Is there really any room for Gay men to speak up on Gender Critical?

submitted by Kai_Decadence from self.GenderCritical

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[–]PeakingPeachEater 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I frequent both of those subs and notice that, as both you and Kai mentioned that the LGBDtT seem more accepting of HTST even though they are "Drop the T".

Also a side note...In Drop the T, I've began noticing more that they tend to give us bisexuals the short end of the stick, as though we're part of the TQ+.

So, I come here to GC often times when I need a break from the other place.

Sometimes GC is a bit split too---for example, I saw some GC people okay with called Rose of Dawn and Blaire White by female pronouns despite them both being male. Though...I wonder if those people are merely lurkers commenting and not necessarily GC people?

Luckily, most times GC isn't split!

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think that a lot of people on here are new to all of this GC stuff and some are young, so have been indoctrinated at school to go along with the gender madness.

I also think that the mods here on s/gendercritical are very good, because they aren't too strict and allow newbies to explore without being harsh on them. Thanks, mods!!!!

[–]PeakingPeachEater 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah, I see! That makes sense. I remember stumbling upon Gender Critical a couple years back when I was "peaking" but not completely because I was a fan of Blaire White in particular and thought he had common sense and called him a "she".

Then I saw through the veil and REALLY peaked.

Yes, it's nice that the mods aren't too hard on us here(I still consider myself 'new' and learning since I used to lurk and hardky ever did comment)! And we get to see different perspectives. I was a bit confused at first in regards to how GC viewed people like BW, haha.

I see posts by you and MarkTwainic and learn quite a bit about GC! :) You gals are like the OGs here in the GC sub.

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I only lurked on r/gendercritical from the time it had around 5000 (maybe even 3000?) until the end. I do feel like MarkTwaniac and I have perspective, because of our ages we have lived feminism since the 1970s and so know what women are losing today.

I think it's great that there is this forum so that we, and other women who have fought in the trenches, can impart some of our knowledge and experiences to younger women. So I'm very happy that you are here! Bring friends!

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

HSTS were the reason why T was even added in the first place. New "T" means absolutely different thing, same as new Q. So they want to "drop that T". And I am, actually, a friend with a dosen of HSTS who are more than 20 years after transition, however - all of them are GC, so I am fine there.

bisexuals the short end of the stick, as though we're part of the TQ+

It is collateral damage. As they took bisexual "sexuality is fluid" and weaponised it. For lesbians it is because bisexuals saying they are lesbians and then jumping out to sleep with men. And for gays - bisexual men is in general a social stigma.

[–]PeakingPeachEater 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

HSTS were the reason why T was even added in the first place. New "T" means absolutely different thing, same as new Q. So they want to "drop that T". And I am, actually, a friend with a dosen of HSTS who are more than 20 years after transition, however - all of them are GC, so I am fine there.

What are your HSTS friends thoughts on gender critical? How do they and you define being gender critical? Just want to understand better from a different view point.

For me, to be gender critical is to be critical of the entire gender ideology. One cannot simply change his/her sex because he/she feel like the opposite sex. Sex is not a feeling, it's biology. There are no ladybrains/dudebrains. Whenever a trans person is asked "how do you feel like the opposite sex"? They usually list off stereotypes from one or the other gender role(ex. A woman loves cars, technology, sports, etc then she "feels" like a man. Then the reverse of a man loves makeup, fashion, shopping, etc then he "feels" like a woman.)

So...if a HSTS male tells me to call him a woman but claims to be gendercritical, then that's hypocritical. But if the HSTS male is okay being called a man...then he's most likely not trans at all and not HSTS but just a gender non-conforming man.

I detransitioned YEARS ago and thought I was same-sex attracted ONLY during that time. At the time, I wish I would be reborn a boy, hated the skin I was in and wish could rip it off, didn't like being forced into the stereotypical gender role set for girls/woman and wanted to seem "normal" by becoming a boy(which by the gender idealogy would make me "straight" if I liked girls and transitioned to a boy).

It is collateral damage. As they took bisexual "sexuality is fluid" and weaponised it. For lesbians it is because bisexuals saying they are lesbians and then jumping out to sleep with men. And for gays - bisexual men is in general a social stigma.

Yeah, it sucks that the TRAs did that to our sexuality...Bisexuals aren't commonly attracted to trans(mixed sex characteristics) unless they are the small percentage of trans inclusive bisexuals(or trans exclusive bisexuals).

I don't understand the sleeping part. We always get stereotyped for leaving a straight or gay relationship for the same/opposite sex and that we're untrustworthy cheaters. But...that happens in any relationship---the gay person or straight person might be the one to leave instead.

Yeah...Most times people say that bisexual men are secretly gay so they get the reverse treatment. Most straight women don't want to be with them for that reason.

Regardless, people can date who they want to. If they don't want to date a bisexual, that's completely fine. It's understandable if they feel they just can't relate to bisexuals because each of us(heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals) have different experiences and some of us prefer to be with others who are understanding of where we're coming from and can relate. It's just the stereotypes that are terrible.

I'm multi-racial/mixed race and people have told me specifically things such as "No offense, but I don't find XYZ nor ABC race attracted at all. They're at the bottom of the totem pole. I prefer white people instead, they're the most attractive"---said to me by a former friend who's eastern asian and happens to be gay. We were just having a casual converasation talking about who we like(preference wise, ex. Sporty, blue eyes, funny, etc) and he just had to bring that up and say it like that...My straight friends have commented on my race too but always added "but you're not like the rest of them"--whatever that means...

Edit: I just meant that bisexuals get treated like the above example. We get talked down on and are expected to take it...

So, that's where I'm coming from.

