Elliot Page and Emma Portner Announce Plans to Divorce After 3 Years of Marriage: We 'Remain Close Friends'

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[–]Femaleisnthateful 34 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The divorce isn't shocking to me, but I'm very curious (and concerned) about what's going on in the-person-formerly-known-as-Ellen-Page's head. She seems to be outsourcing her identity to various people and lobby groups, and seems to have a very weak sense of self.

It's amusing - and peaking - to see news media refer to her with male pronouns whilst all their pictures and videos clearly show a female.

Also, I believe the People article is factually incorrect. Page never came out explicitly as a 'man' - only as 'trans'. Page is using anything-but-a-woman identifiers but has never claimed a particular gender identity.

[–]grixit 16 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

There are organizations in my city that are now using the terms SIF (self identified female) and OSIF (other than self identified female) as categories for candidates for administrative positions.

[–]hfxB0oyA 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

to see news media refer to her with male pronouns whilst all their pictures and videos clearly show a female.

It's funny how much we hear about girldick but nothing at all about boyvag.

Also, I'm pretty sure she said her pronouns are now 'he/them", so in a non-upside-down world, it would be pretty safe to assume that she identified as a guy.

[–]Finnegan7921 26 insightful - 4 fun26 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Shocking. How long until she goes back to being Ellen ?

[–]Jazman1867 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

I would guess either never or not for a very long time as doing so would end her career at this point. Can't play the woke card and then take it back.

[–]Finnegan7921 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Oh, sure she can, almost all is forgiven when you're on the right team. "life is a complex journey" "finding your true self is never easy..." etc.

[–]VioletRemi 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Most likely she will do, but without announcing, some time later.

[–]hfxB0oyA 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sure we're not far from the point where the beautiful people will accept "I'm a man who now identifies as a trans-woman" from her, thereby making her 2x stunning and 2x brave.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

She is going to do it when being queer/trans/NB won' t be as profitable as it is now in show business/Hollywood. Right now, every fart she makes she is showered with brave and stunning praise, when that starts going down she will begin to complain that focus on trans people is important. Once she and her "identity" will be ignored for the most part, she will start whining that transphobia has come back full force.

Given that I am 100% sure that she is being monotematic even now and speaks of nothing besides trans issues with her colleagues, and that she will keep being it, at that point she will have alienated and/or insulted and/or bored to death anyone around her, so, if she' s smart, she will realize that the only thing to do is either disappear or try the last attempt at saving her career by going "I decided to uncouple from my masculine gender identity" or whatever the quirky way to say will be used at the time.

It won' t be hard to detransition given that I don' t believe she will do much more than cut her hair and start wearing baggy clothes, so physically she won' t have problems. That she succeeds in getting back some career it' s another thing entirely. Even now she is destined to only play TIFs before/during/after transitioning, and for as long as the fad goes on, whatever character she plays it will be 100% on that.

[–]hfxB0oyA 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Didn't see that coming from a mile away. The "I'm a boy" thing reeked of a person disconnected from reality and trying to save her marriage. Within 4 months she'll have quietly gone back to being a plain boring ol' lesbian / washed up child actor.

[–]VioletRemi 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

After marriage Ellen became so depressed, and Emma was active pro-trans activist. I hope Page will recover from it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 5 fun -  (19 children)

If El's wife is the big TRA here, why wasn't she the one to go trans? Or why didn't the two of them go trans together - so they could pretend to be two married gay men?

These are genuine questions. I don't have the background on this couple that others here seem privy to. But it seems to be commonly assumed that El went trans due to coercion, pressure or perhaps worse from El's wife. Which portrays El as an entirely innocent victim and El's wife as the guilty, nefarious villain who took advantage of El.

But is it really that black and white? I'd think that El's status as a Hollywood star who, compared to her wife, was always the one with far greater wealth, earning potential, name-recognition, institutional support (from agents, managers, studio execs, PR teams, attorneys and so on), that El would have at least equal standing in their relationship. Also, El is older by 7 or so years. At the time of their marriage, El was already 30 or more, whereas El's wife was only 23 or thereabouts.

