Heartstopper

winterwillow · 2022-05-08T19:56:35+00:00

If she doesn't like boys or romance or sex, why did she create a story about gay boys falling in love!?

I watched a couple of episodes and did the same google discovery as you. I’m not into hunting, and naturally I haven’t spent years writing action novels about hunters. These ‘ace’ young women are trying to hide behind some ‘queer experience’ of romance, when they’re just straight and awkward.

But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it presents a totally neutered version of homosexuality where the gays are more like cutesy puppy dogs than actual human beings.

You’re correct. I don’t mind it not being innocent though, since the characters are supposed to be 15-16, but it’s so tame. Everyone has an ~identity~ that everything revolves around, everyone’s super easygoing and cheerful and supportive, except for the token bad guys. The character’s are paperthin. I expected som grit or bite since it was British, but gave up when the mtf trans character not only became besties with what turned out to be a lesbian couple at their new school, but also one of their old male mates started falling in love with their new girly self?! C’mon now.

The writer apparently wanted to create positive queer rep or whatever, but the funny thing is, I went on reddit to see if people liked it, and the ones crying about how amazing and cute it was seemed to mostly be straight girls, trans or not and some trans girls, like oh I wish my hs years were like that. But actual gay guys seemed to be more like yeah but it’s not all sunshine and roses, most gay teens don’t have a queer friend group and that’s ok, it gets better anyways. So it’s a positive queer rep fantasy by a straight woman that appeals to others like her.

winterwillow · 2021-11-19T21:06:04+00:00

I actually kept reading about her, and I knew there were rumors about her being intersex, but what I didn’t know was that it was actually started by a gynecologist in 1937. (The heydays of rejuvination, transexualism and eugenics.) He wrote a study on how he thought she was a “pseudohermophrodite” and her refusal to marry he deemed “sexual neurosis”. These ideas became very mainstream and was only debunked in 1965, when they actually excavated her and analyzed her skeleton, concluding that it was female without any signs of an intersex condition.

She’s also mostly depicted in dresses and had both male and female romantic interests from what I gather, so I do think it’s the lingering hermophrodite thing + no marriage that gets Queen Christina transed/queered often.

winterwillow · 2021-11-19T17:43:14+00:00

Since according to trans ideology, one’s gender identity has nothing to do with clothes or behavior but just one’s internal sense of self let’s see what Queen Christina herself wrote in her biography.

She thanks God for having been born female “You in your mercy have saved me from the weaknesses of my sex, and also given the rest of my body and mind masculine qualities. You have used yourself of my sex to save me from my country’s vices. Had it been your will that I had been a man, maybe the habits of the country and the judgement of my followers would have ruined me.”

So she knows she’s female, albeit with masculine qualities, (which in the 17h century meant prefers geography to embroidery) and seems content, not thinking she’s born in the wrong body. Doesn’t get more ‘cis’ than that.

winterwillow · 2021-11-09T09:28:42+00:00

Can people please stop recommending Stone Butch Blues like it’s the holy scripture and Leslie Feinberg is the God of butches? It was written in the 70’s, it’s one book by one person, I understand people relate to it but it’s not the perfect guidebook for young butches today. Butch or femme or whatever, we can marry, have kids and are protected from discrimination at work in many countries, things that Feinberg didn’t have, and the reason for many of the struggles depicted. One person’s experience is not gospel.

winterwillow · 2021-11-09T09:11:03+00:00

Exactly. “Trans people have always been included in the lesbian community” like amab butches would’ve been a thing like in the 60’s lol.

winterwillow · 2021-11-08T08:13:53+00:00

Well passing as a gay male couple isn’t solely on the gf, because if op herself passed, they’d be seen as a straight couple wouldn’t they?

winterwillow · 2021-11-07T21:58:59+00:00

Reading that thread was like being back in high school having all my straight female friends talking about guys’ asses and forearms and me being ??? It was nothing like hanging out with my normal gay male friends, whose guilty pleasures also were very normal, like eating to much chocolate and watching Love actually for the fifth time

winterwillow · 2021-11-07T21:52:44+00:00

Yeah and how do they know his gender identity? Maybe he’s a closeted freeballing transbian lol

winterwillow · 2021-11-07T18:56:28+00:00

I’m not sure I feel depressed, but yes I do feel very isolated irl. It’s hard knowing that the groups, communities, events etc. that should be a place for me to ‘be myself’ is the last place I feel like I can be myself. I can’t imagine showing up, most likely the only ‘cis-lesbian’ (I know this because I check these groups insta/fb sometimes) and a feminist who loves discussion and can’t remember people’s pronouns. Feels like I’ll out myself as a terf within an hour lol. Of course I could lie and pull various victim cards or keep my mouth shut, but then what’s the point?

One of my friends recently moved back closer to me though, and I saw on insta she follows a ‘known terf’ in my country so I have some hope for her, but then she’s straight so she might not really see the full impact of the issue.

winterwillow · 2021-11-06T21:38:37+00:00

Oh god it’s exactly like in the superstraight sub (RIP) where everyone was met with ‘cute and heckin’ valid’ hahahahaa

winterwillow · 2021-11-05T18:02:41+00:00

the inherent prejudice that many cisgender lesbians have against trans women, reducing them to their genitals, even they are outwardly accepting.

The inherent prejudice? Inherent? Like not only was I born a lesbian, I was also sadly born “transphobic”. Outwardly accepting? Yeah sorry about not inwardly accepting men, i e having sex with them. Like what are lesbians supposed to do? Play pretend and go on dates with these men and try to make up excuses for why it’s “not working out” when both parties know exactly why? Get raped for a good cause?

Such fucking disgusting rhetoric I seriously don’t know how these “journalists” who write this shit can look themselves in the mirror in the morning. How about the inherent homophobia of the trans rights movement?

winterwillow · 2021-10-28T10:54:46+00:00

Exactly! All I want to know is can I define my sexual orientation as a female only attracted to females i e homosexual/lesbian? Are such people as myself allowed our own spaces?

But they know they can’t answer those questions, since that would expose them as homophobes. Better to whine about survey sample sizes.

winterwillow · 2021-10-28T10:46:38+00:00

Just had to comment, the magazine this person works at, Diva magazine for ~lesbians~ featured Riley J Dennis of ’your genital preferences is transphobic’ fame in their lesbian visability May issue - this year! To claim she doesn’t know about this issue is absurd!

winterwillow · 2021-04-20T05:56:55+00:00

Yeah I got banned from AL for arguing that lesbian means women attracted to women, and that it isn't political lesbianism (don't know where that counter argument came from?) to say so. Didn't even say anything about trans people at all.

This is just plain sexism, can't believe people who censor the word women with womxn have no trouble calling themselves non-men. This is why queer theory academia can be filled with hundreds of essays on 'what is a woman?' 'are lesbians women' 'constructing womenhood' etc, while never asking what a man is. Because everyone knows what a man is. A man has a dick that he penetrates with. A woman is the one getting penetrated. But oh no, some women don't want to be penetrated. Are they even women? And oh no some men like being penetrated. Are they even men? And with that they've constructed this artificial gray area which is basically the foundation of gender identity ideology.

Like I get it, there are discussions to be had about different parts of womenhood, like I'm a lesbian and childfree, of course womenhood is different for me than for a straight woman with kids. And at least I view my body differently because of it. But it's still a woman's body, and I'm still a woman. Not a non-man in a no man's (!) land between ~genders~.

winterwillow · 2021-04-20T05:35:15+00:00

The rule of thumb seem to be to interpret anything as 'queer' if you're nonbinary. Nb female + female = queer, nb female + male =queer. So a trans masc afab + trans femme amab = queer according to them, even if one goes by their ~genders~ it's heteronormative. As long as they get to be anything other than cis and straight, they don't care about inconsistency.

winterwillow · 2021-04-17T20:59:07+00:00

Trying to not post all insanity going on at AL but posts like these are so telling for the confusion and mixed messages young lesbians are facing trying to be actually homosexual while women they're attracted to identify as nonbinary and men they're not attracted to identify as lesbians.

