of your position, considering the Soviets occupied Ukraine, then Nazis overtook it (or parts of it), which some called liberating it, but then the Soviets later took it back once again. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine declared independence. Ukraine was, even more so than now, largely made of a Soviet speaking and a Soviet heritage population. Many Soviet-Ukrainians left to Russia to help rebuild from the collapsed Soviet Union and constitute an integral part of Russia. Of course, today, the number of Russian speaking Ukrainian and with Russian heritage, is still significant.

Which lead's to 10 year long war...

Later, Moscow vowed to protect the Russian-speaking people of Crimea when Ukraine chose Russia's over the US/UK financial deal in 2014 and suddenly Ukraine was a war zone of civilian protesters, mercenaries, and suspiciously lots of US/EU involvement. Regardless of what anyone thinks, it seems Moscow determined the Ukrainian revolution was a US/EU ruse and a coup with a cover story, in violations of previous US, UK, and Russia treaties with Ukraine to disarm their nuclear weapons (Soviet leftovers from after the World Wars), this is when they annexed Crimea.

Half of Ukraine also didn't seem to support the new leadership or circumstances of it unfolded, creating a deep divide int he people and sparking a 10 year long war of US/EU-supporting East Ukrainians and Russia-supporting East Ukrainians bombing and warring with each other. The war killed many thousands of Ukrainians, destroyed much of East Ukraine, littered their country with land mines, and caused several near continent-wide environmental disasters due to bombing areas with mines, which have water pumps that must be maintained, including one with nuclear waste sealed in it.

With Ukraine, the US, and EU openly and publicly talking of supporting Western Ukraine's intentions to make an offensive slaughter of Eastern Ukraine for the last 5 or 6 years, Russia went to Geneva with concerns of a coming genocide of the Russian-speaking Ukrainians and again vowed to protect them.

Geneva laughed at them and our media ran stories ridiculing Putin's worry of genocide. Not surprisingly, Russia began the current military action in response, presumably taking matters into their own hands.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hitler claimed that the people in the Sudetenland wanted to be part of Germany. France and Britain let Hitler have the Sudetenland thinking this would appease Hitler. Instead, Hitler took over all of Czechoslovakia. This is similar to Putin claiming that the people of East Ukraine want to be part of Russia.

If half of Ukrainians don't like the government, they would not be fighting so ferociously. The UN has condemned Russia for invading Ukraine. If Russia has a grievance against Ukraine, it should take it before the UN.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Russia took their concern for the Russian speaking Ukrainian people before Geneva, in the proper manor the UN would have wanted, following long standing treaties. Russia literally took the submissive approach and cooperated with the US/EU as if a member......they were laughed at and ridiculed for their concerns of genocide in their neighboring country, many against Russian blood relations.

Our US and EU leaders had been publicly boasting about preparing West Ukraine for an offensive to finally finish off East Ukrainians any year now, for the last five years. Evil colonist countries never change, especially with such high levels of corruption in charge.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That makes no sense due to Putin having no interest in conquered Ukraine.

At the start of the war there was a definite invasion targeting Kyiv: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64664944, and the prematurely released press release describes Ukraine as returned to Russia as Belarus is: https://russiaukraineinvasion.com/russias-view-the-empire/premature-victory-article/

West Ukraine has been fighting East Ukraine since before 2014.

Not exactly. Russia has been fighting in East Ukraine since annexing Crimea in 2014.

Russia got pissed that everyone began ignoring it and its atrocities to Ukrainians with Russian heritage.

According to Russian propaganda, but not to history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusations_of_genocide_in_Donbas

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

What you are recounting is misleading propaganda that intentionally frame the history too short.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine declared independence. Ukraine was, even more so than now, largely made of a Soviet speaking and a Soviet heritage population. Many Soviet-Ukrainians left to Russia to help rebuild from the collapsed Soviet Union and constitute an integral part of Russia. Of course, today, the number of Russian speaking Ukrainian and with Russian heritage, is still significant.

Which lead's to today's 10 year long war...

