all 30 comments

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

This is why I dislike radfems. And I think their often ridiculous views are the reason for why the gender critical part gets often ignored or dissed. Though even their view trans stuff can be summed up as - men evil - doing everything to hurt women, women always victims of men.

[–]CancelPowerSuper Bi Male 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I remember that I hated TERFs for a while and anybody who mentions that they are a TERF because of the "radical feminist" thing. I thought they were all these disgusting men-haters from social media who want to abuse and kill all men.

However, this place is very chill actually, I barely see any unjustified hate against men, I'm not even sure if women here can be called "terfs"

[–]DickFreeBacon🥓 | 🇵🇱 | SUPER🌈LESBIAN | LGB ✂️ TQ+ 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

By TRAs' definition, anyone that doesn't literally let out waves of euphoria from their lungs so TRAs can suck it all up from the air is a TERF lol.

But seriously, I don't recall any manhunting going on here, which is great, because I couldn't stand radfem subs because of that. (Also got downvoted a lot, for speaking against their man-hating comments, back on Reddit.)

And that's also why I'm most active on here. Because other places seem traitorous.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I barely see any unjustified hate against men,

Mods were/are very good about making sure this isn't lgb gender critical.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Tragicomically, someone on social media who ID'ed as radfem called me a "fraud" the other day and said my "card should be revoked" because I refuted (with sworn testimony from the UK trial) some falsehoods she was spewing about Amber Heard being a little innocent angel.

I wasn't discussing feminism or womanhood, though. So I found it really interesting that she thought I would want whatever "card" she was hawking in the first place. One does not need the secret handshake and the hand-drawn map to the club treehouse in order to care about truth and justice. And weirdly enough I still have all my XX chromosomes even though she said mean things to me...so I think I'll be all right.

Of course, that was projection, because here's a woman who does not care about truth and justice trying to hold a well-exposed con artist up as a feminist standard-bearer and she's obviously having some buyer's remorse, which she copes with by what? Shooting the messenger.

They really do seem to think that picking a big stick up off the ground and waving it wildly at people counts as credibility. Or to put that another way, radfems probably have their own TRA equivalent subset of bullying opportunists. They are not all that way, but I get tired of rolling the dice and wondering which kind I'm going to get so I seldom choose interaction.

But I've tussled with a few of them in the last couple of weeks because they are so very, very, very determined to cling to the lie that AH is their angelic spokesperson. You have to work really hard at denial to maintain that position at this point. But it wouldn't be the first time I've run into the radfem brick wall of denial. So there's nothing new to see here.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I would have thought she was a libfem for uncritically supporting AH. Very hard to keep track of the waves of feminism sometimes.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah I don't try very hard. Easier to just evaluate someone's beliefs and assertions as they are than from within whatever ideological framework they claim to be inhabiting—people seldom strictly follow their own ideologies consistently.

There are a ton of libfems defending AH too but there's definitely some hand-wringing going on in places like Ovarit about the optics of AH being seen as she is / this way (accurately?). (And of course there are plenty who actually believe her, still.) They seem more concerned about how she makes them look than they are about how important it is that this type of abuse be documented and talked about openly.

Which makes me wonder how many of them are similarly abusive or have falsely accused people themselves. Why be so worried about one of these being finally, properly outed? I think it's great because now when I try to describe some of my experiences, AH can stand in as a perfect example. It's a damned relief.

And I'm not a Depp fan. I haven't really paid attention to him, but this is just such a great teaching moment for so many survivors. I know there's a risk among the simple-minded that more of us won't be believed, but damn, that was already a problem because these are false accusers. (!) Now how they operate is much more out in the open with an excellent case study. What's not to like, really? /rhetorical

