RantHeartstopper

submitted by [deleted] from self.LGBDropTheT

Have you seen this TV show? I tried watching it but immediately became annoyed enough to create a throwaway account just to vent. I've been lurking here for a while, silently agreeing, never really feeling the need to participate until now.

Transphobia is mentioned in the first five minutes of the first episode. Not an exaggeration, the word 'transphobe' is uttered in under six minutes. I stopped watching. Why is a show about a gay kid talking about transphobia before homophobia?

I looked up the creator of the show/comic and was thoroughly unsurprised to find that it's a woman who identifies as "aromantic asexual" and uses she/they pronouns. If she doesn't like boys or romance or sex, why did she create a story about gay boys falling in love!?

As I said, I stopped watching the show after five minutes, so I don't actually know what happens. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it presents a totally neutered version of homosexuality where the gays are more like cutesy puppy dogs than actual human beings. Y'know, the sort of thing a straight girl would write because she has literally no idea what it means to be gay or a man. If you've seen it, tell me if I'm wrong.

I'm so tired...

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[–]JulienMayfair 19 insightful - 6 fun19 insightful - 5 fun20 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

You got the same thing in the TV show Sense8, which, having a Wachowski involved, could be expected. There's a big scene in San Francisco about lesbians not accepting the trans character (Nomi). There's also a storyline about how Nomi's mother told Nomi's sister not to invite her to the sister's wedding because "She would make it all about her." And guess what? The irony is that THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS! There's a huge showdown in the middle of the church between Nomi's father and the police. That's what I'd want to happen at my wedding, wouldn't you? Federal agents showing up in the middle of the ceremony to arrest your fugitive trans sister?

And then I stopped watching the show in the second season when they had Andy Dick playing perhaps the worst gay character in the history of television.

[–]Wanderingthehalls 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You could theoretically give Nomi a pass on being arrested at the wedding as that was involuntary and not something Nomi planned for that moment. But when Nomi made a speech about at the wedding, it was ALL about how Nomi felt the night before Nomi's bottom surgery. Nomi chose that. Nomi had a chance to speak about a sister her special day, so Nomi made a conscious decision to speak about Nomi's penis.

I had not peaked at this point. I really liked this show and all the characters. But I was just watching it wondering why Nomi isn't telling nice stories about the sister. Why talk about that?

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 16 insightful - 11 fun16 insightful - 10 fun17 insightful - 11 fun -  (1 child)

But I was just watching it wondering why Nomi isn't telling nice stories about the sister. Why talk about that?

Well at least it's a realistic portrayal of transgenders' self-centered narcissism.

[–]Wanderingthehalls 13 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely. It's the same as the Batgirl issue where Barbara tells her flatmate all about the horrific trauma she's endured at the hands of the Joker and her brother. And her flatmate responds with, "Barbara, I'm trans." Unintentional realism galore.

[–]JulienMayfair 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

But when Nomi made a speech about at the wedding, it was ALL about how Nomi felt the night before Nomi's bottom surgery. Nomi chose that. Nomi had a chance to speak about a sister her special day, so Nomi made a conscious decision to speak about Nomi's penis.

I'd forgotten that part.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 9 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Andy Dick playing perhaps the worst gay character in the history of television

fixed

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember that show. If I'm not mistaken, the showrunners declared that all eight characters are pansexual, which just so happens to contradict/erase the latino gay's entire subplot.

[–]Rage-Xion 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Lately, I was also kind of turned off when "Dream Daddy", one of the few gay dating sim games that exist, decided to include a trans-identified woman as a love interrest for woke points.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've never played it, but I looked at the Wikipedia page and...

The lack of references by characters to their sexual orientation came from the developers feeling that most media dealing with queer people was about societal issues and not about relationships themselves.

What does this even mean?

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm assuming it means there can be no conflict stemming from a character being gay, if they're not referenced as being gay.

On one hand I'm not opposed to skipping labels in media, since that tends to come across as cringe, as long as it's understood that the characters are indeed gay. It is undermined entirely when these supposed gay men date female people.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So, there's an explicitly trans character but no explicitly gay characters? That doesn't seem problematic at all!

[–]Criticallacitirc 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I haven't even bothered to try watching it. However Love, Simon was also based a book written by a woman. Isn't it crazy the same people who demand representation have no issues with women writing the two most recent successful tv/movies about gay teenagers?

It's funny Euphoria is written/created by a man & I just feel like the overall vibe is more in line with being young & gay ( not high-school, but early twenties) but most of the main characters are women.

Women writing men how they want them to be vs how they are.

Men writing women how they want them to be vs how they are.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. Brokeback Mountain was written by a straight woman. Call Me by Your Name was written by a straight man. The Song of Achilles was written by a straight woman.

These people use our identities for fetishism and profit. Trying to find gay media created by an actual gay person is a chore.

[–]hellonumpty 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it presents a totally neutered version of homosexuality where the gays are more like cutesy puppy dogs than actual human beings.

I only got to ep 3 before I gave up but I think you're right.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why did you give up?

[–]Mermer 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, I doubt anyone here would bother to actually watch it. Totally not my vibe, but I am watching with Cindy commentary on YT, you could check that out!

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's the straight-girl-from-tumblr way of looking at gay people. Can't believe people thought it was well-written in any way.

Also, if the characters are around 14 years old, why are they acting like they're 8?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Because that's the average mental age of a straight-girl-from-tumblr?

[–]ElectraHeart 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I looked up the creator of the show/comic and was thoroughly unsurprised to find that it's a woman who identifies as "aromantic asexual" and uses she/they pronouns. If she doesn't like boys or romance or sex, why did she create a story about gay boys falling in love!?

