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[–]Ricky_Ticky 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I felt so ashamed that I didn’t know how to dress like a cute girl.

It's 2020, you don't have to dress like a cute girl if you don't feel like

Even while making love as homosexual females, the male is never far from our mind watching us and wanting to be involved.

Please don't make your "homosexual" experience everybody's experience

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Right? What lesbian thinks about men during sex?? That would be such an instant turn off if I knew that was crossing my partners mind

[–]Ricky_Ticky 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Dear girlfriend, I need to confess... Internalized homophobia makes me think about penises during our intercourse. Can you help me get rid of it so I can finally focus on your vagina? :)

[–]VioletRemi 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The worst would be if you are using toys.

[–]Skipdip[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes it’s 2020. Was I a child in 2020? Hmm probably not.

Where exactly did I say this was any one else’s experience? I said this was my experience. What’s your damage?

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This post is extremely centered around your feelings for men, for it being a post about coming to terms with your homosexuality.

[–]oofreesouloo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

I thought vaginas were gross.... I don’t anymore.

Internalized homophobia is me imagining myself being a man when I was topping my girlfriend because it just felt more right.

Internalized homophobia and misogyny is not being able to get the thought of males and penises out of the bedroom.

Even while making love as homosexual females, the male is never far from our mind watching us and wanting to be involved.

~Fake lesbianism~ (or Political lesbianism, however you want to call it) haha

[–]VioletRemi 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

Hey, on /r/ActualLesbians all lesbians are talking about is penises! So there should be something in it for lesbians! Or why that sub is called like that?!?! Right?! :D

Seriously speaking, I tried to become straight myself, and hated myself for not being able to do so, and even tried to "play a man". There were no penises involved, tho.

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I tried to become straight myself, and hated for loving women, and even tried to "play a man". There were no penises involved, tho.

Exactly. I also did try to become straight. The way she described it was literally the opposite of my experience. I had to literally force myself to think of guys and couldn't stop thinking about women. And the more I forced myself to like guys, the harder was for me to ignore the attraction towards women, it was like a guilty pleasure. 🤪

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

When I was married on a man, I literally became frigid, and had no romantic or sexual attraction at all (at least he was a good person and stopped asking any kind of intimacy), I was dry as Sahara. And then near divorce time in dormitory I was depressed and asked to change room, got into "2 people" room, but it was soviet design one, so we had only one bed for two. And in the very first night when she fell asleep, I was just there staring at her, and my heart was on a race, so many months of restraining wanted to explode right there! I don't remember if I was able to even fall asleep that night. (gladly she was bisexual, so became my first gf, and it was easy to hide from homophobic eyes too)

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Awwww so cute! :)

[–]VioletRemi 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

I would say that you are cute too, but then one person will kill me for "cheating" :)

[–]oofreesouloo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ahah then don't, don't want to be in trouble lol 🤫😂 thanks anyway 😄

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

What lesbian thinks about penises during lesbian sex? Or considers the feeling of being with other women "wrong"? Just sounds a bit like you're repressing attraction to men, or have internalised biphobia. There's nothing wrong with being bisexual and you can love women only (febfem) if you want, while acknowledging those feelings. Then again idk you

[–]VioletRemi 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sadly, but it is easy to think that being homosexual is wrong in countries where you are getting punched or fired for that. Not sure what it has to do with men gaze, tho. Maybe something about lesbian porn?

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm from Poland, so I totally get that. But my first kiss with a woman had a resounding "rightness" compared to the time I kissed a boy, which just felt like nothing, sort of wet, gross and yup, completely wrong and unnatural. The feelings of guilt and shame came after kissing her, when I was alone and started to stew on what my parents would think. But during the interaction there was no wrongness. That's how I knew I'm a lesbian, because of how natural it felt. I hope I'm wording this right lol

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me it was enough to just lay near woman I like. No touching or anything, just her scent and looks.

I knew I liked girls long before that, tho.

