Are CAIS male or female? by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

because apparently all it takes to be a female is "identifying" as female, and being thought of as a female by society because of your stereotypical roles, clothing, make up, disorders and surgically mutilated body parts, am I right /s

Um, no. It takes a diagnosable medical condition that renders one completely, phenotypically "female" despite having male chromosomes. Something no trans male person can claim.

And I am open to other suggestions for what to call them. Since they appear to be female, are usually raised as female, in most cases have the outward biological organs of female... it's not at all the same as being trans. Even their parents and siblings are likely to consider them female. It's not about their "identity", I think it should be irrelevant what "gender" they think of themselves as - how are they "assigned" at birth? Genuinely don't know this, but I'm assuming that unless there's an obvious problem and genetic testing is done: they're identified as female. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that, but without invoking anyone's feelings cause I don't give a shit.

Are CAIS male or female? by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are genetically male, socially female imo. They are the only kind of people who can claim this.

TiM Olympian goes from not knowing anything about archery to competing on the women's Olympics team in less than 5 years. by shyambala in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Upper body strength is a major factor in archery, possibly moreso than anything else.

I am a crime scene cleaner who hit peak trans when I realized just how many suicide clean ups are tifs, and Tims, part ama part exposition, tw: gore and sucide, and CSA by terf41percentjanny in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, but I wonder which comes first for many of them - the depravity or the trans identity? The movement itself encourages members to act on their basest, most disgusting desires, there's no filter for any of it and nothing is ever over-the-line. There is no line for this cult. Which is not to discount the responsibility of their actions for those who fall into it, but I don't believe all of them are lost causes. They're junkies seeking more extreme fixes. What they need is psychological intervention and a way of out of their cult. That's my hope, at least.

It’s nooooooooot a fetish by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It... it would almost certainly be cheaper and more realistic to just clone yourself... sigh Fetishistic men.

This Gender Identity Argument Self-Destructs by soundsituation in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, it seems increasingly pointless to debate TRAs. Their counterarguments are usually "you're a meanie"(aka TERF) or "so what?"

Is the Wi-Spa incident a hoax? by Camberian in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Slate is not a credible source on this issue.

Everybody look at the cute prepuberty transkid and ignore the huge balding men in women's sports: Guardian article by GConly in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fair enough, I'm no expert on it. Just doesn't make sense to have two groups when they're going to be on the same field and none of requires competition between them.

Everybody look at the cute prepuberty transkid and ignore the huge balding men in women's sports: Guardian article by GConly in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's so absurd, I lived through the "dubbya" years. It's why I tuned out so much of the 'Orange hitler man bad' nonsense and didn't lose my mind like so many Democrats - been there, done that. They called GW a nazi, and Hitler, he was going to bring about WW3... hell, I had a bumper stick that I'm mildly embarrassed thinking about now: "Why change horsemen mid-apocalypse" as a criticism to voting for him for a second term. And now it seems like the media and left love him? Give me a break. I'm not dumb enough to support their crap anymore.

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if they did declare him the first trans president. Seems mild compared to all the history they're already rewriting.

Everybody look at the cute prepuberty transkid and ignore the huge balding men in women's sports: Guardian article by GConly in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

cheer was not sex-segregated

Why even sex-segregate it? My understanding is they can do a lot more complicated routines with the boys able to lift the girls.

UK mom sentenced to Life in Prison after learning husband sexually abused her kids, 1 of whom committed suicide! by Lostkey in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk, I agree with the words. But if this was me, and my kids, I'd probably do the same. I like to think I'd take him to court first, but if he was found not guilty? Yeah, I'd be going to prison. It'd be worth it.

Women can have penises and men can have vaginas? by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Words have meaning. They allow us to communicate with each other and have a complex written language. If you'd rather go back to scratching on cave walls and grunting, no one's stopping you.

Amy Hamm, prominent Canadian GC activist & nurse is under investigation by College of Nurses for expressing gender critical views by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ain't no place for proper biological understanding in our nurses. Seriously, though, this ideology will kill people.

HUMAN BEINGS AREN'T CLOWNFISH by FrancisAaronUK in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm subscribed, but I seem to miss your uploads, so thanks for posting them here too. :)

The bright people of r/gendercynical think "giving birth" is a "gender role", I know they are struggling to get sex but it's no excuse to not understand what is "Sex" by FineIWillDoItMyself in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They confuse the idea of potentiality and view the world in black and white(ironically they have very binary thinking). Women are people with the potential to give birth, and the potential to produce large gametes. That doesn't mean every person classified as a woman will be impregnable or produce large gametes. These people seem incapable of processing nuance, and believe that if not every female is a flawless woman, biologically speaking, then no one knows what a woman is.