One commenter even claims "none of the senses humans possess can perceive gender others were assigned at birth. It’s therefore impossible to be attracted or not attracted to them based on it." The same person later go on to insist that there are "nonbinaries assigned male at birth who have vaginas." Considering the number of transbians with girldicks, I highly doubt it.

winterwillow · 2021-03-26T22:22:41+00:00

It's like how sometimes they claim this sub is 'straight conservatives pretending to be gay/a dangerous altright movement to divide the community' and sometimes it's 'just a couple of loser terf lesbians whatever'. Like which one is it?

winterwillow · 2021-03-26T13:05:58+00:00

Exactly. Lesbians not wanting dick = bye transphobes! Transwomen grooming minors = carry on, don't give transphobes any ammunition!

winterwillow · 2021-03-25T16:33:14+00:00

I noticed that too, "terf misinformation" lol.

winterwillow · 2021-03-21T22:32:21+00:00

Thank you! Yeah of course I have to bite my tongue sometimes when it comes to people falling for such an outrageous claim - ridiculous as you say - but I try to remember that in a couple of years, when it's all unravelling, because it will, I don't want people to feel like they'll never be welcomed back because of the things they believed or the things they did to themselves.

winterwillow · 2021-03-21T22:20:51+00:00

I've thought about this, mostly on the subject on transwomen in lesbian spaces, because tbh I think it's a fight no one will have our backs in. Anyways, let's assume the percentage of lesbians as in actual homosexual women are around 1-2%, and the number of transwomen are about 0,5% but probably growing. That would give us 10-20 lesbians out of 1000 women, and 5 transwomen out of 1000 men. I would guess at least half of those would be transbians, let's say 2. So best case scenario 2 transbians - 20 lesbians in 2000 people would be a good guesstimate.

However, if you're to have a purely lesbian event/group, it is of course complicated by the fact that many lesbians call themselves nonbinary/trans masc or transition even, and some bi women call themselves lesbians, and that transbians would love the validation from something like that so worst case scenario you'd end up with say half the lesbians attending (5-10) all the transbians (3+) and bi women (maybe 10-15 since they at 3-5% of the population easily outnumber lesbians) making lesbians the minority in their own community.

This is just me playing around with numbers though, but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if transbians, with AMAB nonbinaries etc added, already (at least in certain populations/cities) outnumber homosexual women.

winterwillow · 2021-03-17T09:16:53+00:00

I agree with you. It's obvious that she's not doing great and knowing what could have lead her to make this decision (abuse, ED, homophobia), there's no need to be cruel. I have a friend with a teen daughter, Page looks like any other edgy non-binary they/them, albeit in a younger demographic. Her transition isn't the wrong way to go because she's 5'1 and has a bad haircut and wont ever pass, it's the wrong way because it - after the buzz dies down and the novelty wears off - wont fix the underlying issues.

winterwillow · 2021-03-07T22:47:10+00:00

And the name Sophie comes from the greek word for wisdom, so yeah he did name himself the wise beautiful woman lol

winterwillow · 2021-03-06T09:15:37+00:00

Well they always tried to hide their hatred of homosexuality so it's nice to watch them have to put it out there in the open that they actually think only dating 'cis-people' is hating trans people. Like thanks for being honest.

Another thing I've thought about when it comes to this is that the compromise most TRA's seems to agree on is that genital preference is valid, but it's transphobic to assume someone's genitals and not to see trans people as their gender.

That's a very effective way to shame people, because many transpeople (especially AGP's) don't pass. So lesbians/gay men get told it's valid to have a 'genital preference', but most LG's know deep down that the reason they don't want to date a trans person isn't because of 'attraction to genitals' in the first place, it's because they don't see, for example, transwomen as women and rightly assume they have male genitalia. So while TRA's assure people that yes it's valid, they also at the same time always make sure to install shame in people for not being sexually attracted to both sexes.

I think this shame might cause lesbians/gay men to double down on the TWAW, etc in public because they remain a 'T*RF in the sheets' so to speak and are made to feel guilty for it. (This goes for bi people too of course, but it seems like TRA's have given up the bi/pan thing and just assume anyone with those labels will date any 'gender'.)

winterwillow · 2021-02-28T22:22:44+00:00

Lol no, it's boobs not brains that goes nowadays, get with the programme!

winterwillow · 2021-02-28T22:20:36+00:00

I've been noticing the increase in posts the last two months as well - and I actually really enjoyed them, but could tell the mods were definitely getting nervous.

Same. Maybe this is a tinfoiled idea, but I do think the E Page coming out as trans and the reactions to that low-key/subconsciously peaked some otherwise 'woke' lesbians. Not to the point of becoming gc, but maybe just looking around being like 'wait a minute, are we actually any lesbians left that aren't non-binary or trans-masc and wait, does this mean I shouldn't call them lesbians even, but all these trans women are calling themselves lesbians hmmm...' And then they go looking for people that have the same feeling.

No idea why they chose to go private today, and yeah I checked ahs too, haha.

winterwillow · 2021-02-28T20:02:28+00:00

My take us that it's enough that they even allow questions like the one you posted about to be asked. Someone might be able to read about lack of community/objectification of lesbians by men, then go over to look at the anime tiddie fest over at AL, and put two and two together.

winterwillow · 2021-02-28T19:53:13+00:00

One can only hope this peaks them and/or some users, they can do the lipservice and throw the rest of us under the bus, they'll still be next in line.

winterwillow · 2021-02-28T19:49:36+00:00

They've tried very hard to not get the sub banned I agree, but I made a post here some weeks ago that transbians still found it 'terfy', probably since they can't jump into every conversation with 'I'm trans so blah blah' or post endless 'twaw' or girl dick memes there. I don't know if you agree with me on this, but to me there's been an influx of political posts/nice to have a sub for lesbians posts there these last months (maybe why the mods have been cracking down harder?) and that exactly what happened right before tiny /biological lesbians got banned. The problem isn't the sub not being 'trans-inclusive' the problem is acknowledging there are actual lesbians at all, be them cis or trans, because the TRA's want everything to be queer and wlw and fluid so they can pretend homosexuality doesn't exist. 'Lesbians only' is 'exclusionary' and a 't**f dogwhistle' to them, no matter how much the mods say twaw.

winterwillow · 2021-02-25T18:06:41+00:00

Exactly. We might as well all call ourselves non-binary and pansexual with an added preference for penis or vagina or no preference at all. We can dress and act how we like, but for convenience we can call people with vaginas women and people with penises men and maybe women who are pansexual with a vagina preference for lesbians... No wait... /s

winterwillow · 2021-02-25T14:31:25+00:00

In our brave new world bisexual females and heterosexual males =lesbians, while homosexual females are bisexual or (my personal fave!) 'pansexual with a vagina preference.' Would be interesting to ask this question in a more non-koolaid sub.

winterwillow · 2021-02-23T14:52:26+00:00

Sure, I'll send you a PM with the link!

winterwillow · 2021-02-17T20:41:27+00:00

You're welcome! And yeah I know, I was in a relationship where we were doing great just the two of us, but where she had other issues outside of that, and in the end I had to break it off. I was still in love with her but the situation as a whole was unsustainable. It was very painful, but looking back I did the right thing, because her situation is still the same, and I would still be in it with her hoping for change if I'd stayed. It might sound insane saying your gf doesn't like you when you say it to yourself, but I hope if you voice your concerns with your friends that they will see your side of the story.

No worries about the tmi :) One of the reasons I answered your post is because it's maybe the third I've read in a short time with just this kind of issue. (and I'm banned from replying on some places on reddit lol) I don't want to police how people have sex, but at least to me, these one-side relationship are outliers and shouldn't represent how lesbian sex mostly works. No one should feel like well I'm a pleaser or I identify as a top, so it's normal that my gf doesn't touch me, doesn't want me to undress, doesn't initiate sex, uncaringly rolls away after she's done. Unless this is something both parties want and have agree upon of course.