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

AH shouldn't tear down your movement unless you say things like believe all women as if a woman would never say false stuff.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed. The only reason they have to worry is that she proves that their absurd rule / mantra is false, by being a very blatant exception.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

are the reason for why the gender critical part gets often ignored or dissed

I sometimes hesitate to say I'm GC because I'd be aligning with radfemmery in the eyes of some.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is pretty distressing to read but I suppose the world is made up of a vast number of tribes with deep divisions and we can't all be allies just because we agree on some things. I seem to recall that even Germain Greer was (at one stage at least) not lesbian friendly.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I've been thinking about posting this for awhile since I've seen a post here about Ovarit's members disgusting views on gay men but the one I saw awhile back is gone (I think). But I saw stunaep's post (give it a read here: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/9a63/how_ovarit_feels_about_homosexual_parenthood/) and decided to post this. This might be a part 1, as I've seen various lesbophobia, homophobia, and biphobia there I just need to find it again. I've experienced lesbophobia and homophobia from radfems. Many of them believe homosexuality is a choice, or that gays are "made" from trauma, that lesbians are just very strong willed feminists (usually women that were abused by men. Glad to see classic homophobia making a come back...) and gay men are just very committed misogynists.

The Thread: https://ovarit.com/o/Lesbians/85214/has-anyone-else-been-noticing-an-uptick-in-homophobia-in-gc-spaces

Had to reupload to show usernames.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

aren't radfems supposed to be on the left? why would they fall back to these anti lgb tropes?

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Radfem motto is "The personal is political" so no matter what, everything is political. A person is a political statement, their actions, beliefs, existence, etc. Because everything is a political statement, they may be acting in opposition to another political viewpoint, which is also an attack on them. If lesbians aren't human beings that can believe in a variety of different things, they're just a political group that means all lesbians (a political group in their eyes) can be opposition to their politics, since it's a choice they're choosing to be anti-whatever radfem beliefs. You can see lesbians going from human beings that just happen to be homosexual to 'lesbians' being "anti or pro certain political beliefs." Or:"Gay men are just misogynists so gay men are anti-women." Instead of: a gay man can just so happen to be a misogynist but there is nothing inherent to being a gay man with being misogynistic, because gay men are human beings therefore can vary in beliefs and so on.

"The personal is political" If used excessively, it can be very dehumanizing. You are no longer a person; you have become a political statement. You're more of a billboard than anything at that point. Because radical feminists have a long history of politicizing lesbians (see political "lesbians"), this commonly happens with us. Lesbians are just mega radical feminists that sleep with women because f•ck the patriarchy. Instead of just lesbians being homosexual.

Of course, all parties are guilty of this, putting their politics above humanity. They become so engrossed in politics that they lose sight of the fact everyone's a person not an walking ideology. We must fight oppression, erasure and trans people forcing themselves on others, but we must all remember that not everything/everyone is a walking political statement. It's sometimes just about basic human decency, being able to say "no" to sexual advances without being called a bigot, lesbians and gays not having to constantly "unpack our genital preferences," and real women having our own spaces away from males. Some things shouldn't be made into political statements.

and most radfems are straight. Heterosexuals don't have a great track record of being respectful to homosexuals.

Sorry for the long post, I just find all of this to be very interesting.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry for the long post, I just find all of this to be very interesting.

So did I :)

[–]DimDroog 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Many of them believe homosexuality is a choice, or that gays are "made" from trauma, that lesbians are just very strong willed feminists (usually women that were abused by men. Glad to see classic homophobia making a come back...) and gay men are just very committed misogynists.

WTH?! I'm shocked, seriously. I'm glad I left the radfem online community.

That is seriously depressing.

I think they do have some valid points, but in the end, I do NOT like anyone telling me (or anyone else for that matter) that I MUST think a certain way.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

They're very authoritarian. The homophobia and horseshoe sexism is "shut up lesbo I know what's good for you!"

It's why we need to grow the LGB drop the T movement, so we don't have to rely on any outsiders. I just applied (and was accepted) to volunteer at an LGBT organization to help the LGBs in my area, and to hopefully passively change minds. Find some fence sitters and help steer them away from the homophobic sexists gendie stuff. See how it goes.

[–]DimDroog 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What can I do as a straight ally?

So far, I've been telling people in real life what is going on.

Most straights don't realize how crazy it is, unless they're online.

So flipping AWFUL!