[–]MezozoicGay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So...if a HSTS male tells me to call him a woman but claims to be gendercritical, then that's hypocritical. But if the HSTS male is okay being called a man...then he's most likely not trans at all and not HSTS but just a gender non-conforming man.

Depends on a person. Most just want to be a woman, and trying to be a woman (unlike AGP transgenders without surgeries), almost all of them are married on a man, and transitioned before starting dating with them, mostly married on bisexual men, sometimes on gay men, one is married on straight man, but that man is delusional and tries to ignore the past of his "wife". They are all 20+ years after surgeries. Some become transsexuals because of social pressure on being gay (I think in reality majority did, as dysphoria is mostly caused by social pressure, and almost always happening to men, especially gay men).

Their gender critical views are that they would like to remove the gender all together and do not believe that it is something that should be promoted by TRA or anyone. I think they are just regreting that gender stereotypes made them what they are, at least for most of them. They are called women by a similar to current UK Equality Act in our country - after living 3-5 years "as woman in society", after being long on hormones, after bottom surgery, "passing enough" and big commitment - only then in legal documents sex is changed, however in medical documents sex is not changed for obvious reasons (different pills and injections have different effects on bodies, and some pills are fine for men, but bad for women because of reproductive system). They are still calling themself a woman legally, but agreeing that they are males, and agreeing it is hypocritical, however, our language is not providing other options and our laws working like that. None of them believing in "feeling" as opposite sex as well, and no one of them is "feeling" as the opposite sex or "understanding" opposite sex, they just "want" to be one. In /s/GCdebatesQT moderator is GC transsexual with similar views, but less GC than my friends, so you can ask him (better use "her" there or no pronouns) in details. That person seems to be accepting that this is harming women, and mostly want to help women - and started being like that only because of TRA claims and gender ideology becoming prominent. I think that saidit administrator is transwoman as well, but very pro free speech and diversity of opinions, and seems to not like TRA much, but okay with GC.

I don't understand the sleeping part. We always get stereotyped for leaving a straight or gay relationship for the same/opposite sex and that we're untrustworthy cheaters. But...that happens in any relationship---the gay person or straight person might be the one to leave instead.

As far as I know, it happens too often with lesbians - woman is dating with man or married on a man, but is allowed to sleep with other women by her man "as sex without penis is not real sex, and it is sexy", so they are saying they are single and lesbian, going on a date with woman, and then saying "sorry, we can't continue, it was all good, but I am back to my boyfriend". I am not sure if it is common experience, but most lesbians I know had such experience. And, I think, it has to do with porn too, as "lesbian" tag is most popular in the world, but it is often showing bisexual women (often even just straight) having sex and then they are joined by a man.

And "bisexual" is more "sexy", so some straight women are saying they are bisexual or lesbian to access men. Sexualization of women is forcing women to do crazy stuff.

My lesbian friend was complaining me about dating apps too, that there often either transwomen or "m+f bisexual couple searching lesbian for threesome" and very rarely actually lesbians to be found.

Obviously it is not always the case, most likely it is most often not the case, but it happens enough to create such prejudice towards bisexual women.

Yeah...Most times people say that bisexual men are secretly gay so they get the reverse treatment. Most straight women don't want to be with them for that reason.

Not just that. Bisexual men in general are seen like not manly enough and not gay enough at same time, and as some abomination and "it is not suiting man to be indecisive", so no one want to have anything with them.

[–]PeakingPeachEater 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I see where you are coming from now. I had a discussion with others about gender critical trans persons.

They mentioned that trans can be gender critical if, for example they know and admit they are born their sex.

So taking a trans male for example, if he refer to himself as a "transwoman" to differentiate from biological woman, and also admits he was born male, he is gender critical, though not necessarily a feminist gender critical.

What confused me was the pronouns which is where I was iffy. If they know they are male, but use female pronouns, isn't that feeding into it? But someone mentioned yeah it does bite BUT there are languages that don't even have gendered pronouns or they simply ommit he/she pronouns like Japanese.

So that made sense too...Just different degrees of gender critical.

Also that sucks that your friends were pressured to transition...I detransitioned but did not go through with surgery/hormones. I honestly think the TRA movement preys on people in vulnerable positions like us(your friends & myself)---because we want to be seen as "normal". When I was deciding to transition, I thought I was exclusively attracted to the same sex, so in a sense, if I became a "boy" that would make me "straight".

It's pretty gross how some people claim to be trans or lesbian to sleep with men. And it does suck that there are some bisexual woman who fetishize lesbians...One of my coworkers claims to be pansexual---but that's just a fancy term for bisexual---she's had real relationships with men and sleep around mostly with women and only had 1 real relationship with a woman but generally...just likes to sleep with them, her words not mine.

I think she may be a bit of a political bisexual---when she's (white american lady) mad at the "EVIL WHITE MEN!@!+#!" she says she prefers women...(she's engaged to a white man right now tho lol).

I really wish there were more visibility for bi men. Straight women don't treat them good(even on media, they make jokes about bi men being gay and "gross"). That sucks that they are getting crap from all sides around.

Edit: spelling

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I was deciding to transition, I thought I was exclusively attracted to the same sex, so in a sense, if I became a "boy" that would make me "straight".

That reminds me in childhood, there everywhere was "boys are liking girls and girls are liking boys". I liked boys, so in my child's head I was thinking "if girls are liking boys and I am liking boys - I am a girl". So I had this dysphoria for around a year in pretty heavy state and then around two years more in less heavy state. I was around 8-11 years old during that time.

she's had real relationships with men and sleep around mostly with women and only had 1 real relationship with a woman but generally...just likes to sleep with them, her words not mine.

I've heard that multiple time, about women who are dating exclusively men, but going to sleep with women for "real orgasms".