I hope that eventually you'll come out of this feeling like you learned something about yourself and what you want in a girlfriend. You might feel like you've gone backwards, but that might have a lot to do with you having been rejected over and over by the one person who should want you the most. I do wish you the best, and if you feel like giving me an update on how it's going for you feel free to send me a DM!

winterwillow · 2021-02-17T18:09:02+00:00

Thanks for replying! Ok I'm going to be honest, that's actually worse than I imagined. I assumed from your post that she knew about it, but was pretty oblivious as to how much the lack of sex was an issue for you.

From what you're writing now, it seems that she knows, says it'll change and then nothing happens. And up front she says it's because of her issues, but then she subtly puts the responsability on you by saying she can't please you, that she is a lesbian (so that her orientation wont be seen as a possible cause) and telling you about all the times other (male) partners pleased her. Being open about sexual experiences and having much of it is great, but there's a time and place for it. She might be the sweetest girl otherwise, but this behavior is not ok to me, just judging from what you've told me.

I'm sorry you've ended up in this situation! If she was motivated to do something about it, ilke you write, it would be different of course. There's sadly the possibility that the reason she doesn't try to do anything is because she knows what the real issue is, but she doesn't want to lose you, because she loves you and is happy with other aspects of the relationship. But you're both in your twenties I assume, and you both deserve relationships with mutual attraction and health sex lives. I know it's hard, but maybe it can help seeing it that way. That if it ends it might be the best for both of you, not just for yourself.

winterwillow · 2021-02-17T10:47:34+00:00

Hi! I haven't really been in your position, but I've been on the other side of the fence so to speak, so I thought I'd share my thoughts. I'm in my thirties for reference.

So me and my first serious girlfriend had a good sex life, but when we moved in together (in retrospect too early maybe) it hit a slump. This was entirely because of me, I had relationship issues from my childhood (not sexual abuse) I wasn't aware of. So the first months were difficult, and my gf was of course concerned, (me too!), but I contacted health care, we saw it through and it did pick up again after three months maybe. I think it was also both of us getting used to living together and entering a new phase in our relationship. So I fully get not wanting to have sex/dry spells in a relationship, that's normal but not for years unless there's other complications.

You also write about being 'first gf' for most of your partners. Now I don't know if that includes your current gf, but the thing is, if someone's never been with a girl/had a gf before of course the first months are going to be exciting no matter how attracted they truly are to this 'first gf'. (Not saying you're unattractive of course!) And if they're bi/have only been with men, they might have idealized ideas of what a lesbian relationship/sex will be for them, that reality might not live up to.

Not saying this is what's going on with your gf but the combination of a) not appearing to be attracted to you b) citing bad experiences with men c) not being motivated to work on it is concerning. Of course she might be a lesbian, but her not seeing herself having sex with men again doesn't automatically make her one. And as lesbians, we shouldn't have to be the saviors or consolation prizes to women who don't want to be with men, but don't particularly want to be with women either. It's not biphobia to want a partner who's attracted to you the same way you are to her, it's normal. You have every reason to want that and to feel upset about the state of your relationship.

No matter what's going on with your gf, it is in the end her issue to solve, and I say this as someone who's had these kind of problems. If she doesn't want to have sex/don't see the issue/maybe isn't even attracted to you, there's nothing you can do really, besides to wait and see and it seems like you have done for quite some time. I wont say talk to her, since it's such generic advice, but maybe try bringing up the lack of sex and see how she reacts/how she feel about it? Maybe you'll get some answers from that.

winterwillow · 2021-02-16T21:32:34+00:00

No by TQ logic there's no way to have spaces for lesbians (or gay men or bi people even) because they base attraction/identity on gender. Straight male one day, trans lesbian the next works fine for them.

On a positive note, sure the only thing lesbians have in common is being females only attracted to other females and that doesn't mean we all get along or share interests. But there's still value in lesbian/lgb spaces to me. I've been very fortunate to hang out/live with lgb people from all over the world and to have lesbian friend circles (though those were my ex's so not anymore lol) and there's some experiences we all share on different levels. There's something special with being around people that are just like you in a way, even if it's only cooking dinner together.

There's of course nothing wrong with my straight friends, but some things they don't understand. That's ok, they don't have to, there's things I don't get about straight life either, but it's nice for once to not always be' the gay one'.

There's something lost when ~queer~ spaces mostly seems to be about validating people's made up identities, not a space where people can just be themselves, no question whether they're 'valid' or belong. We all know (and all ~queer~ people know too) what a homo/bisexual person is.

winterwillow · 2021-02-16T20:52:52+00:00

Trans-inclusive but lesbian-centered r/actuallylesbian has been gaining traction lately, and has several posts from people tired of cat girl memes and male gazey anime. So naturally the transbians are coming for it, remains to see whether their trans-inclusive policy will save them.

winterwillow · 2021-02-16T09:54:38+00:00

Exactly. They can dye their hair and alter their bodies and have bdsm-sex and tweet about 'eww cis gays' all they want, heterosexuality is still plain old heterosexuality at the end of the day, and there's nothing subversive about it. That's why they hate lgb alliance so much, they don't care for an organisation that focused on (plain old) lgb people, they want a community of deviance to latch on to, that can offer them a 'not like others' special identity.

winterwillow · 2021-02-16T09:33:10+00:00

Yup. I was banned from actuallesbians for stating that defining lesbianism as 'non-men' attracted to 'non-men' divided people into 'men' and 'other' like men are the default and the rest is a jumbled pile and that gay men don't define themselves as 'non-women' attracted to 'non-women'. Someone got terfy vibes from this statement I guess, went through my post history and deemed me a transphobe. So yeah transwomen are women, the rest of us are 'womxn' or 'non-men'.

winterwillow · 2021-02-15T21:42:03+00:00

Well most transwomen are actually straight white men so guess we're even then 🤷‍♀️

winterwillow · 2021-02-14T08:43:37+00:00

It's becoming increasingly clear that the only time it's ok to identify 'as a cis lesbian' is if you a) are writing a post/twitter thread in defense of transbians or b) if you're a transbian's girlfriend, so the transbian can use it as proof that all other cis lesbians would have sex with transbians and those who don't have a genital preference = 'terfy'.

Instead it seems many real lesbians call themselves pansexual and nonbinary and pretend they only have relationships with females out of pure coincidence.

winterwillow · 2021-02-13T22:27:54+00:00

There's an episode of the actual feminists podcast (which is good overall) Reading hour: Sappho by surgery, where one of the hosts reads the chapter on trans lesbians from The Transexual Empire. Still very relevant today! It's on Spotify.

winterwillow · 2021-02-12T19:21:58+00:00

But who will validate the heterosexual transpeople's identities as queers and give them ~euphoria~ if we're not around??? We owe it to them after all Stonewall, transwomen of color, bricks, something something. /s

winterwillow · 2021-02-12T18:54:55+00:00

Exactly. And transbians trying to convince lesbians to have sex with them because dysphoria/no piv/'mouthfeel' like lesbians don't have any sexual desires at all, we just don't want dick and need convincing otherwise. But for some reason I never see transbians trying to convince lesbians that their asshole is just like a pussy. Funny that.

winterwillow · 2021-02-12T07:36:32+00:00

I'm willing to bet a lot on that this person received a polite 'no, no new partners because of covid' and continue to press 'is it because I' m traaaaaans???!!?' just to get another polite answer, so she could write an insta post on how rude giving a reason is.

Also I hate how creepy and weirdly puritanical these so called' sex-positive' trans people are. 'You don't have have to remove your underwear, you don't have to touch someone's genitals, you don't have to be aroused to have sex, there are so many toys and ways to go about'. Well sorry for wanting to have sex naked with someone I'm physically attracted to, how old-fashioned and cissexist of me!

winterwillow · 2021-02-10T18:19:03+00:00

Finally, “dyke” entered the mainstream as the first national Dyke March took place in Washington, D.C. in 1993. Held without a permit, it was organized by the Lesbian Avengers, a trans-inclusive group of radical women who loved women. They took part in direct actions around the country for decades. Many of the members did not identify as lesbians but instead as transgender, bisexual, or pansexual among other identities.