My post illustrates that these two were not on equal footing. Here I am as a member of the general public referring to El's wife as El's wife - coz without her name being stated in the thread title, I'd have no idea what it is. All I've heard previously is that she's a choreographer-dancer who once did something in or for a Justin Bieber video. That's her main claim to fame outside her marriage - not enough to make her a household name. Whereas Page is a household name.

[–]yousaythosethings 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Emma gives off serious “Gone Girl” vibes. Both a quick and deep peruse show that every photo of them together involves Page looking lovingly and submissively toward Emma and searching for her approval while Emma shows coldness, disinterest, and smugness. Page started undergoing a clear rapid decline since they got together. And in this sense, Emma’s lack of public profile would work in her favor. For example, I don’t believe there is evidence that Emma had a prior history with women. If this is the case it provides an explanation for Page seeking to identify out of womanhood.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Emma gives off serious “Gone Girl” vibes.

Emma must be the villain coz she has "bad vibes"? Really?

Both a quick and deep peruse show that every photo of them together involves Page looking lovingly and submissively toward Emma and searching for her approval while Emma shows coldness, disinterest, and smugness.

I just did Google image searches under both their names individually and together. Saw nothing like this. On the contrary, saw tons of pics of the two smooching, smiling (or mugging for the camera) cheek to cheek, with arms draped around one another.

I admit, Emma isn't nearly as photogenic as El. Emma's strong facial structure is such that her "resting face" looks stern and forbidding, whereas El's delicate beauty is conventionally "feminine" and makes her naturally look more appealing and approachable. Also, Emma is much taller and far bigger boned than El and seems less graceful; I know Emma's a dancer, but in still photos she often looks stiff and ungainly and like she's not at all at ease. This is particularly true when posing with El for photos on the red carpet - in those sorts of shots, Emma often looks uncomfortable and tense, whereas El is not just relaxed, she's "all lit up" with her high-wattage star power turned on high.

This makes sense given that El has spent her entire life in front of cameras. El grew up having her image and look carefully shaped and highly curated and by an army of stylists, hairdressers, makeup artists and "image consultants;" she's been taught all the tricks of how to be photographed not just so she looks good, but also so comes off as nice; and she's comfortable being the center of attention and fawned over at publicity events and shoots coz all that stuff is part and parcel of her job.

I don’t believe there is evidence that Emma had a prior history with women. If this is the case it provides an explanation for Page seeking to identify out of womanhood.

So people's sexual orientation is only "valid" and can be presumed real when they provide strangers with documented "evidence" of it? Even today in the (new) era of social media when it's become all too common for people to post the details of their personal lives and everything they do online, many people still prefer to keep their private lives, well, private - and they do so.

Also, Emma was 23 when she and El married, probably younger when they first started dating. A lot of lesbians take a while to come out to themselves and to others - I know many who didn't come out until their mid 20s or even much later. El Page herself didn't come out as a lesbian until she was 27. What's more, prior to announcing that she's a lesbian, Page sure gave the world plenty of "evidence" that she was straight or bisexual by being very public about all the high-profile men she dated... So why the double standard?

You are blaming the mental health crisis and internalized misogyny of a full-grown woman soon to turn 34 entirely on the younger woman she has been involved with/married to for a tenth of her life or less. I have no idea what's occasioned El Page's evident mental health crisis, or what went on in her relationship with Emma Porter. But I do know enough about the etiology of mental illness, low self-esteem and internalized misogyny as well as what happens between married couples to be confident that the situation is not quite as simple as you're portraying it. It's not fair - nor is it feminist - to assume that when a relationship between two women breaks down, one is an evil villain whose "bad vibes" mean that whatever happened must be all her fault and only her fault, and the other woman is a pure, entirely innocent victim who couldn't have contributed to the couple's problems coz she's incapable of ever doing any wrong - and she presumably entered the relationship without any baggage or pre-existing issues of her own.

Finally, isn't the overarching message of "Gone Girl" that people aren't necessarily who they appear to be in the public eye, and no one outside a married couple's relationship can truly know - or even have an idea - what goes on between the two partners behind closed doors?

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Again, another hard disagree with you though I don’t know what I expected. So much in your response that you can’t seriously think I actually believe based on my prolific posting about my own experiences, particularly with regard to my sexual orientation. But you clearly want yet another opportunity to unconvincingly explain why your assumptions having entered a discussion at the 11th hour are more sound than those closer to the subject.