I think there’s a lot more evidence linking transgenderism and raging narcissists by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, to some degree, there is an intelligence involved in rhetoric, even if the premise of one's argument is complete nonsense. But I think there's a larger argument about the nature of intelligence(or maybe wisdom) and truth - IE, if the premise of your argument is utter bullshit, and you continue arguing it, you're either 1. Too stupid to realize this, or 2. A pathological liar/narcissist. I believe that to be truly intelligent you have to have the ability to evaluate yourself and those around you accurately. Argumentation and rhetorical strategy can be learned, even by people who are otherwise not very bright.

Your point is fair though, and I have seen those types on reddit.

I think there’s a lot more evidence linking transgenderism and raging narcissists by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 13 insightful - 8 fun13 insightful - 7 fun14 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, what. I've never met an online TRA who wasn't dumb as a box of rocks and twice as deluded.

To people in the radical feminist community who supported Anita Sarkeesian for all these years, this is how you get rewarded by shzprm in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I genuinely don't know, her thought process is hard to follow.

"Women can have autogynephilia too" by Wangchuck in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!

Public outcry over Laurel Hubbard's Olympic dreams by BiologyIsReal in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that's just wrong. I understand that it is part of the rules - but why? I've never heard of THC having any benefit in athletics. They shouldn't even be testing for it.

"Women can have autogynephilia too" by Wangchuck in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If they do, I wonder to what extent it only exists in women who grew up in the age of ubiquitous porn and in the culture that then must adapt to that as an increasingly dominant form of entertainment for an increasingly idle population.

It's an excellent question, I don't know. I do know that autogynophilia was a term used by Richard Blanchard(unsure if he actually coined it) specifically to describe a male phenomenon he noticed in particular men. I believe he theorized autoandrophilia may exist, but never presented evidence of it. The 'women autogynophile' claim has been passed around the trans community for as long as I can remember, but almost none of them can link to the actual study.

"Women can have autogynephilia too" by Wangchuck in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've heard that, just not of any formal studies.

"Women can have autogynephilia too" by Wangchuck in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I believe it was one "study"(a survey handed out to a few women at a mall) where the traditional questions to determine male autogynephilia were changed to things like "do you think about sex when wearing sexy clothes?" Nothing about whether they were attracted to themselves - and even if they were, there's a difference between thinking YOUR body is attractive and thinking you'd be attractive if you had someone else's body. It's just not possible for women to have autogynephilia, there's no way to compare the male experience of it. They could have autoandrophilia, but there's very few studies of this that I've heard of.

To people in the radical feminist community who supported Anita Sarkeesian for all these years, this is how you get rewarded by shzprm in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Family, not friend. And she'd be the former, and frankly not very bright. Literally the only "news" she reads are hardcore propaganda from left-wing sources. I have no idea how she realized the trans stuff is BS, or how she doesn't make the connection... but given how many other contradictory things I've known her to say, it's not THAT surprising. I guess she picked up on the 'men in women's spaces' thing and reacted to that, but didn't do any research into how it was happening.

To people in the radical feminist community who supported Anita Sarkeesian for all these years, this is how you get rewarded by shzprm in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have to think it's either fear or cognitive dissonance. I know a person, hardcore leftist, who doesn't like the idea of men in women's spaces, and knows that the trans junk is nonsense. But the moment I point out that it's the left pushing for it, she starts accusing me of lying. shrug People don't want to confront the reality that they may be supporting terrible ideas/ideologies.

To people in the radical feminist community who supported Anita Sarkeesian for all these years, this is how you get rewarded by shzprm in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Completely agree, with all this. I just was never a big fan of platform games. Too much button-mashing perfection that I didn't have the patience for. RPGs had more interesting stories, characters, and involved more strategy and planning that I was better at. But I loved watching my brother play platform games, especially Metroid. It was cool just knowing that she was a woman, and yeah, you only knew that originally at the end of the game.

I think it’s a core component of the libfem mindset.

Yep. The problem is that they have outrage, but no logical or ethical foundation for it. I've had arguments with libfems where they contradict themselves within the same paragraph. You call it out, and they just make up some other piece of nonsense. Most of them don't argue at all anyway, they speak in memes and soundbite phrases they can't explain.

To people in the radical feminist community who supported Anita Sarkeesian for all these years, this is how you get rewarded by shzprm in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“men with tits.”

Uggggh. When they actually tried to shove Samus into a more feminine box, it was cringy and stupid. Even as a child who didn't particularly like Metroid, I thought it was awesome that this badass space soldier was a woman. She didn't have to shove her woman-ness into it, the good part about it was that it didn't matter, story-wise. She could have been a man, but she wasn't because the creators said a woman could be a hero, too. That's fucking awesome.