I did some looking into this Lesbian Avengers group out of curiosity. There's nothing on their website or original handbook or manifest from 1994 to suggest they were 'trans-inclusive' as is demanded today. To have one or two transexuals join and politely use the right pronouns and let them tag along, wouldn't cut it today where you're supposed to center trans people and deny biology to make them feel 'safe'. Or that these women would call themselves anything but lesbians, though some might have been bi or straight even. They don't even mention bisexuality, to think they'd call themselves pan is pure fiction.

I did find this article from 2008 (https://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/395/gender-vertigo) on what it was like in the Lesbian Avengers in San Francisco in late 90's early 00's. The author would probably be called a terf today lol. I think it describes pretty well what happened to these groups, they started as a way of having a community away from gay men, was very inclusive and encouraging of women calling themselves lesbians, 'We recruit!' was a tagline. Then when lgb people got more accepted and gender ideology gained more traction, lesbians in the group came out as trans men and trans women were included.

And of course as the Lesbian Avengers kept people who didn't see themselves as lesbians and let in people who weren't lesbians, the group was abandoned by the women who were. There's a passage in the article where one of the newly included trans women shows off the pierced nipples of his estrogen boobs, and I feel nauseous just thinking about how much 'gender euphoria' this (probably) agp male got out if doing that to lesbians like he was one of them.

It's funny in a way, because these 'trans dykes' of course know very well that they need cis lesbians no matter how much they talk shit about us and try to forcefully educate us on our own history so we'll be more inclusive. A room with twenty of these guys does not a lesbian community make, to themselves or lesbians or any onlooker, then they can call themselves dykes how much they want.

Sorry for hijacking your post, just thought the actual history was interesting.

winterwillow · 2021-02-05T20:17:18+00:00

This is not a place for your transphobic bullshit, in fact the Sapphic/WLW community was never a place for your transphobic shit.

Lol no since the sapphic/wlw community is basically just ~queer~ women and straight men nowadays, we know it's not a place for lesbians. It's very telling for the demographics of that sub that this post got awards and almost a thousand upvotes, while a post by an actual lesbian about the lack of lesbian only spaces got just a hundred, and several comments about how that it would need severe moderation not to get exclusionary and 'terfy'.

You were hated by the gay activists on the ground, you were hated by the working class gays and lesbians, you were hated by most of the second & third waves of feminism.

Second wave feminism is basically radical feminism, and as a working class lesbian now, I'm sure my kind back then knew what homosexual meant. But I guess historical revisionism is ok in the name of gender ideology.

I'd really like some of these TRA's to explain to me how me as a woman not having sex with men is upholding patriarchy and white nationalism, since most male white nationalists would probably see it the other way around, but hey what do I know? I keep 'misunderstanding' the immense differences there is between dick and girldick after all.

winterwillow · 2021-02-03T17:21:31+00:00

We are women, even, without HRT and/or gender dysphoria and would like to be treated as such.

I e treated as potential sexual partners, but no that can't be because that NEVER happens, no one is trying to coerce lesbians into having sex with men. They're just kindly explaining for the love of Sappho to cis lesbians that feminine penis is nothing like masculine penis. And if it seems coercive, it's just because cis lesbians are so incredibly dense and fail to understand that difference between soft and pretty ladydique and rockhard man dick, so the poor transbians are forced to keep explaining and educate out of the kindness of their hearts. They wont even insist on piv sex, wow how sweet of them! Nothing like cis men at all, totally different! /s

winterwillow · 2021-01-28T19:41:33+00:00

So they're a cis lesbian when they need to validate their trans overlords, but nonbinary and maybe bi else where? That's convenient.

TRA's go on and on about cisnormativity, sexuality is fluid etc etc, but when it comes to validation the cis homosexuals are suddenly very valuable to them. It's always' I'm a cis gay man/lesbian and I support trans people blah blah', I can't remember seeing a post like this by a pansexual nb femme.

winterwillow · 2021-01-27T12:11:18+00:00

A comment:

My friend said she knows someone exactly like this........She claims she's a lesbian, but then says that she dates "people without penises." All of the people she's been attracted to are either cis women or transmen who don't pass yet....and she still says she's a lesbian. Something just seems wrong there.

No that's not wrong, that's just what homosexuality means.

It's also interesting how - especially on their own trans subreddits - they still recognize the need for language to separate males and females. There's a lot of borderline "terf rethoric" in those comments, about how "MTF's or nb AMAB's" treat "FTM's or nb AFAB's". It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

winterwillow · 2021-01-22T18:37:12+00:00

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I haven't seen the film, but I have read Tracy Chevalier's novel Remarkable Creatures about Mary Anning, and I'm familiar with her story. When I heard that Francis Lee was making this movie I thought they had uncovered something new, like love letters, that had prompted the lesbian story line. I was very surprised when I started to read more about it and found out that wasn't the case.

I can understand Lee's line of reasoning, but it doesn't hold up to me. There were many reasons why a woman wouldn't marry if she had the means not to. Anning was famous for her fossil-hunting from a young age and very independent. As a married woman she would have had a husband making her decisions for her, and children to care for, no time for walking for hours on the beach looking for dinosaurs. She might have been a lesbian sure, but just from reading about Ann Lister and her lovers during the same period, that didn't stop women from marrying men, for security, respectability and to have a family of their own. To interpret someone's unmarried life as a sign of homosexuality seems farfetched to me. And unless one has definate proof, letters, diaries, convictions, pictures etc, I don't think it's good practice to ascribe an historical person a sexuality.

I know it is tempting, I do a lot of genealogy research and of course I've found individuals that for different reasons I think potentially might've not been straight. But as long as it's only that, it will remain just an idea in my head. If they were indeed gay, I'm doing them justice by reckognizing that potential but if they weren't, I'm not doing them the injustice of ascribing them a different sexuality just because they didn't lead a heteronormative life. And the idea that homosexuality is biological didn't gain traction until the late 19th century, before that it was seen as a sin and the road to eternal damnation. Most LGB's lived on the surface the life of heterosexual people, leaving nothing behind to indicate otherwise.

I feel like Lee read the story of Anning, thought that it would make a great setting with the windswept desolate landscape (much like in God's own country) and it wouldn't be just another period drama by including a lesbian love story. I've read other mixed reviews as well, but I think I will watch it. I think Winslet is great and the trailer looks promising, even if I still do think Lee isn't doing right by Anning.

winterwillow · 2021-01-19T21:00:18+00:00

Thank you! I've been thinking a lot about the trans movement's view on sex and sexuality, hope it can be be useful in your IRL conversations.

That we always have to keep the door open and create the impression that we could be open to males. And that dating apps have as a default that we must accept males in our dating pool and how not only disrespectful it is, but how purposeful it is.

Exactly. This is something I've also thought about, the term 'genital preference', how it makes it sound like a mtf in wanting to date a lesbian stumbles on the last hurdle (sex) that up onto that point (dating, making out etc.) they're still in the running. Because saying you're only attracted to females, not someone's 'female gender identity' aren't allowed.

winterwillow · 2021-01-18T18:17:29+00:00

Thank you! Re-reading my post, I'd like to emphazise that I didn't mean that one has to be a radical feminist unaffected by society's demands to be a 'good' lesbian. What I meant was that I see a push where especially lesbian but also gay, are more identities and labels, where the accepted way to express you're a lesbian is 'I wear flannel and listen to Girl in Red, I'm such a top', but you're not allowed to talk about what actually makes you lesbian, or the reality of being a homosexual woman, that's dated and uncool and 'terfy'. There's a huge body/mind disconnect going on where your sexuality isn't practice as much as performance in the postmodernist sense, filling the 'queer community' with heterosexual people, and making homosexual people feel like they're not 'gay' enough.

It's very troubling how they've hijacked our community and deconstructed language in order to try and create som queer utopia where sure people 'identify' as having a sexuality, but where biological sex aren't allowed to matter.

winterwillow · 2021-01-17T10:35:53+00:00

Been in the community 15 years, never heard any lesbian use it, and hardly any gay men actually, i e never heard any of them go 'I' m such a top' like all the reddit memes. I've always seen it as gay male terms used for compatibility when it comes to sex, not something that's referred to in every day conversations.

