all 43 comments

[–]Sun_bear 23 insightful - 5 fun23 insightful - 4 fun24 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

With us banned from Reddit they can now say whatever they like about us and people can't check!

We're far-right, bio-essentialists who wish violence and death upon trans people, don't you know!

[–]Barber_Acrobatic 14 insightful - 13 fun14 insightful - 12 fun15 insightful - 13 fun -  (2 children)

I also heard we eat the young of cats and have seven nipples

[–]InvisibleWoman 8 insightful - 10 fun8 insightful - 9 fun9 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

Anyone feel like dancing naked in the forest tonight? I gotta cast some ill wishes.

[–]Sun_bear 5 insightful - 8 fun5 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

Once the woke crowd tries my recipe for cat-young pie, there's no going back. Serve with weaponised-tear gravy!

[–]Rationalmind 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, might as well point out our hobbies include burning our bras too. /s

[–]Coconaut 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I don't even understand what bio-essentialists means. Is it an insult? does it mean that a woman has XX chromosomes and was born with a vagina? if so, sign me up.

[–]Sun_bear 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here's a fantastic post from r/GC that explains bio-essentialism:

RESOURCES I'm seeing a lot of posts all over Reddit attempting to explain what gender critical feminists actually believe, and a lot of them are completely wrong. This is a post addressed to newcomers who are visiting this sub to figure out what gender critical feminism is all about.The first thing to get out of the way is this: no, we don't believe that you MUST have periods to be a woman. I've seen so many posts saying "JK Rowling is menopausal and doesn't have periods, so by her definition she wouldn't be a woman!" or "not every woman has a period, some women don't have uteruses!" She isn't saying that at all. Having a period is not a necessary condition for being a woman, but it is a sufficient condition. It's sufficient in the sense that if you experience menstruation then that automatically puts you in the woman category (or at the very least it puts you in the female category). But it's not it's not necessary that you must be capable of menstruation in order to be put into the woman category. In any case, what Rowling was upset about was female erasure. It is, quite frankly, deeply disturbing and insulting for many women to be called 'menstruators' or 'period havers'. This , we feel, reduces us to a biological function. The 'bloody good period' charity once referred to women as 'bleeders', and not only does this not make any sense (men can bleed too!) it is also degrading. 'Bleeders' sounds like a dehumanising slur. Notice there's a pattern here - when have you ever heard males been referred to as 'ejaculators' or 'sperm producers'? I'm going to try to debunk two other claims I've seen floating around that are just bollocks. The first is that gender critical feminists conflate sex with gender. The second is that we are biological essentialists. Both of these claims are false, and both particularly sting because a lot of gender critical feminists of the first and second wave of feminism actually railed against these concepts in the first place. So, back to basics. Sex is biological. Sex refers to the two reproductive roles - male and female. Males produce small mobile gametes, sperm. Females produce the large immobile gametes, eggs. Sex is not a social construct. It is found all across nature. Plants have sexes. Animals have sexes. Gender is a social construct, and is not the same thing as sex. This was recognised by Mary Wollstonecraft in the 18th century, but was really emphasised by the second wave. Gender is social norms of femininity and masculinity. Gender are roles, behaviours, stereotypes, and expectations placed on human beings according to their sex. Male humans are supposed to live up to masculine gender expectations. Female humans are supposed to live up to the feminine gender expectations. Boys are supposed to like violent sports, getting angry, not crying, not eating salad, the colour blue, being dominant and in control, being logical. Women are supposed to like kittens, being sensitive and empathetic, watching their weight, pink, babies, being a homemaker. Women are human females who have the feminine gender imposed on them. And men are human males who have the masculine gender imposed on them. And gender also operates as a hierarchy. Femininity is inferior to masculinity. Feminists pointed out there was nothing natural about gender. Women do not naturally want to be nothing more than baby makers, who cry and like pink glitter, who only care about adornment and home making. This is all a social construct. Gender operates as a constrictive trap, forcing women into one 'natural' lifestyle.A big project of the second wave was to point out the artificiality of gender roles, and to break women out of them. There is no one way to look like a woman. Women can wear makeup, have short hair, wear whatever they like. There should be no such thing as masculine and feminine interests - why shouldn't a man enjoy knitting? Why does that have to mean he's somehow less of a man, or a sissy? And why shouldn't a woman enjoy car racing? Why are we so obsessed with gendering everything, from clothing, to