SNL just called out JKR for a 2nd time and more undercutting of white women - 3rd week in a row

submitted by Anon123 from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]ColoredTwice 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

It does not really sound as "white feminism", as problems of any group of men are not really problems of feminism and problems that any feminism should be adressing and/or solving. When women of color are left behind - that is completely other topic.

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

My point is that this person is talking about black men “using white women for sex” (which by the way is the same exact thing that a lot of black people feel like white women are doing to black men) and this woman instantly tried to change the direction of the conversation rather than address what my point was- that some members of an oppressive group (white people- yes including women) fetishize the people they oppress (black men) and that it should be called out. Black men don’t have power over white women. Physically possibly because they are men, but politically or any other way? Not really. History, recent and way back, can verify this. That doesn’t mean that I think this is a feminist discussion or issue, I know it’s not. I’m saying this person I was talking to reeks of the “white feminist” mentality that many woc are talking about, from her flipping things to make white women the victim when she could have just not commented since she was out of her depth, her calling me a troll and telling me to fuck off for suggesting that woc receive worse treatment and that shouldn’t be dismissed, to her bringing rape into it when I was talking about how this subject impacts our communities and where it stems from. I showed this thread to my friends (white and woc friends) and they all see what I was saying. I’m not going to try to convince any one to see it, if you get it you get it. If you don’t you don’t. You don’t have to be talking about a feminist issue for your “white feminist mentality” to shine through. It doesn’t matter. This isn’t a safe space for black women just as the reddit gc sub wasn’t. I said what I said and I stand by it.

[–]kwallio 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Black men don’t have power over white women

Which group got the vote first?

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

You do realize that while black men technically had the right to vote before white Women, white people went out of their way to make sure that black people didn’t vote well after women got the right to vote, yes? That they made up laws and qualifications that denied black people voting rights? Maybe, look up poll taxes, literacy tests, and grandfather clauses? Or how black people were considered less than a whole human? That one of the reasons some white women protested not having the right to vote, literally one of the points they made in favor of being given the right to vote, was that the “unfit and alien race” had the right to vote already? Or that white suffragettes made sure to inform the powers that be that more white women than black would vote, so it was okay to let women vote? That Carrie Chapman Catt literally told white men to allow white women to vote because it “honorably upheld white supremacy”?

And that even as white Women were gaining the right to vote themselves, they actively participated in making sure to suppress black voters- of both sexes? Women got the right to vote in 1920- black votes being suppressed legally was an issue well into the 60’s. Nice try tho.

Does that answer your question?

Also, which group has a history of making false claims of violence (or even just attraction/flirtation) and getting the other killed? (Hint: it’s white Women, not black men)

[–]kwallio 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Black men actually did have the right to vote until the north abandoned the south and the south responded for with jim crow laws. So for about 10 years, black men had the franchise and women did not. You really seem to be invested in the idea that white women have power over black men and white woman are never fetishized for their race, when multiple women in the thread have said has happened to them. Either you are trolling or are so blind to misogyny you can't see it when its perpetrated by a black man.

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I literally said so many times that I know some black men do fetishize white Women. I haven’t said shit in defense of any men. I said that I don’t think it’s wrong to call out fetishizing black men- black people being fetishized is a thing we talk about and get upset about (we being black people, not this sub) often- I should’ve known this wasn’t a safe space to discuss the issue. Everyone wants to argue- yet nobody can tell me why it’s wrong for white women who do actually fetishize black men to be called out? Why is that a problem? It’s not calling out all white women- its calling out the ones who reinforce racism in this particular way. The thing is, everyone wants to say that it’s not common- black people see it daily, it is common for us to encounter, it literally happens even to our children. And it should be talked about. That doesn’t mean that when we fetishize others it has to be ignored- but why am i not even allowed to mention when it happens to my race, when it relates to OP’s post, without it being flipped and dismissed rather than addressed?

And yes, I do believe that white people have power over black people. Which would, in some ways and some circumstances, mean that white women have power over black men. Are black men still stronger and still capable of harm? Absolutely. I never said this wasn’t the case. What I said was- White people, including women, have power over poc. I can’t believe this is disputed.

As for the voting- idk what history book you learned from but black votes being suppressed before the civil rights movement is common knowledge. There’s whole letters and speeches and arrest reports of black people being arrested for... trying to vote. But whatever.

[–]kwallio 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

You need to become more educated on reconstruction. There were black congressmen and even senators before jim crow was instituted. It did not last long but it did happen.

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

So you’re saying that because for a brief moment in history before Jim Crow, there were black congressmen and even senators, that that somehow makes the fact that after Jim Crow (and lets be real also before despite some holding office), black votes were legally suppressed irrelevant? That doesn’t really make sense to me. I’m aware of what you’re saying, was aware when I gave my first response to you, but considering that well into the 1960’s black people were still protesting for equal rights, including the right to vote and not have laws and policies in place to prevent them from voting- I don’t think this is a really compelling thing for you to point out. Sounds like you need to become more educated onJim Crow through the civil rights movement, as well as learning what was happening to the black people who weren’t congressmen and even senators pre Jim Crow.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but it sounds like you’re saying “white men allowed them to vote, so what if they took that right away from them afterwards” which is not a great argument

[–]kwallio 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

You said that white women were allowed to vote before black men and that is simply untrue.

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

So you are saying “white men gave them the right to vote, who cares that they took it away from them”. Got it. Thanks for clarifying. I guess you’re correct on a technicality and using that to ignore that ultimately, the small amount of time where black men were allowed to vote was stripped from them soon after and had to be fought for again well after women won the right to vote. If you want to ignore impact and history and just have a semantics argument, you should’ve said that before. There’s not really any point in going back and forth with you, you don’t care about the actual point of the discussion, you just want to be technically correct. Congratulations, I guess.

[–]emptiedriver 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Black men don’t have power over white women. Physically possibly because they are men, but politically or any other way? Not really. History, recent and way back, can verify this.

I think it's just a question of different kinds of power. I would say broadly speaking that white people have social power over black people, and men have personal power over women, so black men can have personal power over white women, but white women can have a kind of social power over black men - and whereas this is straightforward when it's white men or black women in question, it becomes confusing when it's black men or white women. Having one form of power but not the other will work differently depending on the specifics of the situation. A large black man and a small white women gives an advantage to the black man. A rich, well-known or respected white woman and an unknown or scrappy looking black man can shift the advantage to the white woman. It is also important what the environment is: if the issue is private, fast, physical, the man has odds whereas if it is public, contextualized, socially judged, then the white person does...

The point is, both kinds of power are real and having them overwhelmed can be life-changing. We shouldn't ignore that or shake our heads at each other about it - it's not an either/or situation, and it's not a competition. It just depends. But we should be remembering the whole time, both forms matter. Non-black women matter and black men matter, just as much as black women. Misogyny and racism are both still active forces.