Me personally, I see this push to not only use, but 'identify' with these terms as part of trying to create this 'cool girl lesbian'. (have you read the passage from Gone Girl by Gillian Flynn?) Someone who isn't interested in cishetero feminism or icky women's issues like sexual assault, someone who rather adopt gay male culture than cultivate their own, someone who might only sleep with women, but offers up pictures or accounts of how soft and uwu (or dirty and kinky) it is for men to enjoy so they aren't excluded, someone who spends way too much time making sure everyone knows they don't hate men, i e a lesbian that poses no threat, still dependent on male approval.

This of course includes chanting 'transwomen are women', and adopting these gay male terms, as to make sure that lesbian sex is viewed through a heteronormative lens, much like gay sex, where one is giving and the other receiving. Once this is done, it's no longer foremost about being a woman wanting to have sex with another woman, but a 'bottom' wanting to have sex with a 'top'. And how can you as a lesbian 'bottom' refuse to have sex with a lesbian 'top' just because 'she' has an 'organic strap-on'? (Or a gay 'top' refuse to have sex with a 'bottom' with a 'bonus hole' ?) Because remember no feminist analysis of material reality here, only queer theory please. So basically, being such a 'cool girl lesbian' means gaining male approval, but also losing the ability/words to say no to sex with men.

I wrote another comment on a post about AGB that the trans movement seems so eager to want to construct sex as 'a stick goes into a hole' no matter what sticks or holes you have between you, and someone answered that they are eager to do that because that's the only way they have a chance of participating. If sex is a whole body experience, than what do they have to offer?

winterwillow · 2021-01-16T12:43:17+00:00

What strikes me when I read these kind of posts is how rudimentary and stereotypically 'heterosexual' their idea of having sex is. Like it's all about putting the stick in the hole. And all holes are the same, ass/vagina/neo vagina and all sticks too, dick/phallo/dildo, and as long as you have enough holes and sticks between you and no one has one of those uneducated preferences, they don't get why there would be an issue.

The OP in the post write that they plan to have phallo, but if enough men like her vagina she'll keep using it instead. Like 'well if I need a stick I'll get one, otherwise I'll just keep my hole and use that instead of the other hole'. And she seems genuinly surprised to learn that no, phallo and dick aren't the same. I think some gay transmen only think of getting phallo for aesthetics, since they're heterosexual females, they never plan on trying to use it or dating another 'gay' transman.

winterwillow · 2021-01-16T10:37:14+00:00

This is interesting, do you mind sharing the artist's name? I saw the lawyer/activist Pauli Murray being transed on an insta post, but her Wikipedia still uses female pronouns. I don't think the argument to trans historical gnc people stands, that they just 'lacked the language'. Murray saw herself as 'the man of the relationship' and a 'sexual invert' in the 30'-40's, who's to say she would have been a trans man today, she might have been a butch lesbian in the 90's. It's not for the trans movement to decide, in order to create a 'We were always here' narrative.

winterwillow · 2021-01-15T19:03:15+00:00

I read an article on Pink news (sorry!) about the girl, edit: Summer Taylor, who was killed at a protest in Seattle last year. She and her injured friend were both nonbinary using they/them pronouns, so the article where the friend was interviewed was virtually unreadable, since it was impossible to know whether the they was singular or plural, referring to Taylor, the friend or them both. "They went with them, and then they went by themselves" or something like it. They/them pronouns don't work if everyone start using them.

winterwillow · 2021-01-15T18:53:25+00:00

This makes me incredibly sad and disappointed. I'm very familiar with the journalist who wrote this and her experiences, she lived in Russia for a long time as an open lesbian with her wife and kids, and has written several books about the political situation in Russia, and Putin himself. She's appearently not ftm, but non-binary, and the only thing changed is her pronouns sometime during the last two years.

The whole piece she's just listing TRA talking points, that some children are more mature than others, that in the days of yore children grew up faster, that genitals aren't important for sexual pleasure, that insisting on importance of fertility is biological determinism, that de-transitioning is no big deal and above all basically never happens, blah blah spectrum spectrum why is everyone so obsessed with sex and age, we should all be above that and be non-binary everything and ask about a dog's eating habits instead of it's age. So f*cking tiresome and pretentious. And this from someone who's been a lesbian mother in a country with laws against homosexuality. Like I do understand internalized homophobia etc, but she's 53 years old! You'd think someone in her age and with the life she had would be more resiliant to the dogma, but appearently not. So disappointed.

winterwillow · 2021-01-14T08:45:53+00:00

just that sex has little to nothing to do with gender.

Great. And since we're same-sex attracted, someone's gender identity has little to nothing to do with our sexual attraction. Glad we cleared that up!

Edit: And could these white knights please stop misusing the term 'dogwhistle' and especially when it comes a missing space between trans and woman. Yeah sure when I went on /gc in 2014 there where still people trying to reach a compromise by saying there are 'women' and 'transwomen', however that wasn't enough to appease the TRAs and that ship sailed years ago. Radfems don't hang around twitter 'dogwhistling' with the word 'transwomen', they say trans-identified male nowadays.

winterwillow · 2021-01-12T17:51:09+00:00

Thank you and you're welcome! You're right, it's very deceptive, and much like any other 'nice guy' he seems to feel entitled to women's time and attention simply by not being as bad as the other transbians. Never ceases to amaze me how these males can act exactly like so many other straight men, while claiming to be the exact opposite.

I wrote a longer reply to another user below about finding his trans account, you'll probably find it interesting as well. I would post his other username but I don't want to break any rules.

winterwillow · 2021-01-12T17:49:32+00:00

Thank you! I read your comment after I posted mine, and I think we both were on to the same thing, that this is a curated account. And I think you're right about it being 'means to an end' i e he wants to larp as a lesbian better.

I did some more poking around in his comments, and it became quite clear that he first made this account to pose as a female/lesbian, for instance, he comments about being afraid to give birth/become a mother on /childfree and about same-sex marriage on Christian subs.

Not to brag about my internet sleuth skills, all I did was search his location + profession in /mtf after poking around but I did find his trans account. It's not all TRA, I hate terfs etc, so not fully Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde, but as I predicted, he doesn't disclose on dating apps. Probably because he is trans med and thinks hrt makes him female. There's a link to a blog with a profile pic, and no way does he pass/is he stealth. His dates after transition has also been mtf. A lot of complaining about being single and not fitting in anywhere.

He's also posted in /detrans that his transition hasn't resulted in anything, if you read between the lines: no cis girlfriend. He keeps describing himself as a nymphomanic/sex addict, but there's little of that on this trans account, so maybe he has a third account for all his porn/fetish stuff.

I found this comment by him that further prove you were right about the larping, from 8 months ago on his old account (his new account is 9 months old):

This is something I've definitely noticed as well. Someone else described how many trans people are like this: Imagine you move to a foreign country but only ever hang out with other expats at expat hangouts, are you really integrating yourself and living in the other country?

So now he's trying to integrate himself into the land of lesbians by posting about being an 'assertive top' and have lesbians assure him it's normal to feel like straight guy. It's so insidious. I would post the username, but would that be doxxing?

(Also good for you for noping out on a transbian therapist, sound like a nightmare.)

winterwillow · 2021-01-12T09:35:54+00:00

Checked the user's post history. He post about loving to tell stories, and now he's telling himself (and others) the ultimate story about himself as a lesbian.

Examples: Post that he's the 'token gay friend' in his circle of friends, but since he only came out as trans three years ago and has had his friends for way longer the truth is more that they're a group of straight people, he transitioned, he isn't token anything.

Claims to be 'fully transitioned and stealth' without GRS, which is an oxymoron, claims to pass as an 'androgynous tomboy' but has immense imposter syndrome and transitioned as a 25 year old so probably don't, posts about how he can only feel like a lesbian in settings where there are no other trans people around, when another 'trans woman' arrives, the illusion (or his delusions) is shattered.

Posts about telling stories that works on parties and dates, but also post about having only been on one date since transitioning 3 years ago. He seem to have latched on to the idea that he should have been born not only a woman, but specifically a lesbian, that if he just had the female body he would be ok just being himself and still be attractive to women, as a 'soft butch' or something.