I got out some quick thoughts I had on the subject because that’s all the time I had to offer to this topic given my interest level and time. I won’t bother with you next time. If you are genuinely curious about analysis from other people who have followed Page’s career for a long time, there’s plenty of it out there, particularly from the perspective of lesbians familiar with her career and the shit she’s been given in the media for being gay, and no, it is not uncritical of her.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

If you are genuinely curious about analysis from other people who have followed Page’s career for a long time, there’s plenty of it out there, particularly from the perspective of lesbians familiar with her career and the shit she’s been given in the media for being gay, and no, it is not uncritical of her.

I really am genuinely curious. So are many lesbians circa my age I know who have retired from the political scene and whom I am trying to get to engage again. So if you could provide links, we'd appreciate it.

you can’t seriously think I actually believe based on my prolific posting about my own experiences, particularly with regard to my sexual orientation.

I am truly, genuinely sorry, but I do not take much notice of people's user names, posting history, personal experiences or sexual orientation. I respond to posts and the views, ideas and evidence provided in said posts.

Part of the reason is that anyone can change his or her user name and profile at any time.

Another part of the reason is that I grew up and was educated in an era when everyone was taught to argue points and ideas - not persons, personalities, personal experiences, sexual orientations or "identities."

But you clearly want yet another opportunity to unconvincingly explain why your assumptions having entered a discussion at the 11th hour are more sound than those closer to the subject.

Huh? I've been reading about, discussing and fighting for lesbian and gay rights since the 1960s. As a teenager, I carefully followed the evolution of women who came into their feminism and lesbianism very painfully, such as Village Voice writer Jill Johnston whose large-type front-page headline from 1971 still stirs my heart as it did when I was a teen: Lois Lane Is A Lesbian. I grew up with great aunts and aunts on both sides of my family who were "spinsters" in "Boston marriages," and "adopted uncles" who were "bachelors" said "not to be the marrying kind." I was in the trenches during the AIDS crisis of the 80s and 90s. When I got married to a man in 1990, all my "attendants" in my wedding party were lesbians and gay men.

If anyone has "entered a discussion at the 11th hour" it just might well be you.

[–]Elvira95 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

She had not previous female relationship, but she look more like a lesbian than Ellen, stereotypically speaking, she's pretty mainly lol

[–]VioletRemi 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You mean that stereotype of "pretty woman can't be lesbian, only butch woman or fat woman can" ?

[–]Elvira95 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean the stereotype of masculine woman

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

She had not previous female relationship, but she look more like a lesbian than Ellen, stereotypically speaking, she's pretty mainly lol

Elvira95, that's a pretty offensive statement.

[–]Elvira95 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There is nothing offensive in saying someone is masculine, Mark

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

No, there's nothing offensive about saying someone - male or female - is "masculine." What in my opinion is offensive is saying "stereotypically speaking" that a woman you think looks "pretty manly" is more likely to be a lesbian than not.

I know many women who are lesbians whom others consider very "feminine" in appearance. And I know many women of all sexual orientations - straight, bi, lesbian - who are considered by some/many others to be "masculine." By today's regressive sexist standards, most of the "1950s housewives" who birthed and raised women of my generation would be considered much more "masculine" than "feminine."

Some women will be seen by others as either "masculine" or "feminine" by their culture's and generation's standards and definition of these terms throughout their lives. But how these women are or will be perceived by others is not necessarily indicative of the women's sexual orientations.

At the same time, amongst women who are fortunate enough to live a full lifespan (mid-80s to 90s), many will be regarded by others as both "feminine" and "masculine" at different points in life. Fact is, even women who appeared "feminine" from girlhood into their 50s commonly find that during and after menopause they'll often be seen by others as "masculine." And the more elderly women get, the more commonplace it is for us to be perceived by others as "manly."

Many older women whose looks have become naturally "masculinized" due to the aging process are presumed by others to be lesbians as a result - and these presumptions are made by other people of all sexualities. This sort of sexist stereotyping is not helpful to anyone.

I think it's time for all of us to stop assuming that because a person looks a certain way, that it's indicative of - or a tell of - the person's sexual orientation.