I too have been gaming since my earliest memories. My absolute favorite childhood RPG gave you the choice of being male or female. This was back in the VERY early 90s, when games had 8 bits and every pixel was counting against memory. And yet, it wasn't even the first game to do that. I can think of many others at the time, or a few years later, and earlier, that had male and female leads/notable characters, or just female heroines. Yes, games are targeted primarily to men, but individual games are better targets of criticism rather than the entire industry.

The fake feminists who push this crap are either trading on sexism outrage, or are just obsessed with sexist stereotypes themselves. So of course they love the trans.

Their title is ironic and they are unaware of it by TheOnyxGoddess in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think so, but it's really not my decision.

Their title is ironic and they are unaware of it by TheOnyxGoddess in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that'd be a great blog and/or study to read about. I say go for it.

Their title is ironic and they are unaware of it by TheOnyxGoddess in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Prime numbers aren't science, so he's deeply confused. Of course they're well-defined, everything in math is, as it's based on pure logic and constructed from human thought. Science is an observational field. It's impossible to guarantee that nothing will ever happen that contradicts an observation that you're making today.

Their title is ironic and they are unaware of it by TheOnyxGoddess in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really, it's a form of appeal to authority logical fallacy. This university told them they know enough about biology to pass some tests, so therefore nothing they say on the subject of biology could be wrong. If anything, it's an indictment of the university - both for allowing them to pass courses while having fundamental misunderstandings of basic concepts, and for not teaching them logical thinking.

California Women's Prison Passes Out Condoms to Inmate Population As Arrival Of "Transwomen" Causes Explosion Of Risky Sex (author is a female inmate) by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is an excellent point, and one I'll keep in mind if I'm ever called for jury duty.

The eternal delusion by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

wtf, Aceflux is a new one to me. What a convoluted way to say you're normal. I mean... these dudes aren't really "normal", but it sounds like that one has a normal sexual drive.

Is anyone else shocked at how horrendously racist all the rhetoric from the progressives seems to have become overnight? by Wangchuck in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The only difference is the smugness. They're racist, and they're fucking proud of it.

Is anyone else shocked at how horrendously racist all the rhetoric from the progressives seems to have become overnight? by Wangchuck in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know about shocking so much as infuriating and disgusting. When I was a kid I remember learning about the Civil War, and Jim Crow, and segregation, and thinking that none of it made any sense because skin color didn't make anyone more or less human. We were all the same. I didn't need Woke education to realize that.

But just a few decades later, Coke tells us to "be less white" and a friend acting like single-parent black households are something innate to blackness rather than a cultural shift in this country dating a few generations back. Or Robin De-worst-racist-on-earth pretending that there's some fundamental difference between the races that means we can never understand each other. The left is so fucking brainwashed by the media telling them what is and isn't racist that they're embracing actual overt racism wholeheartedly. I grew up with these people, I thought we were equally liberal and I thought I knew what that meant. I don't know which disgusts me more, how easy it was for them to adopt racism, or how easy it was for them to be brainwashed, period.

The Trans-Racial guy, Oli London, is ON FIRE. If you're on Twitter pls point out the hypocrisy/logical fallacy of trans-gender=stunning & brave vs trans-racial= offensive & delusional. by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

DNA tests can get the general area those traits are common from, but can't usually pinpoint the exact ethnic group without extra information like family history.

This. Too many people take these tests as gospel. The testers assume that traits ONLY appear in X ethnic group, when most traits occur independently spread out among many(if not all) groups of humans. We are too similar to each other to truly divide along racial lines, beyond superficial differences. Which is not to say race isn't real and doesn't matter, but it truly is a social construct, while sex has actual, measurable impact. The irony of this is completely lost on these morons.

Are you threatening or abusing anyone on Twitter? by whateverneverpine in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Claims not substantiated by evidence aren't worth the bandwidth it takes to post them online. In answer to your question, I've never heard of any organized group of radical feminists threatening or abusing anyone, and I don't believe for a second they could do it on Twitter.

GC Participants: Do you consider yourself a radfem? by usehername in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Humans have demonstrated via evidence that the earth is round, taken pictures of it from space and done calculations using the distance between various locations. It could be mathematically proven to be round, and I'm pretty sure that was done. And sure, I agree with your statement about political lesbianism too.

GC Participants: Do you consider yourself a radfem? by usehername in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Conversion therapy is scientifically proven

This doesn't mean anything. Nothing can be scientifically proven. What you mean is, the evidence is against any indication that it is possible, and there is additional evidence that attempting it is harmful. All this focus on "science proves" and "anti science" is very religious and should be avoided.