And in a way it's easier to feel sympathy for him than the loud mouth 'girl dick' 'big tiddies' transbians, but at the same time, he goes on a lesbian forum posting about feeling like a man, while dropping the 'trans man' hint to make it seem like he is female, no word about his actual trans status. That's incredibly decieving. He also post about feeling like a man when he's angry, and that he has a short temper and is aggressive sexually.

That makes me think him going on dating sites catfishing lesbians and throwing fits when they're not interested has most likely happened during these three dateless years. He might very well have two reddit accounts, one with all his trans history and a lot of hatred of women, and this one, his 'real lesbian' account where he's all 'poor me, am I too aggressive, I'm just like you, will someone like me, I'm insecure'.

All in all, this level of deception (or if I'm being nice dissociation, but that doesn't make it any less unsettling) creeps me out way more than other transbians. This is also why I took a look at /actuallylesbian after true lesbians was banned, and left. I don't want to discuss relationship dynamics with someone who's secretly male and getting validation from being 'just one of the lesbians'. No thank you.

winterwillow · 2021-01-03T12:24:29+00:00

This is a follow up to the post debated here: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/73c3/how_dare_you_equate_a_penis_to_a_man/ Another 'pre op transgirl' not feeling welcome in /actuallesbians and accusing cis lesbians of being performative in their support of transbians since they have the nerve to still post about not wanting dick. More transbians join in and whine about how they're seemingly welcome there, but not wanted, and that prioritizing genitals is cisnormative.

Just goes to show that being an ally to these people is impossible, if they're not satisfied with AL, they'll never be satisfied. It's kinda funny seeing them still trying to blame lurking terfs though, like no, you're just hating ordinary lesbians by now.

winterwillow · 2020-12-30T12:23:03+00:00

98.5% out of heterosexual women even. Though lesbians being more 'inclusive' is due to being open to dating trans men, (19%) instead of trans women (9%). I also think the number across all sexualities are actually lower (except for maybe the bi/nonbinary category since I imagine it contains some 'sexuality is fluid/gender is a spectrum' people) because it is one thing answering a question and thinking of a hypothetical scenario, another to actually go on a date/start a relationship with someone who you aren't attracted to. No one wants to be discriminatory, but in reality will these 9% of lesbians ok with dating a trans woman seek out the oppurtunity? Probably not. And this is of course why the whole 'would you date a trans person' is an issue. If people wanted to date trans people, TRA's wouldn't have to make up stuff like 'genital preference'.

winterwillow · 2020-12-30T11:16:13+00:00

That whole account is a queer libfem nightmare. Everything is slogans, catch phrases and ~aestethic~ destroy/fuck/abolish patricarchy/racism/gender, love yourself, buy cute stuff, nonbinary sexworkers, intersectional everything, it's ok to have armpit hair (as long as your young and hot).

And it's of course always funny how when they're reposting tantalizing pictures of female intimacy, it's exactly that, females. Almost like this sjw social media manager still knows their target audience isn't those poor trans lesbians after all.

winterwillow · 2020-12-27T22:25:29+00:00

Do you believe people should or should not transition? Why or why not?

I do not believe people should transition unless every other option have been explored, and the person is over 25 years old. Learning self-acceptance can be very helpful even if transition turns out to be the best solution, since so many have very unrealistic 'transition goals'.

As the LGB, what would you like for the T to know or do for your group to support you?(talking about regular T, like gender non-conforming folks or homosexual transexuals, not the...autogynephiles).

Would like them to 1) acknowledge biological sex and that it can't be changed 2) acknowledge the need for separate spaces, I have great gay guy friends, still want a space away from them sometimes, it's not hate. 3) call out the entitled behaviour from heterosexual trans people. If we could start with these basic things, at least then maybe a productive dialogue could be had, instead of arguing over definitions and exclusion.

Do you know many in your circle that transitioned and are either part of the L, G, or B? What is the story behind that?

I have a trans women friend from middle/high school, who transitioned maybe 8 years ago when he was mid-twenties. He was always looking for a new identity, music, heritage, language etc. He is bisexual, but I only found out after he transitioned, and then he was already dating his current gf, who he met as a guy. He only dated guys in 'girl mode' and one of them treated him very badly sadly. He strikes me more as a HSTS, and he lives a quiet work-focused life nowadays, and is not active in any lgbt issues. I hope transition worked out for him, but I don't know how he's doing except some FB posts and messages.

I also met several trans men in transition when I was attending university in 2012, this was just about when the trans community started gaining traction. They were all homosexual i e lesbians from what I could tell, but I wasn't close to any of them, it was through the lgbt student organisation.

Have YOU been pressured to transition or be apart of the "queer" community?

Hmm, no, but I did have a period in my teens where I had dysphoria, did bind, cut my hair, dressed androgynously etc. And at my time at uni with the trans men, I did read Butler and made brain tests that told me I had a 'male brain' and thought I was demisexual and 'genderqueer', but I never said anything in public or to friends even, and pronouns wasn't a thing yet. And my rational male brain (lol) told me I could never identify out of my female body or oppression. And then I found rad fems on tumblr who said the same thing thankfully.

When do you predict the "T" will be dropped from the "LGB"?

I think the time is coming sooner than we think. We can't have that many more Keira Bell cases without some corner stones of the trans ideology crumbling. And there's a time limit to trends. How cool and special is it to be non-binary if your mom, sister, three of your friends and the entire lgbtqia+++ club identify as such? The sad thing is that the dropping should be done before everything crumbles, because they will try to drag us down with them, and homophobic politicians will try to take advantage. But I do have hope.

winterwillow · 2020-12-27T14:34:31+00:00

This is really interesting, thank you for the time and effort! Especially the overlaps around the ASD subreddits, which seem to confirm that autism is a factor in females identifying as trans or nonbinary. I would like to add that there's a subreddit for women with aspergers, r/aspergirls with 34K subscribers if you didn't know, maybe you'll find some overlaps there.

winterwillow · 2020-12-27T08:36:43+00:00

This genuinly scares me. I'm a victim of sexual assault by a stranger, and I have PTSD from it. To walk into a closed space, expecting only women there, and see a 6ft man with a handbag taking a selfie high on 'gender euphoria', it freaks me out honestly. Especially knowing he'll take any acknowledgement of him not belonging there, like walking back out, not going into a stall until he leaves, even looking uncomfortable etc, as a personal attack. Hope I'll never have to deal with that kind of situation.

winterwillow · 2020-12-23T17:41:00+00:00

I think HRC also names 'non-binary' Summer Taylor (the woman being hit by a car at a blm march in Seattle this July) as a trans death.

winterwillow · 2020-12-21T23:40:57+00:00

There's nothing narcissists hate more than being told no. The trans lesbians don't care about 'transphobia' as it's seen in the subs you mentioned. Why would they? The have the whole lgbt community kissing their feet, the next president on their side. The only time they think about their homosexual 'sisters' (actual victims of trans/homophobia) is when they get to use their death rates to show how oppressed they are. They're straight males, they don't fear other straight males not buying into their delusion, they know they don't have to. But 500 young females sharing memes and talking about internalized homophobia, not letting them in, refusing to play along in their lesbian fantasies? That's a real threat.

I've said it before, homosexuality (and heterosexuality but it's lgb they're targeting) is the real threat to gender ideology, because we can't play along when it comes to actually seeing them as sexual partners. And I honestly think some do hates us for it, and they have reddit on their side.

winterwillow · 2020-12-21T22:07:26+00:00

You're right, looking at the pic again, it does seem almost to perfect, like a 'no make-up' look, and I agree with you, I don't think the Hollywood actress skin care regimen is going anywhere. This supposedly effortless transman aesthetic is nowhere near effortless or spontaneous.

winterwillow · 2020-12-21T18:46:17+00:00

Haha, no me neither, but I've seen some where they don't wear any makeup but still seem to 'paint' their eyebrows to be wider and bushier, maybe because they think of it as making them seem more masculine. Or maybe it's just a general trend, I'm older and not into makeup so dunno.

winterwillow · 2020-12-21T10:04:42+00:00

Yes, yes! Was going to comment exactly this! I have seen some women in the queer insta famous category in my country come out as trans over the years and it's always this aesthetic: Black beanie or hoodie, bushy eyebrows, clenched jaw or sucked in cheeks to get some androgynous angles, and no smiling! Once you're a man the days of smiling in selfies is over. Because that gives them away. It's sad really.

winterwillow · 2020-12-20T18:40:58+00:00

It was a sweet post, I was happy to see it too. But the reactions... Tomboy lesbian: I feel comfortable with being a masculine woman. TRAs: This is hate speech!

