SNL just called out JKR for a 2nd time and more undercutting of white women - 3rd week in a row

submitted by Anon123 from (self.GenderCritical)

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]lefterfield 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

It also happens a lot that black men fetishize and use white women for sex.

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (40 children)

I think of you want to have that particular discussion you should look into researching it more. You can call it mutually exploitative or try to deflect all you want but there’s literal slave mentality psychology behind why black men allow themselves to be fetishized by white women. Which is why I said if you’re not black maybe don’t try to have that discussion as I highly doubt you’re well informed on it. These types of subjects are why a lot of woc acknowledge the difference between feminism and white feminism. (This is not to say that white women are all people who only engage in “white feminism” it’s saying that a lot of them don’t seem to be able to acknowledge racial issues like this- and I’m not particularly interested in having this discussion with someone who coming from a POV where you don’t seem to want to understand from a black perspective)

[–]lefterfield 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Ok, but... this seems to imply that I can't have this discussion as a white woman either, from my perspective. Even though I've been in this exact situation. I'd love to have the conversation in reverse, but apparently we can't and I can't talk about my experiences? Then I guess there's no discussion to be had.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The thing is tho, why does this conversation have to be had in reverse? Particularly before we even had any conversation in the direction it started? That’s the type of stuff woc mean when we talk about “white feminism”. You don’t have to flip everything to make it about you and how you’re also a victim.

The discussion was “black men being fetishized by white women”. I say, “this oppressed group is fetishized by some of the people who oppress them” you say “sOMe oF tHe oPreSsEd pEopLe Do iT toO!!!” I never said they didn’t. I also, unlike you, understand why and understand that racism contributes to why some black men “do it too.” I’m not excusing them. They aren’t fetishizing you because they think you have a tighter vagina or because they think you’ll love them better- they do it because of the dynamics between white and black people, and being with a white woman can feel like approval or acceptance. It can feel like status. It can stem from self hatred. Because they’ve been taughtthat white women are the standard for women and that black women are too strong or less feminine. There’s so much behind it that you don’t seem to acknowledge. Is this true for white Women fetishizing black men? Or do they just think black men have big dicks and lots of stamina? Do you really not understand the difference? Like- my whole point is you’re calling out snl for mentioning something that actually does happen and your post came across as if you don’t think it does happen, or that it should be okay or not called out because females as a sex are oppressed. my point -my only point- is that black men being fetishized by white women is a thing that happens and it’s worth calling out when it does. You can absolutely talk about your experiences- your experience is not that of a black man being fetishized by a white woman so it wouldn’t have been relevant to what I was talking about. So, unless you’ve been either the black man being fetishized or the white woman fetishizing him, you haven’t been in this exact situation. So why the need to immediately reverse the conversation to the white woman being the victim of fetishizing? Why not actually address what I said? This is a thing that happens, it’s a thing that causes issues in my community, it’s a thing that contributes to racism and has an impact on dynamics between black men and black women and I’m glad that the white women who fetishize black men are being called out. There are repercussions and side effects of this fetish for black people of both sexes, are there for white people? What are they?

[–]lefterfield 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

First of all, this isn't my post. Second, I did acknowledge that what you said was happening by the use of the word 'also.' But knowing what I do of both men and women, and that the VAST majority of fetishistic behavior comes from men, I'm skeptical that it's more common for white women to fetishize black men than vice versa. As far as this skit, I don't understand it at all or why it's even supposed to be funny. I'm not sure I get it well enough to even call it out as offensive to white women... so all I did say was in response to you.

are there for white people?

I mean, rape. That's a thing that happens to white women that are fetishized by black men. It's not simple at all to say that white women oppress black men in all contexts. Black men are still men, white women are still women.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I’m sorry- are you saying that black men who fetishize white women are rapists? Are you saying that white women are usually raped by black men (who fetishize them)? Or are you saying that just as some white men rape women, some black men do? Because two of those would be racist to say and the other is irrelevant to what we are discussing. Some men rape women. Yes. Can you explain how black men fetishizing white women leads to this, directly? Can you link something showing us that black men who fetishize white women tend to rape them? Or are you throwing rape out there because you have no answer to the question I asked? I asked you how black men fetishizing white Women impacts the white community. I gave you examples (that I can expand upon if you still don’t get it) of how it impacts the black community, you... mentioned rape. That’s not an answer to what I asked. That’s you mentioning rape when I ask about something else entirely.

I understand that black men are still men, and a man of any race can be violent. I understand that white women are still women, and that they can be victims. I don’t really get how either of those truths has anything to do with that we are discussing, unless you think that black men are more likely to rape white women. Which, as far as I know, is not a thing.

[–]lefterfield 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Men are sometimes rapists. That's all I'm saying. If you want to get into more examples of how this fetishizing harms white women - the pressure to participate in racial porn. Being used for their appearance/race and being treated as an object to be acquired rather than a person. Same way that patriarchy harms all women. Stop firing off multiple questions when one would suffice, please.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

“Men are sometimes rapists.”

Of course. What does this have to do with the conversation we are having or the question I asked you?

“That's all I'm saying.”