Later, Moscow vowed to protect the Russian-speaking people of Crimea, when Ukraine chose Russia's over the US/UK financial deal in 2014 and suddenly Ukraine was a war zone of civilian protesters, mercenaries, and suspiciously lots of US/EU involvement. Regardless of what anyone thinks, it seems Moscow determined the Ukrainian revolution was a US/EU ruse and a coup with a cover story, in violations of previous US, UK, and Russia treaties with Ukraine to disarm their nuclear weapons (Soviet leftovers from after the World Wars), this is when they annexed Crimea.

Half of Ukraine also didn't seem to support the new leadership or circumstances of it unfolded, creating a deep divide int he people and sparking a 10 year long war of US/EU-supporting East Ukrainians and Russia-supporting East Ukrainians bombing and warring with each other. They failed multiple peace treaties the world urged them to make, hoping to stop Ukraine from killing its self. The war killed many thousands of Ukrainians, destroyed much of East Ukraine, littered their country with land mines, and caused several near continent-wide environmental disasters due to bombing areas with mines, which have water pumps that must be maintained, including one with nuclear waste sealed in it.

With Ukraine, the US, and EU openly and publicly talking of supporting Western Ukraine's intentions to make an offensive slaughter of Eastern Ukraine for the last 5 or 6 years, Russia went to Geneva with concerns of a coming genocide of the Russian-speaking Ukrainians and again vowed to protect them.

Geneva laughed at them and our media ran stories ridiculing Putin's worry of genocide. Not surprisingly, Russia began the current military action in response, presumably taking matters into their own hands.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Of course, today, the number of Russian speaking Ukrainian and with Russian heritage, is still significant.

Which lead's to today's 10 year long war...

Not it didn't. Russians and Ukrainians had no conflict in Ukraine.

What least to the war is invasion by Russia.

Regardless of what anyone thinks, it seems Moscow determined the Ukrainian revolution was a US/EU ruse and a coup

"Moscow determined".

The desire to move politically and economically towards the democracy and rule of law of the EU and away from the autocracy and oligarchs of Russia was not only the popular desire in Ukraine, it's also blatantly obvious why. They suffered from corruption, and suffer from it still.

Russia went to Geneva with concerns of a coming genocide of the Russian-speaking Ukrainians and again vowed to protect them.

There was no such genocide for the people in Ukraine. Only if you listen to the Russian state media.

They had peace until the Russian invasion.

https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1498366887683624962?t=Sg3mvzwqNDrLc3znPp5CFQ&s=19

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. There hasn't been peace in Ukraine for ages. Most of us remember this, but it seems that propaganda about the current incursion hopes you do not.

Casualties of East v West Ukrainian war "Russo-Ukrainian War"
Casualties from April 2014 to February 2022 (before the recent Russian intervention)
Ukrainian Civilians 3,404 killed
Foreign Civilians 306 killed
Western Ukrainian Government (US/EU recognized) [Ukrainians]
(Led by Zelenskyy as of 2019)
National forces 4,400 killed
National forces volunteers 4,647 killed
Eastern Ukrainian separatist rejecting the post-violent take-over government [Ukrainians]
(People's Militia of the Donetsk People's Republic and People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic)
Ukrainian civilian militias 6,517 killed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're right that there were deaths from the Russian sponsored invasion, including civilian deaths.

What there wasn't was attacks on Russian speaking civilians.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All the deaths listed were from Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians, before the Russian intervention. Most of us remember this, it was huge issue for a long time and many countries tried to get them to cease fire, but both sides would quickly break every agreement.

Yes, the Ukraine military is attacking East Ukraine, which is the Russian speaking Ukrainian area.

Actually, when you know the history of Ukraine, especially through the last two world wars and rebuilding after, then you know that a large portion of Ukraine is ethnic Russian-Ukrainians....the portion under constant conflict with the other half of Ukraine for the last decade, of which the US has been openly planning to help extinguish with talk of offensive attack, prompting Russia's concern about genocide.