[–]Elvira95 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a lesbian, and I'm not mainly. I was just saying her wife fit more the stereotype than Ellen. Of course stereotype don't represent reality

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My point is not that I think Emma may not be a lesbian because she had no prior relationship with a female. After all, I’m a late-starting lesbian who hasn’t been into relationships myself. But rather that the the lack of known dating history for her given the other indicators including the cold dynamic toward Page, could be indicia that’s she’s not homosexual.

[–]PassionateIntensity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think Emma IDed as a lesbian. I think she was calling herself genderqueer and fluid or something. It can mess with your head when you aren't sure your partner is really into you, especially as a lonely low self-esteem lesbian (see, Noelle Stevenson, her wife, her wife's affairs and Noelle's current situation).

[–]SilenceThem_Consume 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm calling her as an mtf.

https://people.com/movies/elliot-page-and-estranged-wife-emma-portner-separated-months-before-announcing-plans-to-divorce/

[–]VioletRemi 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Emma was very controlling in their relationship, as Ellen was doing what she normaly will not, and Emma was reposting her and bragging (many posts are being deleted now, Ellen deleted Instagram posts of their marriage, Emma did not, at least yesterday it was like that). I thought they would divorce in 2018 or 2019, Emma was always so cold with Ellen, while Ellen was very cherishing and supportive. Ellen started being TRA as well after marriage with Emma - she condemned lesbian club for not allowing transwoman in there, and Emma instantly reposted it in Instagram, saying how cool her wife Ellen is. After marriage Ellen had very fast decline in her mood, became suicidal and started having mental issues. Most likely Emma got some troubles from this too, but most likely it was Emma who made Ellen like this. Ellen as well tried to save their marriage before summer 2020 (I wonder if transing to "anything but woman" was part of it too, or she just completely went bonkers?). We can't know for sure, tho, I am only judging by what I've seen and noticed. I liked Ellen openness (or well, she became very closed after marriage) and her example for young lesbians, so was watching news about her.

There no history of Emma with other women before Page as well, and she said few times that she is "fluid sexuality" - whatever that means (I suppose bisexual?), so it is weird thing as well.

It is Ellen who filed the divorce and who wanted to break out starting from summer 2020. Emma is challenging divorce as well, like most abusive partners do, but maybe she just challenges to get her part of joint property, dunno.

not equal footing

No money can save you from abusive relationship.

Only thing that is not equal now is that Emma is being harassed from both lesbians and TRA - one for ruining Ellen, other for "breaking up with trans right after coming out".

So in the end, most likely Emma got hurt as well, but I am seeing Ellen more of a victim than her. Especially considering big push on transing of gnc or butch lesbians in society (especially in Canada from where they are from).

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for proving more information.

It is Ellen who filed the divorce and who wanted to break out starting from summer 2020.

Just to clarify: you can't read much into who filed for the divorce. It's very common for one person to initiate discussions of divorce with their partner, and perhaps to seek out legal advice, and then for the other partner to leap ahead and file with the court first. Sometimes it's for retaliation, a way of getting the upper hand or throwing the other person off balance. Whatever the specific reasons in any particular case, it happens all the time.

In the case of couples where one partner is rich and/or famous and the other is not, it's very common for the wealthy, more connected partner to file papers first. Rich people usually have lawyers already, and know their way around the legal system. A big Hollywood star such as El Page will already have a lawyer on retainer and on call - as well as a team of managers, agents etc - and they in turn all will have top divorce lawyers on speed dial. Divorce lawyers will make time to see a client like Page the same day she reaches out - usually within a couple of hours, sometimes immediately.

In fact, wealthy people and Hollywood stars often already consulted a divorce lawyers prior to marriage in order to inquire about, or have them draw up, pre-nups. What's more, in such situations, it's very common for the attorneys to draw up divorce papers ahead of time and keep them on file so that if/when their wealthy clients' marriages start to sour, they won't have to scurry to put the papers together and they'll be able to file with the court pronto.

By contrast, someone in Porter's position probably doesn't have a lawyer on retainer already, and when she contacts divorce lawyers she will have to wait for an appointment in due course like the rest of the hoi polloi. There might be a couple of lawyers that would see Porter right away coz of the fame and wealth of Porter's partner, but lawyers like that are publicity hounds seeking to increase their own profile, not to do what's best for their clients, so most people would steer clear of them.