Why are you saying it when we are talking about black men/white women fetishizing each other?

“If you want to get into more examples of how this fetishizing harms white women”

This wasn’t an example to begin with but go off

“the pressure to participate in racial porn.“

Are they pressured? Because before it was stated that they were encouraged not to. The whole reason “bbc” is a thing is because of th black man’s race- not the white woman. They do this with Asian and Latina porn actresses to. The fetish is still on the black man, not the women.

“Being used for their appearance/race and being treated as an object to be acquired rather than a person.”

I’m sorry- if the porn genre is “bbc” it sounds like the object to be acquired is the “bbc”. Which is attached to the black man, not the women. So in your example it’s the man’s race being exploited.

“Same way that patriarchy harms all women.”

As I said, you can be a victim of patriarchy and still be privileged because of your race. They are not mutually exclusive situations.

“Stop firing off multiple questions when one would suffice, please”

If you can’t keep up with the conversation you are obviously more than free to end it. It’s all relevant. If you can’t address it just admit that or walk away from it.

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, fuck off. You're a troll.

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How am I trolling? My comment count on this site as well as the things I said to you in our discussion would indicate that I’m not a troll just because we see things from a different POV

I don’t expect an answer, lol. I’m just shocked because I’ve never been accused of trolling before lol

[–]ColoredTwice 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

It does not really sound as "white feminism", as problems of any group of men are not really problems of feminism and problems that any feminism should be adressing and/or solving. When women of color are left behind - that is completely other topic.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

My point is that this person is talking about black men “using white women for sex” (which by the way is the same exact thing that a lot of black people feel like white women are doing to black men) and this woman instantly tried to change the direction of the conversation rather than address what my point was- that some members of an oppressive group (white people- yes including women) fetishize the people they oppress (black men) and that it should be called out. Black men don’t have power over white women. Physically possibly because they are men, but politically or any other way? Not really. History, recent and way back, can verify this. That doesn’t mean that I think this is a feminist discussion or issue, I know it’s not. I’m saying this person I was talking to reeks of the “white feminist” mentality that many woc are talking about, from her flipping things to make white women the victim when she could have just not commented since she was out of her depth, her calling me a troll and telling me to fuck off for suggesting that woc receive worse treatment and that shouldn’t be dismissed, to her bringing rape into it when I was talking about how this subject impacts our communities and where it stems from. I showed this thread to my friends (white and woc friends) and they all see what I was saying. I’m not going to try to convince any one to see it, if you get it you get it. If you don’t you don’t. You don’t have to be talking about a feminist issue for your “white feminist mentality” to shine through. It doesn’t matter. This isn’t a safe space for black women just as the reddit gc sub wasn’t. I said what I said and I stand by it.

[–]kwallio 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Black men don’t have power over white women

Which group got the vote first?

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

You do realize that while black men technically had the right to vote before white Women, white people went out of their way to make sure that black people didn’t vote well after women got the right to vote, yes? That they made up laws and qualifications that denied black people voting rights? Maybe, look up poll taxes, literacy tests, and grandfather clauses? Or how black people were considered less than a whole human? That one of the reasons some white women protested not having the right to vote, literally one of the points they made in favor of being given the right to vote, was that the “unfit and alien race” had the right to vote already? Or that white suffragettes made sure to inform the powers that be that more white women than black would vote, so it was okay to let women vote? That Carrie Chapman Catt literally told white men to allow white women to vote because it “honorably upheld white supremacy”?

And that even as white Women were gaining the right to vote themselves, they actively participated in making sure to suppress black voters- of both sexes? Women got the right to vote in 1920- black votes being suppressed legally was an issue well into the 60’s. Nice try tho.

Does that answer your question?

Also, which group has a history of making false claims of violence (or even just attraction/flirtation) and getting the other killed? (Hint: it’s white Women, not black men)

[–]kwallio 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Black men actually did have the right to vote until the north abandoned the south and the south responded for with jim crow laws. So for about 10 years, black men had the franchise and women did not. You really seem to be invested in the idea that white women have power over black men and white woman are never fetishized for their race, when multiple women in the thread have said has happened to them. Either you are trolling or are so blind to misogyny you can't see it when its perpetrated by a black man.

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I literally said so many times that I know some black men do fetishize white Women. I haven’t said shit in defense of any men. I said that I don’t think it’s wrong to call out fetishizing black men- black people being fetishized is a thing we talk about and get upset about (we being black people, not this sub) often- I should’ve known this wasn’t a safe space to discuss the issue. Everyone wants to argue- yet nobody can tell me why it’s wrong for white women who do actually fetishize black men to be called out? Why is that a problem? It’s not calling out all white women- its calling out the ones who reinforce racism in this particular way. The thing is, everyone wants to say that it’s not common- black people see it daily, it is common for us to encounter, it literally happens even to our children. And it should be talked about. That doesn’t mean that when we fetishize others it has to be ignored- but why am i not even allowed to mention when it happens to my race, when it relates to OP’s post, without it being flipped and dismissed rather than addressed?