But then some of them seem to think just mentioning vulvas on a LESBIAN sub is 'a bit terfy'. I hope biological lesbians can fly under the radar, it's really kicking off now and it's so appearent that it's needed.

winterwillow · 2020-12-18T18:23:28+00:00

Found this on AL, and it's something I've been thinking about too since the whole Elliott Page thing. Does being attracted to masc/butch women mean you're actually straight or pan according to gender ideology? The commenters explain it as since she didn't know they were men she viewed them as female, so that's some 'sanity' at least.

This must be so confusing and difficult to navigate for young LGB people, eager to be inclusive and 'kind' trying to be attracted to what they're not, and not be attracted to what they actually like because ~gender~.

winterwillow · 2020-12-18T17:01:40+00:00

You're welcome!

winterwillow · 2020-12-18T16:57:09+00:00

Thank you for sharing your story! In line with their 'customize your body' way of thinking, some trans people seem to think that it's just to stitch a body part on/in and you're all ready to go. I read about a woman giving birth with a donated uterus, and she only kept it just the time it took to get pregnant and carry the baby to term, then they removed it. The idea that a trans woman would be allowed to be put on the immune supressing drugs and go trough everything you describe, just in order to try and live out their 'accidently knocked up' fetish is absurd.

winterwillow · 2020-12-17T18:57:31+00:00

I don't think this is trans lesbian though? It doesn't seem like it from the post history, seems more like a young female to me, and being confused sexually from watching porn isn't that unusual. But it's telling how some replies are more concerned with her 'not equating penises with men' and 'lesbian is just a loose idea.'

winterwillow · 2020-12-17T13:18:42+00:00

Hi! Sorry for replying late! Yeah I think it strange how some gendercritical people use Blair as an example of 'a good transwoman'. How can you work to abolish gender while saying it's ok for 'true transexuals' to uphold it the way Blair does? And it's not as easy to separate tucutes/truscum as who has dysphoria and who has not.

I listened to Meghan Murphy's interview with Keira Bell, who on all account fit the brief for a 'true transexual' but she still detransitioned. In any of the truscum subreddits, she would have been told the risk for that happening was zero. Was she just a trender then?

Blair and others like him can do what they feel they need to have a good life, I don't hate him or wish for transsexuals not to exist, but I do feel that the' truscum' idea that dysphoria = trans = wrong brain/body = only treatment - surgery, is simplified and damaging. In the short term for those getting caught up in the trend now, and in the long term for people who do benefit from the standard treatment.

About the other surgeries I don't really have a reading recommendation, I did some looking into it like 6 months ago, maybe I should write a post on it after the holidays, but you can look up Eugen Steinach and his rejuvination surgery which was very popular in the 1920's. "This procedure, along with testicular implantation popularized by Serge Voronoff, was an attempt to rejuvenate older and fatigued men around the world. (...) Ultimately the lack of verifiable outcome data and the chemical isolation of the "internal secretion" (testosterone) ended this era in surgery."

Steinach was a friend of Harry Benjamin if you're familiar, and his collegues were the ones performining the grs on Einar Wegener/Lili Elbe, 'the Danish girl' in the 1930's. This was also the early days of transplant surgery, which is perhaps why they tried and failed to transplant a uterus into the 49 year old male, two decades before the first successful kidney transplant.

There is also Henry Cotton, who was in charge of the Trenton hospital in New Jersey, who believed mental disorders were caused by bacterial infections and could be cured by removing spleens, ovaries and colons for example, and he operated on many of the commited mental patients. This was in the 1920's, and the concern for the treatment was not the science or ethics, but that so many patients died, perhaps more than 30%.

It is not hard to draw parallells between the 1930's ideas of racial hygiene and treatments of mentally unwell/homosexual people, when the idea of transsexuality as a medical condition emerged and todays attitudes towards puberty blockers, 'what's the harm in potentially mentally stunting/sterilising a would be gay/anxious child? They won't procreate or be useful to society in their natural state anyways.'

But I understand that some people would find it extreme, and don't see the parallells at all. And I'm not saying, look at the history, this means all transgender surgery is bad! Just that there are reasons that this came to be seen as a condition with one specific solution, and there's a reason why this persisted, while treatment for other mental health issues moved away from surgery.

winterwillow · 2020-12-13T21:36:49+00:00

I'm on a 'tired of trans bullshit' roll today so I'll answer :) Truscums make out to be the sane people of the trans community, and in some ways they are, they want to fully transition, they believe you need dysphoria, they don't seem as eager to 'crack the egg' if people are questioning. So that makes them easier to have a conversations with. I feel a bigger percentage of them are homosexual, which also makes them less likely to call everything transphobic.

So I guess in my early geendercrit days I wanted to believe that this was the 'true transexuals' and that they were allies in a way. But as time went on, I changed my mind on this mainly for these reasons:

They are incredibly sexist. This comes with the ideology of course, but the 'tucutes' accept someone as a feminine trans guy, the truscum do not. Their transition goals are masculine men and feminine women, and not just in appearence but also in demeanour.

They believe being trans is a medical condition, and many subscribe to the 'born in the wrong body' theory and various brain scan studies that are supposed to prove this.

Since they work so hard to get treatment/pass, they feel entitled to be stealth, even deep stealth i e not telling even long term partners about being trans since it's a medical condition they've taken care of and no one's business.

Also since they are more likely to be homosexual transsexuals, they can be very homophobic too, perhaps unconsciously, where the underlying sentiment is that they are the ones doing it right, correcting their body to match not so much their mind, as their sexuality, and us lgb who may be fighting dysphoria/depression/discrimination should just give in to the natural order. I think this underlying sentiment is also why they are so reluctant to call out homophobic behaviour from heterosexual transpeople, like deep inside they still feel they have a point, lesbians not wanting men is unatural, a straight trans guy not so.

I think it boils down to that I've done a lot of reading on early trans history, and I think the whole concept, much like the medical diagnosis of hysteria was based in misogyny, is based in homophobia and dates back to a time (the 1930's) where the latest fashion in medicine was to cure mental issues with surgery. Lobotomies the clear examples, but there are others, and the reason it endured was because of both homophobia and sexism and surgeons with God complex, who felt entitled to experiment on people they deemed unworthy of a place in society or love or even just a healthy sex life in their current state.

It's been almost a hundred years now, and in a way, the trans medicalusts and truscums still subscribe to this, even more so than the rest of the trans community. It is all very anti-human, anti-science, against all progress made in the fields of psychology and sociology, and I can't accept that. I understand that there are people suffering from intense dysphoria, I understand some are helped by transitioning, but it is extremely rare and there should be more options of treatment available besides what is basically sterilisation.

winterwillow · 2020-12-13T20:49:40+00:00

Yes that's exactly it, they've grown up knowing there's nothing wrong with their attraction, and then they go after the people who've been made to feel odd or ashamed for it. The deviants as you say. And the community allows it because there's no more homophobia anymore, no need for labels, everything is a spectrum, while making up fivehundred micro identities to label themselves with. So now the queer community should include aromantic/trans/intersex/polyamorous people of all sexualities, like is there anyone not part of it now?

I'm not sure these people have a sexuality that can actually be expressed without roleplay, costumes, thigh highs and silicone toys, having sex with just your body parts is basic and vanilla and inherently transphobic probably lol.

winterwillow · 2020-12-13T12:19:17+00:00

The whole 'genital preference' thing is something that trans people has forced on lgb people, and now they have the gall to whine about it. It used to be that you as a lesbian could say, I'm only into women, and this was perhaps not always respected but at least seen a perfectly good reason to reject someone. And back then, most trans were homosexual anyways. Now most are heterosexual, and you can't reject a transwoman for being male, because 'some women have penises uwu' so you have to reject only the male genitalia and 'prefer' the female, which then became something to 'examine' because end game for these straight fetischists was never for people to be able to use that 'genital preference' excuse anyways.