Emma is challenging divorce as well, like most abusive partners do, but maybe she just challenges to get her part of joint property, dunno.

Contesting a divorce is not indicative of being "abusive." At all. Nor is it necessarily indicative of being out for money. If this couple does have joint property, each woman is entitled to her fair share.

The legal system in the US is adversarial - and divorce in NY state, where Page filed, is especially so. (I've followed many NY state divorces, and got divorced in NY state myself, so I can attest to this.) If one person files for divorce, and the other person wants a say in the terms under which the marriage will be dissolved; how the couple's home(s), property, personal possessions will be divided; who will get custody of children and pets and under what rules; and what rules and restrictions - if any - will govern what each party can say about the other and their relationship in the future; then the only option of the person who didn't file first is to contest the divorce. Otherwise, she ends up tacitly agreeing to all the terms set forth by the partner who filed first - which will favor the filing partner, usually in extreme ways (coz when people file for divorce, they usually make a large number of unreasonable demands so that they'll have room to move towards more reasonable middle ground terms during the negotiations).

After marriage Ellen had very fast decline in her mood, became suicidal and started having mental issues. Most likely Emma got some troubles from this too, but most likely it was Emma who made Ellen like this.

But maybe Ellen was already on the precipice, or in the midst, of a mental health crisis at the time she got married. Maybe she jumped into a marriage coz she hoped it would solve all her problems and make herself feel better. Lots of people do that.

The fact that El Page's decline in mood and mental health became apparent "very fast" after her marriage suggests to me her psychological issues were already ongoing prior to the marriage. Perhaps marriage - and the inevitable letdown that occurs after the honeymoon period is over - precipitated her crack-up. But that doesn't mean the marriage caused it. Correlation and causation are two different things.

most likely it was Emma who made Ellen like this

Sorry, I don't think this is how mental illness and "identity crises" work. Even if El Page was entirely mentally healthy and happy at the time of her marriage and evil Emma set out to cause Ellen to crack up by forcing or encouraging her develop internal misogyny and distress and denial over her own sex, wouldn't it have taken Emma some time to pull this off instead of Ellen mentally falling apart "very fast" as you say? After all, in the movie "Gaslight," it takes Charles Boyer a fair bit of time to drive Ingrid Bergman mad.

There no history of Emma with other women before Page as well, and she said few times that she is "fluid sexuality" - whatever that means (I suppose bisexual?), so it is weird thing as well.

I still don't get the double standard here. Yes, Ellen Page publicly dated a number of high-profile women before Porter. But prior to dating women, she dated men for many years: Emile Hirsch, Mark Rendall, Frankie Muniz, Ben Foster, Sam Riley, Alexander Skarsgård. Apparently she had real relationships with some, perhaps all, of these guys - these weren't faux relationships just for show. So why is it only Emma Porter's dating history the one that counts? Why does Porter's supposed statements in the past that she's "fluid" make her "weird" and indicate she's not a "real" lesbian, but Page's actions in the past when she dated a number of men mean her lesbian credentials are unassailable?

Again, thanks for providing more background info.

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But prior to dating women, she dated men for many years: Emile Hirsch, Mark Rendall, Frankie Muniz, Ben Foster, Sam Riley, Alexander Skarsgård

Where did you got this? It always were only rumors that she is dating men from movies she was staring in (especially if they had romantic scenes in movies), because she was always hugging everyone and spending time with them after filming - with both men and women, but speculations were mostly only about men (as she was lonely and never seen dating men, so everyone was shipping her). One of them, I forgot, even wrote in Twitter "I knew she was a lesbian, and she is showing great example for other people by coming out" after she came out as lesbian. With Rendall she is long time friend since childhood, and I think he is the only one from them she tried to actually date. Only kisses spotted I know were all with females, but maybe I have missed something. I was married to a man for almost two years in tries to "become straight or bisexual", so that is not really showing much too. In general it does not matter much, but we know that she is either lesbian or maybe bisexual, while about Emma we only know that she "is fluid" (and I hope she is at least bisexual and not straight, as I dated and even slept with one "political lesbian" and one "fluid" - both of whom were heterosexual, but one was "manhater" and other "woke", it was horrible experience, and considering Ellen fighting lesbophobia and being sad about it - such woman could completely break her). And there is huge problem with straight or bisexual male-leaning women calling themselves lesbians because of woke ideology or to "hook up and get orgasms, as sex with men is bad" between dating men, or sometimes to make their men fantasize about such - and in last years this problem is raising (especially with things like "bisexual couple M+F is searching lesbian for a wife for threesome" in dating apps).