GC Participants: Do you consider yourself a radfem? by usehername in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Most likely.

Opting out of oppression by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I suspect that this is a common feeling among straight women. Women are curvy and more aesthetically pleasing to look at it, with nicely shaped faces. I can appreciate fit looking, athletic men, but there's very few of them I would say are "beautiful"(even if I'm otherwise attracted to them).

GC Participants: Do you consider yourself a radfem? by usehername in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

It is opposed to science because they're claiming that it's possible to choose your sexual orientation, which is simply impossible, and studies have shown that there are people who are truly only attracted to one sex. The fact that conversion therapy fails every time also gives credibility to the fact that sexual orientation is an immutable trait. As a lesbian, I'm sure you can understand that you will never be attracted to men, even if you really tried. Are you really saying that the claim that it's possible to choose your sexual orientation isn't anti-science?

I think you're taking a too black-and-white view on this subject. Studies showing that some people are responding sexually to stimuli representing only one sex does not prove that those people cannot change their sexuality, nor even that those people are exclusively attracted to one sex. Now, I will emphasize: I don't believe it's possible to change one's sexuality, and I do believe there are people who are exclusively attracted to one sex or the other. But refusing to consider the possibility that that ISN'T the case would itself be "anti-science." Science is a process of experimentation, it doesn't give very many definitive answers about the way the world works - especially when it comes to a subject as complex as human sexuality.

Saying that conversion therapy fails every time and is therefore anti-science is not a pro-science mindset either. What we can say is that the methods that have been attempted appear not to be effective. We can also say that there does not appear to be a compelling reason to force someone to change their sexuality, so further experiments may be cruel. But if someone swears to know of a method that does work, and doesn't infringe on human dignity? I would simply want to see the evidence.

As for political lesbianism, telling women they can choose to be lesbians seems silly and counter-productive. But "science" does not say, definitively, that this is impossible. There are women that believe it is possible, and some women who swear it has worked for them. I don't believe them, but calling them "anti-science" is not going to convince them they're wrong. And who cares? So long as they aren't forcing other women to go along with it the way TRAs do, they can believe what they want. To me, if a woman is in a sexual relationship with another woman, they're lesbians. If they're living together in sexless relationship, they're roommates/friends. I don't care what they call it in either case.

GC Participants: Do you consider yourself a radfem? by usehername in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

They are, but I don't know that that means everything they wrote was well-received and popular, even among radical feminists. For as long as I've been familiar with the community, political lesbianism has been an extremely controversial/offensive topic.

But please don’t trigger my dysphoria by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, same. I don't know who told him women "keep their legs in the air" during it either. I assume someone who just wanted a laugh, cause that just sounds exhausting to me.

Opting out of oppression by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very. Not to sound all woke or anything, but all people and all skin colors are beautiful. Especially women. I'm straight, but I love female beauty, and there are strikingly beautiful women of all ethnicities.

Opting out of oppression by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Very sad, that this is what people are actually doing with sex - and that this was the reality for some black people. Not to the extent described here(I hope), but certainly there were those who attempted to bleach their skin or alter their natural hair and facial features to "look white."

But please don’t trigger my dysphoria by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 18 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Idk, these seem like the kind of problems you'd want to have. Here I am worrying about student debt and my career and what to make for dinner tonight and this guy? This guy? Clearly everything is going great for him. Well... almost everything.

Taking a stand: I told my gynecologist to take "transgender" off of sex options by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do live in red state... alas. But I can at least try to get involved in local politics.

Taking a stand: I told my gynecologist to take "transgender" off of sex options by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same :( I like my coworkers, and talk to them occasionally about politics - the parts I agree with them about. But I don't know them that well, and I am genuinely afraid of saying that I hold X slightly right-of-center views(to say nothing of transgenderism). It's not just that I'd fear for my employment, I don't want to be hated by these people. Even though we mostly agree!

Taking a stand: I told my gynecologist to take "transgender" off of sex options by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

because I mentioned Gender Joe Biden

I believe it. I have relatives who signed me off as a conservative far-right Trump supporter the moment I started being critical of Biden about ANYTHING. Even after years of advocating for far-left hippy liberal borderline marxist positions. People in the US largely don't think about politics at all. There are two teams, and you're either on theirs, or you're the enemy.

Genderology's End Goal: Chinese scientists get male rats to give BIRTH by conjoining them with females and transplanting a uterus in 'vile Frankenscience' study by BEB in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So... using inbred rats that were sewn together and mutilating two female rats to induce "pregnancy" in one castrated male rat, most of the embryos died. I can see TIMs eating up this study. I feel sorry for the rats.

The terror of reality by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 16 insightful - 8 fun16 insightful - 7 fun17 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Just wait till this Laurent person hears about the religion of the Pope, where bears defecate, or the value of 2 and 2.

Skirt go spinny by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 12 insightful - 13 fun12 insightful - 12 fun13 insightful - 13 fun -  (0 children)

Penis go erecty.

Do not want, thanks: "It's time to add “chestfeeding” to your vocabulary" by Femaleisnthateful in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Now that's a definition I could support.

Can you give me arguments against "children and people who remove their sex organs are sexless or desexed"? by [deleted] in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dude. Do you know any medical, social, physical/physiological facts about boys and girls? Have you ever changed a diaper or toilet trained or worked as a camp counselor or coached children's sports? Are you seriously in need of arguments against this?

Here's one. My cats are both fixed, and have been since before either of them experienced any sort of "cat puberty" equivalent. I'm still aware that drinking milk is statistically more dangerous for the male(not sexless) cat, that it is more important for him to drink lots of water and get exercise(higher risk of weight gain/kidney stones). I'm aware that the female cat no longer wants to play-fight, and because she is smaller and less muscular, I occasionally need to separate the two. It would be less of an issue if they were both males.

Understand? These are just cats. The differences between male and female children and eunuch male and female adults(to say nothing of intact male and female adults) are vast and far better studied. Do your own research instead of demanding others do it for you.

To the Gamers of Gender Critical, What do you think of the character Bayonetta? by Kai_Decadence in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's good :)

To the Gamers of Gender Critical, What do you think of the character Bayonetta? by Kai_Decadence in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hmm, so it sounds like the exaggerated femininity is part of the gimmick of the game. In which case... I think it's probably fine. She apparently has flaws, a personality, goals, and actual character development, which puts her ahead the vast majority of female video game/movie characters, including many "feminist" ones. I get that she's designed to appeal to the male gaze, and maybe some would take issue with that - but it's also good to have female characters that males are encouraged to empathize with. And maybe especially if they're females the men are attracted to.

To the Gamers of Gender Critical, What do you think of the character Bayonetta? by Kai_Decadence in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm really not sure. The design is more than a little ridiculous, and I've heard the game is also a bit ridiculous(in various ways), but I've never played it. The character design doesn't make me want to play the game. But I'd want more context about the character's personality, and how much the blatant sexuality is used within the game, in what ways, etc, before I'd say that she's a bad/anti-feminist character. If the player is expected to be invested in her relationship with at least one other female character(as you mention), sounds like it can't be all bad. And that there are some positive aspects of the representation.

So I guess where I come down on it is that ultra-feminine characters are not necessarily bad, and that story, personality, and player empathy for the character is a better way to evaluate it.

Help me understand how CAIS is not a problem for us? by whoamiwhowhowhowho in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I really don't remember, it was a long time ago on r/gendercritical, sorry. As far as I'm aware that's an assessment used by doctors/scientists to sort out between useful biological categories. I don't believe it's philosophical in nature, beyond the social recognition of appearance being more relevant than genes. I'd recommend looking into Alice Dreger's work on intersex individuals.

Help me understand how CAIS is not a problem for us? by whoamiwhowhowhowho in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People who have the external characteristics of females(primarily vagina/vulvas) are women.

People who have ambiguous external characteristics but internal characteristics of females(uterus, ovaries) are women.

People who have ambiguous external and internal characteristics but genetically have an inactive SRY gene are women.

Those with an active SRY gene have the potential to produce sperm, and so are male.

That is how I've heard the definition of women created for edge cases, and the progression of how it would be determined. I don't believe it's true that all people with CAIS have testes, but if they had functional ones, they would be male. Really though, getting hung up on edge cases is a distraction. These decisions are made by doctors, and anyone demanding that you personally needs to decide whether an edge case is male or female doesn't seriously care about intersex conditions or people.

Also please note, the rule I gave above is not something I'm interested in debating. I'm not a doctor and I don't give a shit about X person with abnormal characteristics. Ask a doctor.

Ummmmmm by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh man, that's embarrassing. They switched the pictures for their meme.

Nobody ever can define "gender" by xxo1111 in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's because their narrative is bullshit and they know it. The only defense they have is to attack anyone questioning it.

What's the general consensus on sexuality being a choice? by SexualityCritical in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think you mean you. You are not reasonable, since you do this all the bloody time. Saying that, basically, we choose who we have sex with does not mean I think rape is impossible. It is absurd to make that claim.

What's the general consensus on sexuality being a choice? by SexualityCritical in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

would this mean that political lesbianism is not real lesbianism?

I think that if two women are in a loving, sexual relationship, they are lesbians. Real or fake does not factor into it, and you may be overthinking this.

which couldn't be the case, as I wasn't always sexually drawn to men

Not true. Some genetic predispositions are activated at puberty. If you had a predisposition to be attracted to men, there's no reason it would feel anything except natural, whenever or however it happened.

I can't stand the thought of someone telling another that one can't be a lesbian or a gay man because they don't possess genes which apparently exist.

This is ridiculous, and not related to what I said. I don't believe that sexual attraction is chosen, consciously. This does not mean that someone cannot choose with whom or how they have sex, for whatever reason. I can't see into someone's heart or mind, and I don't care to. I posited one theory about where sexual attraction stems from. I have no way of knowing if a gay man or lesbian or heterosexual has any particular genes or what their sexual motivations are - and I don't care. People can choose any way they want to express or not express their sexuality.

I don't understand what your argument is, you seem to be throwing out a lot of different ideas, many of which are not related. My own view is nowhere near as rigid as yours, so I don't know what you're reaching for here.

What's the general consensus on sexuality being a choice? by SexualityCritical in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Uhhh ok. I think it would be reasonable to assume in this context that I was not talking about rape, assault, coercion, prostitution, etc, given that I said HOW WE HAVE SEX. Rape, assault, coercion, prostitution are not "how we have sex." They are the names given to them.

What's the general consensus on sexuality being a choice? by SexualityCritical in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The general question is usually whether sexuality is innate vs whether we choose it. I think it's probably more complex than that and based on many factors, including genetics. I don't believe anyone consciously chooses their sexuality. At the same time, I do believe you can learn to be more attracted to someone/some sex/some sexual activity, to some degree. When this is voluntarily chosen, as with political lesbianism - well, so long as everyone's happy with it, sure, w/e. When it's forced, that's rape and/or conversion therapy.

But yes, from a broader perspective, with whom and how we have sex is entirely chosen.

Thank you for your work erasing women by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 8 insightful - 8 fun8 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Gender vampires, I believe they're called.

No "women" allowed here by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Lol... probably how they think "trans-affirming surgery" works, but there's some bad news about that 'lifetime warranty...'

Doctor: Time for transgender treatment industry to “follow the science” by BiologyIsReal in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I know. I was just responding to that comment.

Doctor: Time for transgender treatment industry to “follow the science” by BiologyIsReal in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except... they do? There are unethical doctors who are only in it to make a buck. There has to be some kind of oversight for any organization that deals with the public. We need to regulate doctors for the same reason we need to tell companies not to put lead in baby formula.

Am I the only one who tried to pass for a man online? by LeoneOkada in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like playing female characters in games. But there's one I've played for a while and EVERY SINGLE female character got the same creepy messages from the same creepy dudes. My strategy is to be weird/oblivious in response, if not outright ignoring them - but there's nothing wrong with choosing to play a game in a way that's fun FOR YOU. I mean, just think about what I just said. If you have more fun playing a male, even if the reason why is because of the other males - then do that. That's called being smart and prioritizing your time and enjoyment, not "internalized misogyny". You don't owe your attention or exposing your real sex/name to creeps.

I'm more likely to pick a masculine or gender-neutral sounding name in discussion boards, myself. Always seems those "names" are treated with more respect, and I can't imagine why that could be... /s

Getting vaccinated is transphobic according to mentally ill Manitobans. What happened to you, Canada? by linda_senora in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I made it to the second paragraph before my eyes rolled back so hard I got eyestrain and couldn't keep reading. If they wanted to protect themselves from covid, they'd figure it out themselves.

How EXACTLY do trans right dilute the rights of other minorities and/or women? by GCCritical in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Completely agree. I thought OP was going for the tired trope of 'starving children in Africa', but it's so vague it could mean literally anything related to children that happen to dwell within that continent.

How EXACTLY do trans right dilute the rights of other minorities and/or women? by GCCritical in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What is the exact mechanism by which you think this occurs?

What is this supposed to mean?

"Women's rights" -> "What about the children in Africa?"

Children in Africa are not a direct or indirect challenge to the rights of women anywhere else.

(Although arguably they overlap in many circumstances and largely should be able to co-exist).

How do they overlap? Women want the right to sex-segregated spaces - women's shelters, prisons, hospitals, changing rooms, dorms, barracks, sports, and many, many more. Women's rights include abortion, which is a question only relevant to people able to give birth. Women's rights include questions over pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, pornography as it relates to female bodies, prostitution as it relates to female persons. Pornography and prostitution may impact male people as well, but those would not fall under the purview of "women's rights."