Dzien dobry sasiad :)

[–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes I agree it is the only thing that feels natural and beautiful. The first time a girl kissed me sloppily for one second while she was wasted at a party, i felt sparks like I couldn’t believe. I proceeded to be in love with her until I dropped out of the school at the end of the year

[–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It's the way she describes it is literally the opposite of what I experienced.

Me: I thought I was gross for thinking sexually about women and for liking her bodies (yes, boobs, vagina, f*cking everything)

Her: "I thought vaginas were gross."

Me: I wish I stopped thinking about women and could be "normal". And I used to literally force myself to try to like guys and think of guys

Her: "Internalized homophobia and misogyny is not being able to get the thought of males and penises out of the bedroom"

Literally. the. opposite 🤣

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yea this was me too. Still kind of is to some extent. Feeling ashamed for being so attracted to women, women’s bodies, and women’s bodies coming together. I can never help but notice women. Even when women are dressed down and doing something mundane. Like without trying to I’ll catch a glimpse and in an instant I kind of take in everything I can see about the woman’s body and what she’s wearing. The only way men enter my thoughts is when I think, “No, don’t be like a creepy, leering guy.”

[–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thank you for sharing your relatable experience. Everyone is being so hostile here like gatekeeping homosexuality from an actual homosexual. Smh

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    What do you mean the thread was removed? I was discussing the patriarchy. Come on. Your gonna remove it for that? I wasn’t forcing penises on anyone in fact I was talking about it being forced on me. Y’all are acting just like the trans activists now. I can’t speak about my experience... like what? I am lesbian. I am homosexual. I thought that meant I could exist here without having to worry about stuff like this

    [–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I also used to force myself to think of guys. I don’t say ever that I wanted to think of guys. I hit puberty and was like “ok I guess it’s time to like guys now cause I’m straight... hm who do we pick? Tom is popular and girls think he’s cute let’s pick him”

    You know what good for all of you that you never had to deal with this internalized stuff. The fucking TRAs are telling me my homosexuality is transphobic and now the fucking lesbians are telling me I’m not lesbian enough.

    [–]VioletRemi 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    It is mostly because of the very weird wording you've chosen, with most of the post being about male gaze and penises. Which was just weird to read.

    [–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This exactly. It was everything just so weird.

    [–]Skipdip[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I will also say that I did not nearly expect this reaction from this board which has been my saving grace in all this. You gotta meet people where there at, and this was my attempt through utter vulnerability to demonstrate to TRA that homosexuality exists and has nothing to do with gender. All I gotta say is... it worked for a lot of people. I thought y’all would be proud of me

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Ok... I mean maybe out of context, but these things are very real and affect lesbians in a lot of conservative places, including where I live. I was writing this mostly directed at trans activists. I had to specify penis and male so many times so they would stop forcing trans women on us and stop acting like a male can ever be a female. Even saying female and male is controversial in TRA spaces. Why can’t y’all on this forum support me. I am doing the good work out there for all homosexuals. You don’t know what kind of crap I’ve received on Facebook for speaking out against TRA censorship, homophobia and misogyny.

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    What are you talking about?

    [–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Your vision of what internalized homophobia is is very weird. How come you're having sex with a woman and are thinking about "males and penises"? 😅 I had internalized homophobia and the way you describe it is very different, if not the opposite, of mine. 😅

    [–]Ricky_Ticky 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    It sounds more like an autoandrophilia, not internalized homophobia

    [–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Good point! I would say it's a mix between autoandrophilia and bisexuality. Too much emphasis on penises and males for a lesbian 🤣

    "Not only does he want to be involved, he forces himself in, through our hands through our eyes. Sometimes even we become him."

    • this part, in particular, was quite disturbing 😅

    [–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I didn’t realize that was a thing and now I’m fascinated and want to hear from the perspective of someone who has it and is cognizant of it. Minds are so wild sometimes.

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    It didn’t help that my first girlfriend was deeply in the trans ideology. She constantly brought up “boyness” or “being a man” so I was like. Hold on, I’m even more masculine than her. I don’t feel comfortable with her not having to be a woman and her calling me a woman. But I am a female and I don’t want to pretend otherwise. I also want to be with a female why does she say she isn’t? Do I not like that she is non-binary and not a woman because she is coming out as a man and I’m gay? No... wait she is female. Why does she disavow femaleness so much? why does she hate herself so much?

