DiscussionThoughts?

submitted by Mermer from reddit.com

all 11 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]reluctant_commenter 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Every person gets to define their identity however they want, and choose their own labels!"

"I get to call you cis, and you have no right to reject that label or to choose your own label."

Pick one. They're mutually exclusive. Believing both those statements is hypocritical to the max. "Rules for thee, and not for me"

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Considering how much homophobia comes after some queer asshole says "cis gay" or "cis lesbian" cis is at the very least an excuse used to be a bigoted asshole, if not an outright slur on its own.

[–]julesburm1891 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was an adventure in people that cannot see past the bridge of their noses. A few things:

  1. I’d love to watch their floundering if Rachael Dolezal, et al initiated a massive societal push to call people transracial and cisracial. Presumably, it’d be apoplectic. And maybe they’d finally see it’s an effort to other a group of people with real, lived experiences so a group of imposters can colonize their identity. (Which is how we’ve gotten to this peak insanity of “well some women have penises.”)

  2. Literally no one is asking to call transwomen as such and call women “normal women.” All of the pushback to “cis” is people asking to simply be called men or women. No one likes having a made up term suddenly applied to them for the purposes of point No. 1. But I doubt TRAs will have the intellectual wherewithal to realize the irony of demanding not to be mislabeled while attempting to force the general public to accept that very treatment.

  3. We give labels to things that are outside the normal range (e.g. mentally challenged and gifted). (Dear lord. Can you imagine having to describe yourself with all the conditions you aren’t? “Hi I’m Jules and I don’t have schizophrenia, diabetes, lymphoma, lupus, Marfan syndrome…”) Believing you are born in the wrong body falls outside the norm for roughly 99.4-ish% of humans. It’s going to get a special term.

  4. There was so much of “well cis people hate it because it puts us on the same level.” No. We hate it because it’s an attempt to drag us down and place yourselves above us in some weird hierarchy. Oh, and it’s pretty much always followed with a slur or something ugly. That’s why we hate it.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreeing to be called cis is a problem because it gives in to the premise that gender identity even exists in the first place.

[–]julesburm1891 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s like Muslims demanding non-Muslims call ourselves infidels and claiming we’re oppressing them if we don’t. If that’s what your religion wants to call me, fine. But, you can’t force me to use your religious lingo.

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans relates to having a gender identity, and the belief that biological sex has no relevance and instead only gender identity should be considered.

"Cis" is framed as counterpart to trans. Meaning, gender identity that supersedes biological sex. In reality, most non-trans people don't consider themselves in terms of gender identity. It would be more accurate to say that non-trans people do not have a gender identity. And for most, biological sex is absolutely relevant.

Putting the blanket term "cis" on all non-trans people implies that all people subscribe to gender ideology by default. This is not the case.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cis has become an insult. It's like being called heretic, infidel or goyim by religious people constantly with some bonus threats and insults on top (die cis scum, dirty cis gays).

I can't be a heretic if I don't believe in religion just like i can never be cis if i don't believe in gender ideology. It's just rude to keep using the word to label us like this.

[–]fuck_reddit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well considering the people who use it use it as an insult and everyone else just says “normal” or “biological,” I would say yes, it is a slur. It’s used to silence and demean people for their birth. As other people have said, ut is used to make other bigotry ok (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.). It’s flat despicable.

[–]HelloMomo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you take out the queer theory aspect, this is basically a conversation about endonyms (names people apply to themselves) vs exonyms (names others apply to them).

For example: Deutschland is an endonym. Germany is an exonym.

Exonyms aren't defacto offensive, but they're often considered less respectful than endonyms.

We're talking about a specific subset of exonyms here: words that don't refer to a specific group of people, but refer to everyone except us. It's not about what someone is, it's about what someone is not. Maybe there's a term for such words, but I can't think of it right now, so I'm gonna call it a "complement" (as in set theory). Examples of such words include: "gentile" (not Jewish), "gadjo" (not Romani), "hearing" (not Deaf). Hearing people tend not to call themselves hearing, or think of themselves as hearing. But it is a relevant term for deaf people to use among themselves. Arguably, "straight" is such a word too—I don't think most straight people really think of themselves as such, but it can be a useful term for us.

I think the real difference between cis and those words is that "cis" isn't defined as "not trans". It's defined as "identifying with your real sex and its gender stereotypes" or whatever. If it just meant "not trans" I wouldn't mind much.

Would they still use it derogatory in jokes sometimes? Yes. But I'll be the first to admit I've made a few jokes about straight people in my time, and it was just a joke, I didn't actually mean it.

What really bothers me about cis is that they presume to know how we think or understand ourselves, and refuse to listen when we say "actually no one thinks like that."

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Cis" almost always gets used in a way that is meant to signal that the person labeled as such should generally be disregarded. Which of course includes their thoughts about whether or not they want to be called "cis" in the first place.

He's just a privileged cis straight male, so what what does he know?

Cis women need to center trans women in feminism.

In fact, "cis" is often used instead of the word "privileged" as if "cis" already incorporates the idea of being "privileged." As such, it is very often used to invalidate the value of the perspective and experiences of gay people and negate the oppression points that in their "intersectional" worldview would ordinarily make someone's thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and experiences worthy of respect and consideration when talking about their own lives and issues that affect them.

Cis gay men are the straight males of the LGBTQ community.

Cis lesbians joking about lesbianism being the best form of birth control are punching down on trans lesbians.

Which is of course why "cis" lesbian, gay, and bisexual people cannot have their own spaces but "trans lesbians", "trans gay men," and "trans bisexuals" can and must have their own.

People who buy into the word "cis" for themselves apply it to themselves to signal their own self-subordination:

I know I'm only a cis lesbian, but . . .

The connotation is "I know under normal circumstances my thoughts are not worthy of consideration, but please make an exception for me this time because . . ." In reality, when we're tending to our real lives, actual LGB do not refer to ourselves as "cis." We just call ourselves lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals, and we know what that means and what that expressly does not include.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one has ever been beaten or murdered for being cis, so, no, absolutely not a slur. Sincerely, A cis person.

Woah there- Careful you don't blind someone with that scintillating virtue signaling, Oh Cis Knight. We're gonna need all our eyesight to set out on a holy pilgrimage to witness the promised monument to our trans(?) creators the True founders of Pride, Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera.