"I pressured my bisexual girlfriend until she told me she was lesbian! Hooray!" Uh, what?

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[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 31 insightful - 5 fun31 insightful - 4 fun32 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Also from the OP:

My gf told me she now realizes she was trying to “make lesbian love to men” (more sensual and intimate,lots of foreplay etc) and now realizes why she was never satisfied lol

Ugh. STOP.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, I was just about to quote that and point it out. As a man who loves sensual, intimate, and foreplay-filled sex, that is more than a bit insulting.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This post is suggesting that you can and should "convert" someone from one sexual orientation to another.

Aside from that messed-up component of the post-- I'm struggling to sort out the TQ logic in here.

  • One belief of gender identity ideology is that bisexuals are the "best" sexual orientation because "bisexuals don't fetishize genitals" (ugh, so many things wrong with that statement but we'll ignore that for a sec).

  • However, this post seems to be suggesting that lesbian is better than bisexual because "lesbian is more queer," which supports the "bisexuals' same-sex attraction is lesser than lesbians'/gay men's same-sex attraction" stereotype.

I guess AL can't decide whether bisexuals or lesbians get more "oppression points". I wish people would stop framing this as a competition, and respect that the two groups have different lived experiences. However-- many people on AL are fetishists (AGP males) or TRAs who are likely not lesbian or bisexual, so it's not like they would know...

edit: clarity

[–]diapason 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One belief of gender identity ideology is that bisexuals are the "best" sexual orientation because "bisexuals don't fetishize genitals" (ugh, so many things wrong with that statement but we'll ignore that for a sec). However, this post seems to be suggesting that lesbian is better than bisexual because "lesbian is more queer," which supports the "bisexuals' same-sex attraction is lesser than lesbians'/gay men's same-sex attraction" stereotype.

They like "lesbians" who are actually bisexual (into women and transwomen) and seem to tolerate "bisexuals" who are actually lesbians (into women and transmen). I don't think it's the whole Opression Olympics thing for why they prefer "lesbians", I think it's just that they treat sexual orientations as lifestyles and LGB 'identities' as being like a club for cool people rather than only being descriptors of someone's natural sexual orientation. Being straight isn't a sexual orientation to them, it's a boring lifestyle choice (and therefore to be dreaded because they have the maturity of a goldfish), which is how they end up criticizing someone like Pete Buttigieg for not being "queer enough" and suggesting that somehow, despite being married to a man, he's basically heterosexual. They also think of "lesbian" or "gay" as being lifestyles rather than descriptors of sexual orientation, which is how r/AL comes up with the "uwu sapphic love" crap. So, to them, a "lesbian" 'identity' is cooler than a "bisexual" one, and they all want in to the "lesbian" club whether they actually belong or not (their natal sex or innate sexual orientation be damned)

(Obviously that's aside from all the male fetishists on that sub who call themselves lesbians for fetishistic reasons)

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with your breakdown. And people thinking Buttigieg is heterosexual ("not queer enough") is the height of comedy... 2020 in a nutshell.

I don't think it's the whole Opression Olympics thing for why they prefer "lesbians"

I have actually seen some people make this argument online-- AL, tumblr, twitter. Especially AGP transwomen who are like "I'm a lesbian and the r/lesbians sub oppresses me because it fetishizes lesbians..." lol. The irony.

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The what?

[–]EzukiRaen 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I skimmed through some of the OP's comments and I'm not convinced that this post was made to be taken seriously. I think it's just a dumb joke. She even says at some point that she knows you can't convert anyone/change anyone's sexuality. I think it was just a silly thought that came to her head after a conversation she had with her girlfriend.

I do think the post could be funny and light-hearted or harmful and tasteless depending on the context of where it's posted/the audience viewing it. I think the main reason why I would personally consider it tasteless is because of the fact that the post was made on AL. They have a very bad, yet entirely deserved, reputation for being homophobic. I think I'm less concerned about the OP than I am about the way this may be received by the AL audience. Based off of their reputation and past actions I do think it's fair to assume that a large chunk of their audience are impressionable young people. I also think it's fair to assume that a lot of their members, specifically those who actively view their content, think it's acceptable to "convert" people (and by this I mean both with regards to one's sexuality and by pressuring people into thinking they're trans) and they may very well see this post as a reinforcement to that idea.

It's very difficult to try and reconcile the discrepancies between what people who follow QT say vs what they mean. Their entire ideology is built off of lies and contradictions. It's based off of how people feel and not really about what people think. I'm not sure if it's even possible for anyone to actually, fully understand QT because words and concepts aren't static to them. They're dynamic in the sense that they're entirely based off of an individual's interpretation and understanding of it. QT may have started out with good intentions but, as the saying goes: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[–]HelloMomo 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. As Discourse™ it's iffy, but as like a joke amongst friends I think it's pretty innocuous. Cause like... some lesbians do think they're bisexual for a time, before realizing they're not actually. I think everyone knows a friend like that.

[–]shveya 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Based on the post history, they might be an actual woman (but they're in Canada, so who knows lo). I think you're right about them joking around though.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I skimmed through some of the OP's comments and I'm not convinced that this post was made to be taken seriously. I think it's just a dumb joke. 

"It was just a joke, guys! Don't get mad at me!" She may actually have been just joking but I have seen this kind of backtracking a lot on AL, so who knows.

I also think it's fair to assume that a lot of their members, specifically those who actively view their content, think it's acceptable to "convert" people (and by this I mean both with regards to one's sexuality and by pressuring people into thinking they're trans) and they may very well see this post as a reinforcement to that idea.

Yes, exactly. Even if the person who made a joke was "just joking," most people on AL are not... Among my generation (border of gen Z/millenial), the message that that sexual orientation can easily change is super common. I've had multiple people tell me so in-person. And posts like THIS are exactly the sort of encouragement that reinforce that idea.

Besides, this is how she uses the word "lesbian". No wonder she made a meme about converting her gf to being lesbian:

My gf told me she now realizes she was trying to “make lesbian love to men” (more sensual and intimate,lots of foreplay etc) and now realizes why she was never satisfied lol

The best case scenario is that OP is just being thoughtless-- and sure, I'm willing to believe that possibility as one among several. But bottomline, her comments are harmful and perpetuate extremely damaging stereotypes ("lesbians are predatory/want to convert other women") and I am not going to give someone a pass for their behavior even if it was intended to be a "silly joke".

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also from the OP (meaning, this post is misinterpreting what she intended on that post, just like some of those who responded over there did—not necessarily anyone's fault, but nonetheless):

Just a joke for sure :) I really don’t care if women identify as bi or gay and I don’t think you can turn people any which way. I’m just happy to be along for the ride with her

https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallesbians/comments/kalopg/im_the_first_girl_my_bisexual_girlfriend_has/gfei3zi/

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw that she said that. However, 1. even if she does not believe that, she still made a post about it and amplified a message that many people on AL do believe; 2. I am inclined to wonder whether she was like "just a joke guys!" only after some people pushed back against it, because I have seen people do that on AL a lot.