all 27 comments

[–]MarkTwainiac 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're not alone. At all. Many of us who've been lifelong feminists and who've always been "left" and "progressive" share your dismay. For the past 10 or so years since I started closely following the current transgender craze and looking into it deeply, I personally have often thought I am going out of my effin' mind. I have lost many nights of sleep over it.

A good source to check out is Feminism chat on Mumsnet. Tons of resources and lots of women who think/feel just like you. Though it's a UK-based site, there are women from various countries there - and there's lots of general discussions that are applicable to what's going on in myriad countries.

There are also numerous long-running threads there by/about "transwidows" that go into detail about family situations like the one your FIL has created. First thread here:


Tons of great sources out there. You might want to start with


[–]tuesday 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

haha I posted so similar! That break it down for me thread is so excellent for those just getting started.

[–]our_team_is_winning 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

People need to stop enabling trans to "keep the peace" --esp when the LARPer is as odious as you described this man. Regarding Harris: Would you really vote for someone JUST because of their sex? Isn't that sexist? It's my understanding that Harris kept a lot of young black men locked up excessively long over drug offenses and that she is pro-trans lobby. She also, I read, called Biden a racist and said she believed the women who accused him of sexual assault. Now she's suddenly his buddy? I don't trust that woman. "Woke" has infected feminism. "Woke" has poisoned the world. I would give every member of your family a copy of the Emperor's New Clothes and ask if you could have a family discussion about it. They might disown you. It's like being labeled a "supressive person" in Scientology I guess. "Woke" is a cult and its members are allowing men in lipstick to push women out of women's places. This is not okay.

[–]mangosplums 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I will definitely be voting for Biden. If we allow Trump to have another 4 years our country will become fascist. That’s not hyperbole, that’s what he wants to turn it into. He also wants to destroy our ability to vote and is already attempting to do so. If he wins again, I think voting in this country will basically be over.

What is the details of the ERA? As much as the trans stuff worries me, it doesn’t eclipse the other worries I have about Trump and many other things going on in the country, so I’m not going to let a politician’s stance on trans issues affect my vote much.

[–]BEB 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's not the Democrats' stance on trans issue that bothers GC feminists, it's their stance on women's rights as it relates to trans activists' demands.

I'm guessing almost every GC feminist agrees that trans should have the same civil rights as everyone else, but they can't have women's hard-won rights.

The Democrats, from the local to the federal level, are handing women's rights, women's sex-segregated spaces and women's sports, to men who claim to be women.

If Biden wins, and the Democrats take over the Senate, then they will make the Equality Act into law and women's rights, women's sex-segregated spaces and women's sports will be gone.

Women will cease to exist as a distinct legal category and many of the laws written for women on the basis of sex will be thrown into limbo.

So we have the choice of a party, the Republicans, that is trying to eradicate Social Security and Medicare, clean water/ clean air, funding for education, the middle and working classes, health care, food safety standards and all sorts of other basic needs.

And a president who shows zero respect for the Constitution and the rule of law, wants to be a dictator and acts like one, is wildly unstable and showing signs of dementia, might start WW III deliberately or by accident...

Or the Democrats, who might deliberately start WW III and will definitely make women into second class citizens without even a legal way to define ourselves.

Really screwed up country, we Americans have...

[–]jet199 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

"If we allow Trump to have another 4 years our country will become fascist. That’s not hyperbole, that’s what he wants to turn it into."

You're right it's not hyperbole, it's outright delusion. You'd have to completely change the definition of the word "fascist" to make that work. Words mean things, you know.

FFS Americans have the most boring politics and they have to pretend like the world is ending any time the other millionaire who has one slightly different policy their preferred millionaire gets voted in.

[–]jelliknight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I dont know if it would become fascist, but it sure looks like it's circling the drain. I'm not american, just watching from the outside. Right now you've got a pandemic in a nation with overpriced privatized healthcare and no sick leave for most people, AND your politicians are doing almost nothing about it. Thousands have died. It will be millions soon. Your population is really dumb, they're not even able to understand the threat they're facing, let alone take action. And during this, you have mass rioting because your police force has no accountability and are responding to it with even more violence and less accountability, while your citizens are armed to the teeth. Civil wars have begun over less.

How do the next few years go, regardless of who gets elected? The pandemic isn't going to go away. It's not just going to burn itself out before it reaches herd immunity at 80+% (and even then immunity may be temporary) and we're not going to come up with a cure any time soon. The virus seems to be killing 2 to 6% of everyone who catches it, and so far only about 1.5% of the US population are confirmed to have caught it. Best case scenario, without a miracle, you're looking at several years of massive economic upheaval and deaths along with a citizenship that is almost in open war with the police. It's not going to take much for the whole think to come tumbling down.

[–]BEB 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think viewed from the outside during these latest events, our police look out of control, but police departments are under local control, so the bad eggs are tarnishing all police even though some police forces are actually well-run.

And, in actuality, Americans are not in open war with police, that's just our sensationalistic media being sensationalistic. Most Americans, including black Americans, support the police. And I think that the rioting will actually end up hurting the Democrats' chances because it's being associated with BLM, even though it shouldn't be.

There are also a lot of outside influences destabilizing US society, but I won't go into that here because I think it's too off-topic.

As to the rest, I think that the US is in for some very tough times, and I think part of the problem is that politicians have almost stopped listening to their constituents and only listen to lobbyists.

Take trans demands activism: If the issue were explained properly to Americans, almost all but the 20-year-old gender studies majors would understand the conflict with women's rights and would side with women.

Even though many of our congresspeople are dumb as posts, they, or someone on their staff, must also realize that trans demands activism sets women's rights back 50 years or so, and would know that it will be hugely unpopular once Americans wake up.

They don't care: our representatives are receiving huge $$$ from Trans, Inc., and Trans, Inc. has done an amazing job pre-silencing criticism by pumping out pro-trans propaganda on all fronts, hijacking the LGB movement, while making "transphobia" a slur before most people had even considered the issue.

Americans are extremely good at burying our heads in the sand. I think this summer is the lull before the storm, and I don't think that anyone can predict what is going to happen. There could be violence, there could be a lot of unrest, but I doubt civil war because Americans are too lazy and too caught up in their own worlds.

No matter what, I don't think that the immediate future is going to be good for women. Neither party has our back.

[–]yishengqingwa666 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I will not be voting for either rapist. At least Trump knows that women are real and not a feeling in a mans' head. I believe he will be re-elected, due to Democrats insistence on catering to the misogynist, FASCIST trans cult. THEY are the fascists.

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Equal Rights Amendment and the Equality Act are different things.

It's the Equality Act that screws women (and gay men) by changing the legal definition of "sex" to include "gender identity."

The Equality Act has passed the US House of Representatives with every Democrat voting in favor, and is now in the Senate with every Democratic Senator supporting it. Joe Biden has called the Equality Act his number one legislative priority.

I'm going to make a separate post about the Equality Act because I'm tired of typing the same thing in every thread, so please do read the post when I make it.

Also, is a great place for a transgender lobby/activism overview.

Tomorrow, I will type more about how I broached the trans activism topic with Progressive friends, which might help you do the same. Best of luck and know that you have our support!

[–]lairacunda 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Skip Feminine Mystique.

Try something from these links instead.

You can change the language to English on the last one. You'll probably get a auto-translate button. Enjoy.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You might want to cut contact with that FIL. Sounds truly deranged and dangerous to me.

[–]Realwoman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not always possible unless she divorces her husband but that's a drastic step.

[–]YoutiaoLover 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or if her SO is willing to cut contact. I wonder if her SO calling her TERF because lack of understanding and can be communicated with, or is mentally shackled by his abusive dad, or just a plain ol' jerk.

[–]firebird 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not American, so I definitely won't be able to help you out with USA related stuff, but maybe I could help out with other stuff?

I've been collecting links and information about feminism and just women's related stuff in general for a while now, and recently also started to do the same for trans related issues, so that's something I could share with you if you want. Just let me know if you're looking for something specific and I'll see what I can find.

If you'd be interested to join the conversation on Twitter I could recommend some people to follow just to start you off. You could also join Ovarit. I think there's also a community on Ruqqus but I haven't checked that one in a while.

And I'm willing to just talk about things too. It's fine to feel overwhelmed about this and unsure what to do. I felt like that for a good while too. Still do sometimes. Just know that you're not alone, and if you need to take a step back and have some space and time, it's OK to do so.

[–]jelliknight 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

-I am so confused about the bathroom issue. I want women to feel safe especially those that have been victims of violence. But I really REALLY do not want to discriminate anyone

Everyone deserves to feel safe. Women are safe in a single sex change room, but transgender males are NOT safer in a mixed sex change room than a male only one. It's not the presence of women that makes it safe, it's the absence of men. Transgender males are men and present exactly the same risk to women and other transgender males. To keep everyone safe the simple answer is to add a few single stalls. Transgender males don't want that, because it's NOT about safety.

Guys I just do not know what to do here.

Breathe. They used to burn us. Yes, we're playing whack-a-mole with sexism and yes every time we defeat is somewhere there's a backlash somewhere else, and no, we're never going to be able to rest and stop fighting. And yet, we are making progress, and we will continue to do so.

It's getting really really hard. I'm finding myself getting more and more angry at genderists who want to pat themselves on the back for being woke while throwing our rights on the bonfire. I try to remember that they're wrong for the right reasons, they're trying to be 'good' they're just not thinking it through and that means there's potential for change. I try to focus on what I'm FOR rather than what I'm against because i believe we give our power to what we focus on, but man oh man it's getting hard with all this shit coming thick and fast.

I guess unfortunately my main response is "Yep." We all feel that same stuff, you're not alone. I don't know if that's comforting or horrifying to know but welcome to the club i guess. I don't even know if self educating is useful - even when we are organised and obviously correct (people can't change sex, women need single sex spaces) we still aren't listened to.

We can't control anyone else, we can't control the nation or the world, we only control our own actions. You can't control your husband or his family, only yourself. You only need to focus on what actions you are comfortable with, regardless of the outcome. For me, that means speaking up when i know something's wrong, calling and e-mailing politicians, and trying not to over-educate and get overwhelmed. That's really the most I can do.

Hot tip on your FIL: He sounds like a narcissist who's got his family trained. You see this dynamic a lot. People will tell you "Just go along with it, you don't want to upset him and cause a scene." They will try to bully you because they see you as a softer target. You can be made to comply, but he can't. It's easier for them to bully you into doing what he wants than it is to deal with his tantrums. The solution: Out crazy him. Be the one who creates a scene. Pretty soon they'll be saying to him "Just do it, you know what she's like, we'll hear about it all day otherwise" When i say "out crazy him" i really just mean be more stubborn and be willing to take it to extremes. It'll either work or it'll get you uninvited from everything, so win-win

[–]StupidHappyPancakes 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with everything you said except for the advice to "out crazy" the dangerous narcissist. That won't work and could even make the situation a million times WORSE, because narcissists are not normal people and they don't give a damn about a big fuss being caused; in fact, they totally get off on conflict. And us non-narcissists actually have empathy and principles, so we can never ever win the narcissist's games because they will engage in every form of immoral and sadistic behavior that it takes to subdue anyone who DARES to stand up for themselves. If the OP started going toe-to-toe with her FIL, I have no doubt that FIL would then put all his efforts into breaking up OP's marriage or turning her kids (if she has any) against her. There is nothing so low that they won't sink to it.

Experts on narcissists today are largely in agreement that the best strategy for interacting with a narcissist when you are forced to do so is to utilize the so-called "Gray Rock Technique." It's about making yourself as dull, disinterested, and nonconfrontational as possible. You make yourself a TERRIBLE conversation partner to the narcissist by not speaking much and most importantly, barely reacting to what THEY say, even as they WILL try harder and harder to push your buttons. You want the narcissist to realize he's not going to get any narcissistic supply from you, that although you won't argue with him, you will only take ACTIONS if it suits your mood, and you will steadfastly refuse to get riled up and dragged into drama no matter what shit he flings at you.