Lets not forget that in Hollywood when you are coming out as lesbian (or gay man), you will instantly lose a lot of roles. So that could be important there too.

In general, your points are decent and I can somewhat agree, but I was around 23-25, when tried to "maybe becoming a man will end homophobia and harassment" (I was fired from a job for being lesbian, I had issues with getting a job because I had "men's speciality" in engineering and software engineering and my resume were declined until I started signing them with male name, was beaten down and almost correctively raped, - I hated being woman and being lesbian), it was long before this trans craziness started (and I am grateful it was, because otherwise I'd most likely ruined my body). And if I married TRA and "fluid", I would most likely only got worse and worse for sure. Supportive woman pulled me out of misery and made me happy person I am now (plus homophobia went much more down and on jobs lesbians are even prefered as "most likely no maternity leave"). Age isn't adding much wisdom to some people like myself :D

...that was kinda random exchange.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

VioletRemi, I am sorry for all the pain you've been through. I wish all the best, I really do.

I am frustrated by the hue and cry over El Page and her being characterized as the total victim of her totally evil partner coz I think Emma P is being demonized in a weirdly sexist way. I'd prefer to see no woman is demonized.

Young lesbians demonizing a woman for not being sufficiently lesbian is not in my view - or the view of many of my lesbian friends of older generations - a good look or a good sign. What ever happened to giving people and especially other women the benefit of the doubt - and to giving young people, again especially women, the chance to come into their own? After all, Emma Porter today is younger than El Page was when Page came out. So why the double standard? It seems to me the rich and famous Hollywood star is being judged by one set of criteria, and the not rich or famous partner is being held to a different - and much higher - set of criteria.

I also don't think it's really a step forward for some young lesbians to rush to judgment and blame all the mental health problems and internalized misogyny displayed by their fave Hollywood celebrity lesbian on the celeb lesbian's female partner/spouse.

As Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn pointed out a half century ago, there are no human beings who are all good or all evil: the capacity for good and evil runs through the heart of every human being.

I am also frustrated over the El Page Pure Victim/ Emma Porter Pure Villain black and white binary and the idea that as a lesbian in the 21st century El Page faced insurmountable odds coz as an older woman, I see enormous differences between the animus and discrimination that lesbians and gay men faced in the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 80s and what is going on today.

So much of the homophobia, lesbophobia, sexism and rigid sex stereotyping that is causing younger generations so many problems seems to be coming from younger people themselves/yourselves - not from us older folks. In other words, it seems often to be peer-to-peer prejudice. Not just prejudice that us awful, bigoted oldsters are imposing on younger people.

But it's best I leave this convo. The perspective I try to add seems only to be interpreted in a negative light.

Again, I am sorry for all the hurt and difficulty you've experienced in your life coz of your sexual orientation. Even though I didn't suffer lesbophobia earlier in my life, I've been through a lot of pain, hardship, sexist treatment, sex discrimination and sexual harassment over the course of my too. I've also been raped, and sexually assaulted in a number of other ways. I know full well, as most women regardless of our sexual orientation do, what it's like to be a teen girl/young woman full of hatred and loathing for our female bodies. And now that I'm an older woman, I'm getting to experience a whole new set of problems - ranging from new forms of body discomfort/loathing from within my own psyche to animus from and discrimination by others.

[–]WildApples 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"I can't begin to express how remarkable it feels to finally love who I am enough to pursue my authentic self. I've been endlessly inspired by so many in the trans community," he [Page] said.

This just makes me so sad. When did loving yourself mean rejecting a significant aspect of yourself? How are you being your authentic self when you are engaging in such self-denial? It does not compute.

[–]spinell 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

She will always be Ellen to me.♥️

[–]bluetinfoilhat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Another trans widow.