So HOW do "Trans Rights"(what are these?) overlap and can co-exist with women's rights? There is a direct contradiction between sex = biology and sex = gender identity. This cannot be reconciled.

The entitlement of the AGP trans male by jokuvaan in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this is a brilliant way to put it.

Between a rock and a hard place by QueenBread in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For sure. Twitter at least upholds some reports I submit about violent trans accounts. Reddit? Lol.

Between a rock and a hard place by QueenBread in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reddit has always been a dumpsterfire for women. What I've noticed in the past 5-10 years or so is that the left either doesn't care about feminism anymore, or their definition of feminism is so mangled and pro-trans it's unrecognizable. When I talk to people on the left about feminism, it always comes down pronouns or they just don't care. They don't even seem to care about abortion anymore, and they're pro-porn and pro-prostitution. On the right, they'll usually say they're anti-feminist - but if I actually talk about the issues, they will have the discussion. Some parts they'll agree to, some they'll disagree with, but they'll have the discussion. Not saying right-wingers are wonderful, but in a war between basic fundamental truth and gaslighting bullshit, you have to side with truth before there can be any reasonable discussion. I say this as a former lifetime liberal democrat: I can't talk to the left anymore.

How dare the woman I tricked into marrying me say she'll leave me if I transition by Chunkeeguy in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For sure. And the only truly unconditional love is the kind you get from a dog. Any human person has a finite amount of shit they're willing to tolerate. Abuse victims may tolerate abuse, but I wouldn't say they do so out of "love."

Billboard Chris has a conversation with a Polyamorous Androgynous Man about Puberty Blockers by supersmokio6420 in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I loved this, really highlights the ignorance and lack of self-awareness of these men.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just block him, he has nothing interesting to say and has no grasp of facts or logic.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, I block that IrrationalChaotic fellow, and there's all of 9 comments left! At least those nine comments are sane.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol. Get your head out of your ass - though check for prostate cancer before you do - and come back with an actual argument. Actually no, just leave.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're a liar, and please leave me alone now.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please let the other poster know.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

hormones do work the same in male and female bodies

Show evidence.

I'm still waiting for you

You made the original claim. Show evidence.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

is going to be far more similar to the sex hormone being taken at the time, correct?

Nooooo. This is the thing you need to find evidence for. Our bodies are not just organs held together by hormones.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, yes. He's fairly ridiculous, even as TIMs go. Sorry your thread got hijacked, the medical issues are important!

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Physiology: the branch of biology that deals with the normal functions of living organisms and their parts. the way in which a living organism or bodily part functions.

So you're giving me an article from a textbook on how hormones bond to a cell. And about unusual chromosome patterns as if that's supposed to be relevant to anything(hint: it's not). What you're needing to find is a study that shows that hormone changes cause physiological changes on a system-wide scale, since your claim is that taking cross sex hormones can change how heart attacks work in male vs female bodies. This would also require showing that hormones are in some way responsible for heart attack symptoms in a normal member of either sex.

So, here's a weird little condition that for some reason only women and TIFs suffer from:

https://cancer-network.org/cancer-information/transgendergender-nonconforming-people-and-cancer/ovarian-cancer-in-transgender-men/

Could you explain to me why, no matter how much testosterone a male, transgender or not, takes, he will never develop ovarian cancer?

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sorry, what? That doesn't in any way contradict anything I said. No, I would find it a far more surprising result if cross-sex transplants were always a failure. A male heart is - as far as I'm aware - very similar to a female heart, just larger. Same as a male liver, or pancreas, or kidney. Separating people into individual organs doesn't answer the question of male vs female physiology.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, breast cancer could fall into the category of increased risk, which is what I was saying. And again, I'm not saying that that is what's going on, I'm saying I don't know if that's what the data shows. In the case of females having vaginal atrophy, that is absolutely a risk they would not otherwise have had.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

...Are you serious right now? Hormones do not work the same in male bodies as they do in female bodies, REGARDLESS of what type of hormones they are or if you are taking them at a comparable rate. TIMs interactions with estrogen can only tell us how males respond to estrogen. It tells us NOTHING about post-menopausal women.

Site your evidence that hormones literally remake physiology, and I'll dig up some studies that say that men remain men and have male symptoms - even after taking estrogen.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It may increase the risk of certain kinds of conditions(heart disease, stroke), but it wouldn't necessarily make you more susceptible to a broader range of conditions. IE, it could be that the only trans-identified people that develop strokes are already at risk for them. But I don't know on that, it's just speculative. Point is, hormones cause cause side effects and promote some risks, but they don't change underlying physiology.