Its similar to Becky Albertelli coming out as bi to avoid being accused of "cishet women writing about gay men" even though being a bi woman is not any different than being a straight women and writing gays. But in the brainrot the cult experiences, being part of the cult is enough to be its priests. Call this a hot take, but i do not believe in aromantic asexuals and sort. I believe that we all have sexual orientations, regardless of having sex or not. I'm rather judgin her as I do the yaoi addicts, but with a different outcome. She rejects sex with the heterosexual men, whom she is attracted to, but also despise. Hence she can project her fantasies about heterosexual men to gay men. Romance is not something you can make the crux point of your book, without actually experiencing it.

As I said, I stopped watching the show after five minutes, so I don't actually know what happens. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it presents a totally neutered version of homosexuality where the gays are more like cutesy puppy dogs than actual human beings.

I have no issue with this, when gay people write it. Glee in season two was amazing and lighthearted. I was 15 when i first watched it and always dreamed of a boyfriend like Blaine (which i got!). Growing up in a wildly homophobic country, Klaine was my hopes and dreams for the future. [And i'm forever angry to Ryan Murphy for bullying Chris Colfer!] So even though I despise the cult for their indoctrination of gay youth with their ideology, i'd rather want them to watch Heartstopper instead of Euphoria. Thats the thing, gay kids need to see cutesy stories. I hate this on the other hand. It leads to gays being treated like puppy dogs, as you said. There exists a generation of heterosexual young adults who have no idea how gay people work, except what they've seen on TV.

Y'know, the sort of thing a straight girl would write because she has literally no idea what it means to be gay or a man. If you've seen it, tell me if I'm wrong.

You're right. Remember when gendies bullied Malulani Moreno, a pacific-islander gay men for some gendie crap they pulled and got his book retracted? There is a reason why gay men are not writing romance books anymore.

I'm so tired...

Its always okay to take some time off, and focus on things you enjoy. This is not a blizzard, this is a long winter. As diva Gloria Gaynor said, we will survive.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

i do not believe in aromantic asexuals

Same. I don't think it's a coincidence that all of these 'asexuals' have anxiety disorders and/or autism. I'm not saying that to be mean, it's just blatantly obvious that there's something else going on with these people.

gay kids need to see cutesy stories

Shelter was that for me. A heartwarming, if unrealistic, story of two men falling in love and living happily ever after. I want more stories like that, innocent and cute and silly, just not from straight girls who treat us like pets. Hyper-sexualization of gay people can also be a problem, and tiresome. I'd like to see gay people on TV doing something other than falling in love or having sex.

Its always okay to take some time off, and focus on things you enjoy.

That's getting harder by the day, though. The world's gone insane. I feel like everyone has joined a cult but me.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thats the thing, gay kids need to see cutesy stories. I hate this on the other hand. It leads to gays being treated like puppy dogs, as you said. There exists a generation of heterosexual young adults who have no idea how gay people work, except what they've seen on TV.

I think this wouldn't be a problem if... there were a diversity of gay characters in media, you know? Different kinds of personalities/types in different genres. The way that you see straight people represented. And the same for lesbian and bisexual characters. There's a place for cute, sweet stories; they just can't be the ONLY stories. And, crucially, gay characters/stories can't always be created by and for NON-GAY PEOPLE. That seems to be a BIG problem right now-- when gay people (particularly the younger ones, who are still learning what it is to be gay) see their sexuality reflected in media, it's all too often not only through a heterosexual lens, it really isn't even MEANT for a gay audience. That's the TQ+ mentality in a nutshell, I guess: straight people re-writing LGB experience to cater to themselves. Straightwashing it. They've gotta learn what the fuck "stay in your lane" means.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Different kinds of personalities/types in different genres.

Lesbian Jedi, Gay Indiana Jones, Bi James Bond.

I would love to see it.

[–]winterwillow 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If she doesn't like boys or romance or sex, why did she create a story about gay boys falling in love!?

I watched a couple of episodes and did the same google discovery as you. I’m not into hunting, and naturally I haven’t spent years writing action novels about hunters. These ‘ace’ young women are trying to hide behind some ‘queer experience’ of romance, when they’re just straight and awkward.

But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it presents a totally neutered version of homosexuality where the gays are more like cutesy puppy dogs than actual human beings.

You’re correct. I don’t mind it not being innocent though, since the characters are supposed to be 15-16, but it’s so tame. Everyone has an ~identity~ that everything revolves around, everyone’s super easygoing and cheerful and supportive, except for the token bad guys. The character’s are paperthin. I expected som grit or bite since it was British, but gave up when the mtf trans character not only became besties with what turned out to be a lesbian couple at their new school, but also one of their old male mates started falling in love with their new girly self?! C’mon now.

The writer apparently wanted to create positive queer rep or whatever, but the funny thing is, I went on reddit to see if people liked it, and the ones crying about how amazing and cute it was seemed to mostly be straight girls, trans or not and some trans girls, like oh I wish my hs years were like that. But actual gay guys seemed to be more like yeah but it’s not all sunshine and roses, most gay teens don’t have a queer friend group and that’s ok, it gets better anyways. So it’s a positive queer rep fantasy by a straight woman that appeals to others like her.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate your insights!

[–]CancelPowerSuper Bi Male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Am I the only one that didn't watch it only because it's about 2 teenage boys? It's just...so weird tbh. I would have LOVED it if they were adult men instead, but I'm just not interested in watching a romance show exploring the sexuality of 2 boys, it's not that teenage boys shouldn't freely be homosexual, it's just that I'm not interested in anything that involves both teenagers and romance at the same time. It's kind of gross and off-putting, not to mention awkward and cringe as well.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a fair point.