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I thought you were bi because of the symbol next to your name so I was confused for a bit lol. I guess keep doing what you're doing, spread the word, and if you're able support any LGB Alliance group. Thanks for your allyship! I not used to straight people caring unless they're related to a LGB person

[–]DimDroog 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fist bump.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Stay amazing friend ❤️

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I just applied (and was accepted) to volunteer at an LGBT organization to help the LGBs in my area, and to hopefully passively change minds. Find some fence sitters and help steer them away from the homophobic sexists gendie stuff. See how it goes.

Good luck!! Stay safe. You might find some awesome people there, but also might find some people who are very hostile to same-sex attracted people...

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right now we're doing everything through zoom calls, so at least it's not in person for now. My first interview the guy asked for my pronouns, not the worse thing, but it gives me a peak on what'll be like. Who knows, maybe it won't be so bad, best to stay optimistic.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well fuck. I used to be on ovarit, got a bit tired about several things as I am not really a 'good good radfem', and deleted my account because fuck it, I want to enjoy life. Anyway, I think some former TRA's turn into diehard radfems, switching sides but same behaviour as before.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

got a bit tired about several things as I am not really a 'good good radfem'

Something, something, class consciousness. Something, something, political purity. That's what they always say. Sounds nicer than "don't criticize us" I guess.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You said it quite right with the excessive 'The personal is political', but I also got tired with the whole 'Nigel' thing, everything you do is because some dude wants it (which in my opinion goes full circle. For instance, not wearing make up because some dude wants you to wear make up, the reason is still some dude wants something), and the former die-hard TRAs.

I've seen a bunch of former self id'ed NB's going full on radfem, of course better than the other radfems, and it seems... fake? I don't know, I usually get the feeling they are just looking for a new group, a new identity while being VERY LOUD. One other thing that bothers me is that some decided women are always good, regardless of what they do. That's not how any of it works and worse, it could lead to covering up horrible behaviour of predatory women.

I've seen some homophobic comments before but they were usually met with clear and good responses on the circles I joined, and there was some push back against political lesbianism and 'being lesbian is a choice'. I've always hated that statement as it would make the bible thumpers in my native country have a point with their whole 'being gay is a choice!'. Fuck that noise.

I don't know if I'm making any sense as I'm rambling and my thoughts are all over the place due to circumstances.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Direct link to a much more zoom-able copy: https://i.imgur.com/KzD4nqs.png

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I used to browse Ovarit fairly frequently; it would be the sort of next step in the chain after I had finished browsing Saidit but hadn't quite got my fill of GenderCritical.

I still do look at it occasionally, but I avoid absolutely anything from the WomensLiberation 'circle' because I know it's just going to be bonkers 'let's-all-live-in-a-commune-with-no-men-because-men-inherently-evil' bullshit. The kind of stuff your garden variety American conservative radio show host thinks 'feminism' is.

Wacko leftists come in all breeds and colours, it would seem.

[–]ElectraHeart 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This was my first post on saidit: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/97bj/psychotically_homophobic_against_males_in/xvn7?context=3

Being gay (male) is like being a penguin. You're hated for being a bird (you're a man), but birds hate you because you can't fly (you're gay). I think the only group that understands this is the lesbians. And to be honest sometimes the worst homophobes come from radfems. This is because their ideology is about essentialism. "Men are bad. Gay men are men, they are also bad."

Most of the terminally online "feminists" are hellbent on proving gay men are evil, because that makes them feel good about loving their oppressors, in a literal sense. Thats why their cries about evil gay men invading womens bodies is so funny: honey, the most likely killers for women are 1) partner [58%!!!!!!!!] 2) father 3) family members 4) friends 5) strangers. They are all men, but none of them are gay. Gay men's relationship with women, just like lesbians relationship with men, is voluntary. I guess these women can't really handle a single demographic that is not chasing them for some reason. But oh yeah, they couldn't pull this off to heterosexual men, who hold the systemic power. I swear gay men are like punchbags in all places.

Lesbians also get the same treatment because it points out the biggest flaw in the feminist ideology: "if we can't fix men and murder them outright, what is to be done?" The only course of action is separation. I'm not even talking about female communes type of thing. I'm talking about women stopping makeup, doing what they want, not associating with men, having hobbies with other women etc. They hate us, because they can't be us basically.

[–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

RIP Snappy, I AM THE NEW GOD!

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