[–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVBX7l2zgRw

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It appears that you put together clips to give the impression that Obi-Wan suffered from PTSD. Even if he did, he knows he was correct in stopping Anakin Skywalker. Even Anakin's wife knew that.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hitler didn’t become more powerful with every country he conquered. He incurred the wrath of what was formerly the ussr. Once they mobilized, it became a terrible conflict for the nazis - all the way through. Comparing Russia with hitler doesn’t work, it’s apples and oranges. Russia has taken on a lot of liability in mobilizing itself but it started out as a message - that they reject the neo-liberal/neo-conservative agenda that the west wants to shovel everywhere. They are attempting to differentiate and the west gave them that opportunity, Africa is beginning to follow suit as well as some other countries. If this momentum continues then you are seeing a breakup of western hegemonic dominance throughout the world and china (whom the west had created) will probably own you in the future in the us.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hitler was not able to conquer Russia. This was mainly because Hitler foolishly declared war on the powerful US. Now, Hitler had to face the US in the west and Russia in the east. The mighty US industrial base was able to supply Russia with material. The West wants countries to be democratic but doesn't invade countries to force it. Britain and France let Hitler conquer Czechoslovakia and Poland. Conquering Czechoslovakia gave Germany control of the famous arms manufacturer Skoda. It also enabled Hitler to find military recruits from those countries.

[–]Blackhalo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The West wants countries to be democratic but doesn't invade countries to force it.

Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Iraq would like a word. And that does not even count the many countries where the US funded coups.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unlike these countries, Ukraine has been invaded by another country and the US is not providing troops.

[–]SoCo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I suspect Europe and the US are finally playing their long planned and publicized offensive, using their send-off bitch, Ukraine, because they feel they are running out of time.

If the EU and US truly believe in global warming, then they must be scared shit-less of how Russia is posed to benefit greatly from it, while most other countries suffer from it. Russia would thaw and gain tons of fresh untouched land suitable for farming, mining, and likely swelling with resources. With this good-fortune, Russia could easily become the worlds strongest super power.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Super-powers are overrated. A nation with less violence and more happy people trading in prosperity with each other without a boot on its neck - should be the goal.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Nobody can predict what changes global warming will cause. Parts of Russia could be stricken by drought. The weather could swing from extreme hot to cold making agriculture difficult.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Nobody can predict what changes global warming will cause.

Some changes are consistent across models. One is that arable land will open up in Russia and Canada.

Parts of Russia could be stricken by drought.

Smaller parts than those opened up by the melting of the permafrost. But most models imply there will be a reduction in precipitation for Siberia and the South west of Russia.

The weather could swing from extreme hot to cold making agriculture difficult.

That's a risk for Europe, which is kept warm by the Gulf Stream. But Russia has no such warming from ocean currents.

Marseille is about the same latitude as Vladivostok, but averages 15.0°C (58.9 °F) instead of 6.4 °C (43.4 °F), so Marseille risks cooling as the Gulf Stream slows or stops, but Vladivostok is unlikely to be affected by local cooling in the warming world.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It would be foolish for anyone to believe that global warming will make things better. Land which becomes arable might receive too much rain at one time resulting in flooding. Vladivostok is part of the world; it will be affected by global warming.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It would be foolish for anyone to believe that global warming will make things better

Absolutely. The boreal forests are heading for collapse, and those ecosystems and the tundra ecosystems will both hit Russian biodiversity hard and much more completely than in a lot of places. To say nothing of the impact on pinnipeds and polar bears from the loss of sea ice.

But it will open up some land in Russia and Canada for agriculture, and open up the north sea for navigation and exploitation, including more fossil fuels. So, from a purely short term and economic perspective, Russia will suffer less than most, and will see some gains.

Vladivostok is part of the world; it will be affected by global warming.

Absolutely. I thought you were talking about local cooling resulting from global warming, which is on the cards for Europe as warming accelerates, and fresh water from Greenland and to a lesser extent the sea ice slows the Gulf Stream. But Vladivostok will get warmer. (And almost certainly wetter).

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, Canada presently, is experiencing wildfires. You're right in saying for the short term because unless global warming is stopped, there could be no life on Earth. Russia could be compared to the part of the Titanic which went underwater last.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, Canada presently, is experiencing wildfires.

Yep. That puts infrastructure at risk, puts pressure on the ecosystems, and releases CO2 sequestered into the wood of the trees.

But it doesn't reduce arable land.

You're right in saying for the short term because unless global warming is stopped, there could be no life on Earth.

Greatly reduced in species. But we won't kill everything.

Russia could be compared to the part of the Titanic which went underwater last.

Humanity will suffer from the drop in resources that is biodiversity, and oceanic productivity. But I don't think Putin is very forward looking, and he's at war with the west. Climate change will hurt most of his enemies more that it will hurt Russia.