To be clear, I agree with your statement, and ignoring this will cause a lot of preventable tragedies.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Go for it, then. Drugging yourself with artificial hormones does cause all sorts of medical side effects which might be worth researching. In the meantime, it would be prudent for these people to acknowledge that their heart attack symptoms will be based on sex.

A question for the community. by Basghetti in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No it isn't. This would be a good reason to acknowledge the difference between sex and gender identity, ie, the latter doesn't exist. TIMs have male-typical symptoms for heart attacks, TIFs have female-typical.

Caitlyn Jenner Says Biological Boys Who Are Trans Shouldn't Compete in Female Sports by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know that you meant in regards to professional sports. Not trying to be pedantic, I just see people doing this all the time now where personal experience is the only knowledge that's taken seriously. On something as basic as this, being an olympic athlete should be irrelevant. Any man or woman or says it's unfair should be heard, because it's obvious.

Caitlyn Jenner Says Biological Boys Who Are Trans Shouldn't Compete in Female Sports by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a transwoman who competed pre-transition in the olympics. He knows his stuff.

Does he? I don't like this theory that only "lived experience" counts as knowledge. People who have never done something can still learn about it, look at statistics, or read studies. Lived experience can tell you about your experience, but it may not be universal. Besides, his Olympic days were decades ago, and it doesn't take a person of genius or average intelligence to know that boys have an unfair advantage.

It will be amusing to see how Democrats will campaign against him, though.

Caitlyn Jenner Says Biological Boys Who Are Trans Shouldn't Compete in Female Sports by purrvana in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Meh. He's probably slightly better than the Democrat currently in power. I know that's not saying much, but the situation seems increasingly hopeless.

How problematic is accepting a man as a woman or a woman as a man if they pass well enough? And what problems does that bring? by Tea_Or_Coffee in GenderCritical

[–]lefterfield 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How problematic is accepting a man as a woman or a woman as a man if they pass well enough? And what problems does that bring?

There's a problem here of not being able to distinguish between the individual and the social. Do I care particularly, that Timmy transitions to Timessa and looks so much like a woman that I end up using female pronouns? Maybe I can't even tell. No, I don't care. Even if I suspect that Timessa is really a man, 99% it's not going to be worth my time to offend/start a fight with a stranger. If I CAN tell, I won't use their pronouns, though. I'll either call them a man behind their back(if it is socially safe to do so), or refer to them without ever using pronouns. But what if Timessa is my boss, and demands, on condition of employment/promotion/raises, that I must include his pronouns, or my pronouns, in an email? Even if that email isn't directed at them? The issue there is that my beliefs and my understanding - accurate understanding - of science are not being respected. I am being asked to lie, to denounce what I know of the natural world, in order to maintain a financial position. That is offensive and a violation of my rights as a human, and Timessa does not have the right to do that, no more than a boss has the right to demand employees refer to him as My Lord and Savior. What if a law is passed demanding I accept Timessa as female, even if we aren't friends and I want to choose not to associate with him(as I would)? The government is thus favoring Timessa's demands over other people's human rights. That's "problematic" to say the least.

Is it just a matter of opinion that people can not be born in the wrong sex or body?

No. If this were possible rather than being a ridiculous, illogical belief held by lunatics, there would be a way to test for it scientifically. I'm all for scientific/medical investigation into the claims of the trans cult. They're the ones who protest such studies. What do you think that indicates?

Is it hateful, rude and disrespectful to call a man who identifies and passes as a woman a man, or a woman who identifies and passes as a man a woman?

No. It is honest. It can be done in a way that IS rude, but devoid of any context: It is not rude to state one's own observations about reality.

Did accepting a man as a woman or a woman as a man have any effect on what we see trans right activists do now? And what were these effects?

Accepting illogical beliefs as facts in the pursuit of "niceness" has had the effect of pushing this argument further into nonsensical demands. Once it was claimed that sex and gender were different, and we could acknowledge biological sex. Then it was that sex isn't clear cut and exceptions exist. Now many of them claim sex isn't real at all, there's only gender. Ideologues and bullies DO NOT STOP because you give in to their demands. Terrorists cannot be appeased. They will keep demanding for every victory, swearing that they'll stop threatening your jobs, your social connections, your life if you just give in, repeat the cult mantra this time. Just this time. It's rude and hateful not to, and we will destroy you if you don't. We're not asking much. Come on, give in. Just give in, and it'll be all over.

It will never be over. They will destroy all of society, kill every woman on earth before they admit that they were wrong about anything. The only way it ends is for reasonable people to say NO. We will not concede to your unreasonable demands. Not on this one, not on that one, not on ANY of it. NO. NO. HELL NO.