And yes, I do believe that white people have power over black people. Which would, in some ways and some circumstances, mean that white women have power over black men. Are black men still stronger and still capable of harm? Absolutely. I never said this wasn’t the case. What I said was- White people, including women, have power over poc. I can’t believe this is disputed.

As for the voting- idk what history book you learned from but black votes being suppressed before the civil rights movement is common knowledge. There’s whole letters and speeches and arrest reports of black people being arrested for... trying to vote. But whatever.

[–]kwallio 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

You need to become more educated on reconstruction. There were black congressmen and even senators before jim crow was instituted. It did not last long but it did happen.

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

So you’re saying that because for a brief moment in history before Jim Crow, there were black congressmen and even senators, that that somehow makes the fact that after Jim Crow (and lets be real also before despite some holding office), black votes were legally suppressed irrelevant? That doesn’t really make sense to me. I’m aware of what you’re saying, was aware when I gave my first response to you, but considering that well into the 1960’s black people were still protesting for equal rights, including the right to vote and not have laws and policies in place to prevent them from voting- I don’t think this is a really compelling thing for you to point out. Sounds like you need to become more educated onJim Crow through the civil rights movement, as well as learning what was happening to the black people who weren’t congressmen and even senators pre Jim Crow.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it sounds like you’re saying “white men allowed them to vote, so what if they took that right away from them afterwards” which is not a great argument

[–]emptiedriver 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Black men don’t have power over white women. Physically possibly because they are men, but politically or any other way? Not really. History, recent and way back, can verify this.

I think it's just a question of different kinds of power. I would say broadly speaking that white people have social power over black people, and men have personal power over women, so black men can have personal power over white women, but white women can have a kind of social power over black men - and whereas this is straightforward when it's white men or black women in question, it becomes confusing when it's black men or white women. Having one form of power but not the other will work differently depending on the specifics of the situation. A large black man and a small white women gives an advantage to the black man. A rich, well-known or respected white woman and an unknown or scrappy looking black man can shift the advantage to the white woman. It is also important what the environment is: if the issue is private, fast, physical, the man has odds whereas if it is public, contextualized, socially judged, then the white person does...

The point is, both kinds of power are real and having them overwhelmed can be life-changing. We shouldn't ignore that or shake our heads at each other about it - it's not an either/or situation, and it's not a competition. It just depends. But we should be remembering the whole time, both forms matter. Non-black women matter and black men matter, just as much as black women. Misogyny and racism are both still active forces.

[–]whateverneverpine 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Are you a black male?

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

No lmao I don’t have to be a man to see racism.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

If you were a woman, might help you to see sexism.

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Lmao I am a woman. I see sexism. I also see racism.

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yet you only seem to care about men.

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Then either your reading comprehension skills are flawed or you read what you want to read. I really don’t care either way what you think. I’m a multifaceted individual- I can care about feminism and also care about black men. Black men are my family of course I care about them. What I don’t care for is not wasting my time going back with racist white feminists, which is why I’m done talking to you.

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I'm not racist. But women get called out all the damn time for defending men, including the men they marry or are related to. But because you make it about race, and threaten to call anyone who disagrees a racist, you think you ought to get a pass for your blatant misogyny. I don't buy it, miss "white women produce racial porn because they're so privileged". You hate women. You may love people of your own race, but you hate women as a class and don't believe in female oppression. Call me racist all the fuck you want, misogynist.

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Oh my fucking god. All I did this whole time is say that when someone calls out black men being fetishized, they aren’t wrong and it is a problem. It’s racist. It reinforces racism. The fact that you had to fucking argue about it and point out that sometimes black men fetishize white women too was just deflection. I didn’t fucking say that white Women produce racial porn so what the actual fuck do you think you’re talking about? It is common knowledge that white women in porn make more money and are considered more desirable- it is common knowledge unless you’re a fucking racist white woman that white women, while being victims of patriarchy for being female, still have white privilege. I don’t know why you don’t want to acknowledge that, but you trying to fucking call me shit that I’m not and imply that I said shit I didn’t say is not going to make it any less true. You are a fucking racist. Your comments and your refusal to even admit to your privilege is proof of that. I don’t hate women and it’s fucking stupid of you to say that I do. I spend way to much of my time advocating for women and even my free time fucking arguing with actual misogynists for some asshole who doesn’t know me to say that I don’t care about women because I don’t think it’s okay for white women to pretend they aren’t privileged and for them to get upset when people call them out or make fun of their racist shit. I don’t give a fuck what you want to call me because you’re a waste of time. I don’t even care if this comment gets me booted from the sub because no self respecting woc would want to be surrounded by white women who silence them when they have something to say about race. You have been such a colossal waste of my energy.

Tldr- yes, females are oppressed. I never denied that. That doesn’t mean that white privilege doesn’t exist. It does. And white women benefit from it regularly. Including you coming from such a privileged place that you can’t even see how privileged you are. White privilege is privilege over poc- so white women still have privilege over woc. Just as male privilege is privilege over females. Your own comment about white men in charge indicates that even within a patriarchy with males on top, white men are at the top- yet you want to pretend that somehow doesn’t mean white women are at the top too? You can deny it if you want- the rest of us (woc and white women who aren’t racist) know it’s true.