Like this sub is called lgb drop the t, but actually, it feels more like t dropped us first, since sexual orientation is where the transgender illusion shatters, no matter how well they pass otherwise, or how much people play along in everyday life. And somehow it became our duty to make sure it doesn't, to accept straight/bi women as lesbians, to say we're bi or queer when our lesbian partners come out as trans men. Like who's erasing who here? As long as lgb transpeople play along with this, I see no reason for lgb to strand with t at all. (Sunday morning rant, sorry.)

winterwillow · 2020-11-03T11:23:13+00:00

Again the transbians are stealing the experience of homosexual transsexuals, with these 'extremely dangerous' comments. How is it dangerous for a heterosexual man to decieve a lesbian into dating him? No transbian has ever faced violence by doing that, but then I don't count the lesbian leaving or calling them out violence. Most would probably put a smile on their face, endure and then make their excuses to avoid a second date. The only danger the transbians are facing is not getting laid.

winterwillow · 2020-10-28T07:47:53+00:00

Referring to the whole 'people wanting bio children' reason for not dating trans people like the comic does, is dishonest. It feels like a situation that would occur mostly maybe 20-30 years ago, when the majority of transwomen were homosexual, and a reason why they couldn't find a long term relationship was because the (closeted?) men they were dating eventually wanted a family and biological children, something a trans woman, no matter how well they pass, can offer.

However, it's not passing homosexual transexuals writing these types of comics, and it's not straight men they're targeting, it's lgb men and women. It's basically a strawman argument, no gay person is turning down straight sex because 'no biological children', it doesn't make sense. It's just to make them seem more targeted/oppressed than they are.

winterwillow · 2020-10-18T16:13:43+00:00

So I'll do some math, according to this almost 25% (1 in 4) of gen z "identify" as lgbt or genderqueer, of which slightly less than 5% has a different gender identity than cis female/male (and not all of these are lgb). Since usually surveys estimate the lgb population around 3-6%, and trans 0,3-0,6% that means that out of 100 gen z:ers we should have maybe 5 lgb and half a transperson, instead we have 25 people 'identifying' as ~queer~ of which 5 some kind of trans. So the logical conclusion to this is that out of ~queer~ gen z:ers easily more than half, maybe even as high as 80% are heterosexual, claiming their place in the community due to gender expression, one gay make out session, or having a 'same-gender partner'. Not to be gate-keepy but no wonder the community is the way it is, the straight people are taking over.

winterwillow · 2020-08-20T11:42:52+00:00

Trans academia is wild. I spent a couple of hours reading abstracts some days ago, after someone had posted a link to the Journal of Lesbian Studies. One of the speakers at this event, Marquis Bey, (who is black and maybe trans?) seems to be doing their best at conflating the experience of being black with being trans in an article in Transgender Studies Quarterly (because even though they've colonized every other LGB journal, they still needed their own.)

From the abstract: "Manifesting in the modern world differently as race and gender fugitivity, black and trans, though pointed at by bodies that identify as black or trans, precede and provide the foundational condition for those fugitive identificatory demarcations. The author seeks to demonstrate the ways in which trans* is black and black is trans*."

So the idea that trans women and black women are both 'a different type of woman' doesn't seem to be a fringe belief, but a legitimate subject for an essay.

About this event, if they seriously can't answer this question. "Why have trans lives and identities become a politically potent rallying cry for people who seem not to care very much for trans people?" then I'm not sure a webinar will save them. They do know the answer of course, but it's appearently beneath them to consider the actual material reality of males in women's spaces, instead of 'gender fugitivity' and bodies-as-construct or whatever.

winterwillow · 2020-08-20T08:59:45+00:00

The reason was never that I actually thought I was a man, or that I believed I can change my sex. It was because I wanted to be free to be myself and to disappear. I wanted to be treated like a normal person, not an abnormal woman.

This was very insightful, thank you.

winterwillow · 2020-08-19T18:54:36+00:00

Yeah it's a very long thread to basically say 'homosexual rich white cis women = bad' 'queer working class wlw of color = good'. What actually happened is much less important than being as intersectional as possible.

winterwillow · 2020-08-13T17:15:54+00:00

Yes! I love her work. I copied 'Wild geese' into my journal, so good.

winterwillow · 2020-08-05T21:06:27+00:00

This person is a frequent poster on AL commenting about their struggles as "a lesbian family" and such. He posted on r/mtf about being irritated because one of his kids 'misgendering' him in public i e calling him daddy 3 months ago. Which kid, yeah this 5 year old.

I don't have a degree in child psychology but I would venture a guess that the kid notices all the changes, the irritation when he fails to call his dad 'mama' and now tries to please his dad by also 'becoming a girl' and perhaps regain some feeling of control or the world making sense. But of course for the trans parent it's 'innate gender identity' and let's change pronouns!

winterwillow · 2020-08-04T18:01:27+00:00

Not related to this post (although I agree with you on this woman's motivations) but I just wanted to thank you for your posts/comments on latebloomerlesbians. I'm not technically a 'late bloomer', I realized my attraction to women at 15 and have no sexual or even romantic experience with men whatsoever, but homophobia/dysfunctional childhood kept me thinking I was bi and that I would get to dating men 'later', while exclusively dating/being interested in women. I guess my definition of bisexual was, 'I'm like everybody else and also attracted to women', not me being actually attracted to women AND men. I just assumed I was somehow. I never thought about men, I moved in gay circles in lesbian relationships, called myself queer instead of bi if a label was needed, because bi made it sound like I was interested in men. It's almost funny to think about in retrospect, denial is a powerful thing.

Anyways, in the beginning of this year I began to realize that this 'later' and a straight life would never come for me. I was assaulted by a man a couple of years ago, and reading about lesbians on lbl who were in ok relationship with men just made me very confused and caused me to blame myself even more. That it was just trauma and I should get over it. If even lesbians could marry a man, stay with him and 'be normal', surely I would be able to, I wasn't even a lesbian!

I didn't relate at all the masterdoc's ideas that you brought up, that lesbian love was easier (lol no) or cool or wishing I was a lesbian. If anything I wished I was straight! I never looked at my best friend in high school and thought we could be together if she weren't a girl, I just fell madly in love with her and she strung me along for years just to tell me she 'wasn't that way'. I also found truelesbians thankfully, and have now accepted that I'm a lesbian and have avoided all possible romantic/sexual connections with men not because I'm obnoxious, traumatized or want to be special (open-minded as you say), but because I'm not attracted to men at all.

I realize I come from a different perspective than you do, but thought I'd share. I see how a sub/checklists like that can be helpful, but it harbours a lot of misrepresentation too. I feel like lbl makes being a lesbian a choice and not only that, but a better choice, and it actually made me feel guilty for making that 'choice' without ever trying a man.

Good luck with your mission!

winterwillow · 2020-07-23T16:28:17+00:00

Exactly! What you write made me think about what it means for lgb teens and lgb culture overall that gay teen fiction is written and consumed by bi/lesbian girls and most lesbian spaces are run by bi/trans girls like actual lesbians.

It was lonely growing up gay in a rural area, but I found 'my kind' trough fiction and media and in a way I'm strangely grateful that I managed to find a copy of Tipping the Velvet as a 17 year old, instead of a sub filled with aromantics, 'big tiddies', demi girls, sword lesbians and 'please remember some lesbians have dick'. Maybe not so strange many teen lesbians turn to fantasy boys instead.

winterwillow · 2020-07-23T13:05:56+00:00

🙌🙌🙌

winterwillow · 2020-07-16T17:49:23+00:00

Thank you, amazing comment! While there are similarities between gays and lesbians, there are also differences, because we are men and women. Gay men aren't feminists by default, and gay culture isn't lesbian culture by default either.

winterwillow · 2020-07-15T14:03:11+00:00

Yeah I couldn't decide which one was my favorite made-up word, "enbian" or "diamoric" .

winterwillow