[–]tuesday 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm a big fan of mumsnet. Although I strongly suggest you do NOT post anything over there, as the rules for posting when you are gendercritical, change hourly. It's super easy to get banned. And the bans are life long. So just read. Lots of smart sensible women.

And then post here :-)

(well, I will also say that with the exception of a few, probably the most articulate women have already been banned there. But it's still definitely a site worth reading.)

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm one of the banned ones.

[–]Heteronormativefuckt 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Suburban women are calling you a bigit for being radfem? That's outrageous. Both of my sister's are lesbians and I peaked both of them within 2 conversations. I'm actually trying to temper them from "hating" the trans community. I have to keep explaining it's the TRA's, which includes a lot of women.

[–]Heteronormativefuckt 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

PS I'm voting for Biden because I'm worried that if I have to deal with Trump for one more year I might actually kill myself. We're in the greatest depression thus country has ever seen. Just today was the highest corona infections since may. We need actual leaders. I'm not a single issue voter, I look at the whole picture. And that's saying that a vote for not-Biden will be a vote for trump

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow... uh huh.

[–]MonstrousRegiment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gotta vote for Biden because Trump is manifestly unfit and dangerous in every way.

And pay attention to BEB on the Equality Act and be relentless with your Democratic rep and senators, if any, on that subject!

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks, but we need to not just lobby our federal representatives: city and state governments, as well as corporations and schools, etc., are passing laws and changing rules that destroy women's rights, sex-segregated spaces and sports.

So try to be aware of what's happening on the local level too and be relentless in contacting your local representatives too.

Also, if you see a corporation, like THE BODY SHOP or LUSH or THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY, spout gender nonsense, get in their faces too. Call customer service if you don't have time to write an email.

[–]SilenceThem_Consume 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've already been called a TERF by my SO and redditors on other subreddits.

The average IQ of reddit has been reduced since they began banning all dissenting speech. Now, merely questioning the trans mob will get you put on some list.

as a feminist

The root of this word means female, so you still are likely a feminist ;)

really wants to see a woman in office. But I know next to nothing about Kamala Harris

Hilary clinton was anti gay for 30+ years. How often has your media talked about that?

I want women to feel safe

Then we should keep our bathrooms for genders and not identities?

Build up conversations with other truefeminists. Twitter and reddit are bad places for honest discussions.

My SO's friend circles are cozy suburban liberals that spout off john oliver talking points without any regard to research and fact. When I scratch below the surface on any trans issues I am surprised to find that they never think about transwomen in sports or that there are indeed cases of abuse of privileges from transwomen. How can I become more well versed when speaking on these subjects

As time wears on, I am more and more tired of these Lionels. Liberals in Outward Names only. Their intellect ehnds where OliVer/Maddow/And Colbert begin; they justify endless wars by repeating the mainstream talking points. lesser evil lesser evil lesser evil

Two administrations of lesser evil has given us George Bush 2.0. In 2008 the democrats would HATE what biden stands for.

[–]mevesii 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not in the US, so I can't say what kinds of IRL activism you could get into, but since you asked about Feminine Mystique: I haven't yet read that one, but I can recommend Woman Hating by Andrea Dwokin as a radical feminism starting point (although it should be read with a critical eye- there are a few questionable points there, though it's overall good). Regarding transgenderism, I strongly recommend the anthology Female Erasure edited by Ruth Barrett.

[–]meranii 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

However you start informing yourself about feminism and politics will serve you well, start off with general knowledge/a historical overview (wiki if you must), maybe a book about the history of feminism worldwide, etc. For more in detail stuff you've already been provided fantastic recs in this post, I see. :-)

The most pressing thing that I see weighing on you is your FIL basically sexually harassing you and the lack of support from your partner. You absolutely should not be around that man, reject your SO's attempts to "keep the peace" or for you to meet for any reason (miss family get togethers if you must) and get him into therapy for childhood abuse. My father was/is abusive and I cut all contact with him, despite my mother always badgering me to "just get along with him". You may love someone and they may love you, but you cannot let yourself be manipulated into dangerous (for your mental or physical health) situations.