    [–]oofreesouloo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Just like someone here already said, it was the weird way you worded things and the focus on males and penises 😅 As a lesbian, just the thought of penises grosses me out and that is why your post was so uncomfortable to read. Like, we don't ever think about males or penises, ESPECIALLY during sex, because it grosses us out, let alone "not being able" to stop thinking about it. That's literally the least lesbian thing ever 😅

    [–]VioletRemi 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I would not say it is grosses me out, but it is like thinking about antarctica or in worst cases about pooping. So it can be only during very boring sex, or it can ruin sex. There just no way or reason about thinking something so unrelated (or gross) during sex, lol.

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I mean yeah I agree lol. But it’s only not a lesbian thing when you don’t have internalized homophobia. U kno what I’m saying? My point is that internalized homophobia and misogyny kept the dong in my mind. And it was very much in the mind of my girlfriend who did the typical trans female thing where she found it more palatable to be a man than to be a lesbian woman. I published this publicly after a long discourse about the problems of the queer movement to which I was TERFed and “transphobic”Ed and spoken down to and not listened. I didn’t want to share any personal details of my girlfriend and her struggles with gender identity, but I used this to illustrate for her why gender doesn’t exist, and the best path is to let it go.

    [–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think one of the problems is what you are calling “internalized homophobia” seems alien to most of us and very different from what we think of as internalized homophobia which is generally discomfort with our own homosexuality and homosexual feelings, thinking we’re weird and predatory or thinking “I can’t be a lesbian because people like me aren’t lesbians.”

    I say all of this as a late bloomer lesbian who was married to a man and I didn’t even think of penises in that marriage, not even during sex, so this is very different to me. Many of us relate to trying to convince ourselves that we really do like men or that we had to learn to like them or that we assumed we would do so in the future, but that is still more the idea of a man, which is different than fixating on male sex organs. That sounds more like intrusive thoughts or something like that. Or even autoandrophilia as one poster mentioned. So it would be helpful to know what influenced you to think of this as internalized homophobia specifically. If it’s a text, I would be interested in reading it. I am interested in learning other people’s stories and paths.

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Honestly how dare you. You are being homophobic

    [–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    For not wanting lesbianism to have anything with male and penises? Okay, then I'm a massive homophobe.

    Like Innisfree already asked, have you read something that made you have those ideas of internalized homophobia? Because there's currently LOTS of misinformation of lesbianism now everywhere, even on the internet, and the truth is there's plenty of bi women and even some straight women thinking they're lesbians because of it

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I’m saying your being homophobic because you won’t let another homosexual even discuss penises or males? Like they have no impact on my life just because I’m lesbian? For the record I had sex with a man a grand total of once when I was wasted because I felt like I should “get it over with”. I am not misinforming anyone, I am talking about my experience.

    [–]Lessom 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    It’s bisexuality or heterosexuality you should be coming to terms with.

    [–]Skipdip[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don’t understand. What are you talking about?

    [–]Innisfree 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Can I ask if there was any specific reading that influenced your thinking in dealing with internalized homophobia?

    I'm just curious if the framework and words you are using to make sense of your experience may be what causes a disconnect between what you want to convey and how it is perceived here

    Edit: a word.

    [–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    This is reading like the comp herb master doc coming to life. It’s been trending a lot lately outside of r/LBL.

    Edit: Comp herb lol. Meant comp het but autocorrect will not cooperate.

    [–]Innisfree 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yes it was reminding me of that - not to say that there isn't some truth in that doc (although hidden under silly stuff) . But these ideas are so pervasive in all kinds of Internet spaces - so that is why I asked.

    I wouldn't blame anyone for this kind of soul searching and grasping for the right language - early 20s is still young, heck even 30s is still young nowadays. And all this over-intellectualization and emphasis on building the perfect "you" encourages people to mould themselves constantly - even at great cost to themselves.