food, to hobbies, to pets, to cars? Second wave feminists established that just because someone is female doesn't mean they are, or should be, girly. Women do not naturally behave, or think, in a particular way. Gender critical feminists have always held fast to this idea that there is no necessary connection between sex and gender roles. If I tell you I have blue eyes, can you infer anything at all about what my tastes are from that information alone? What is my career? My hobbies? My interests? My behaviour? My aspirations? My overall appearance? No -of course not. That is because we don't imbue having blue eyes with any significance. Blue eyes has no connection to your personality or your cognitive capacities. Well, that's what gender critical feminists think about sex. If I tell you a person is female, that doesn't necessarily tell you anything about her hobbies or interests. At most it tells you she's a human who is very likely to experience the incidents of being female - she is likely to be capable of menstruating. She is likely to be capable of getting pregnant. Beyond those basic facts of biology, though, females are people and can have a wide range of behaviours and appearances. There is no 'right' way to be a woman. Literally the only precondition is that you be female. That's it. Female biology is different from male bioloogy, and due to us living in a sexist society is often pathologised and overlooked. For example, menstruation has been coded as 'unclean' and impure - gender stereotypes are interposed on top of natural biological functions. So what Rowling was trying to emphasise was that for women our sex is deeply important to us. It's a core part of our experience going through the world. We are stigmatised for having periods, stigmatised for going on contraception, stigmatised for abortions, stigmatised for giving birth (too many or too few babies). And so there are important political concerns that only apply to those with female bodies. Also, female bodies are often a locus of state control. The state will try to control women by controlling their bodies (see abortion legislation, forced sterilisation,) What that means is even if you accept that trans women are 'women' (whatever women means) there must still be room for a distinctive female rights movement. Some dude on the Reddit front page was given hundreds of awards for blithely saying "no one is saying sex isn't real - we are just saying that sex isn't important." With no respect, dude, it's just not your place to say that. Women are pointing out that sex IS important to them - women are dying because they are taking drugs that have only been tested on male bodies. Men can't handwave that away with claims that 'sex isn't important'. WE are telling YOU that it is. It's important. It's not bigoted for women to campaign for their sex based rights. Biological essentialism is related to all this. Biological essentialism is the view that sex roles are natural. BECAUSE I am female it is therefore natural for me to like babies, be more emotional, and to desire to go shopping. But as I already covered, this view was contested by second wave feminists. On average, women may enjoy makeup more than men. They may be more caring and nurturing, They. may be less into train and plane spotting. But none of this is natural. Women aren't born this way. There is no natural connection between women being female and women liking makeup. There's no biologically essential way for women to be. You may notice that people on Reddit just don't seem to really get what biological essentialism means. Biological essentialism has nothing to do with saying 'women have female bodies.' It's not 'essentialist' to say that women are female. That's just part of the definition of woman. Biological essentialism is the claim that because someone is a woman they have to behave or think in a particular way. In actual fact, many commenters will support trans theory using biological essentialism. One male commenter bravely attempted to define women - " a woman is someone who conforms to our societies expectations of femininity - they dress in a feminine way, think in a feminine way, have feminine interests and so on." This is pure essentialism. Gender critical feminists completely deny that there is any such thing as 'feminine' thoughts. What on earth is a 'feminine' way of thinking? If you say that women are more ditzy, creative, and less logical - isn't that just super sexist? And what's a 'feminine' interest? Are we really back to the bad old days of saying you are less of a woman if you enjoy dirt bike racing? Are you less of a man if you film makeup tutorials? On this definition I would simply fail to be a woman. I wear pants. I don't have typical feminine interests. I work in a male dominated career. I find this definition really sexist - it says that women have to think and act, and look a certain way in order to be women. they have to conform to femininity. But the definition that a woman is an adult human female is not biologically essentialist because all it tells you is that women have female bodies. That's it. Women can look and act in any way they like. To recap and clarify - gender critical feminists are against biological essentialism. And they do not think that sex and gender are the same thing!

[–]Lucretia 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The TRAs are the biological essentialists, as they describe behavioural qualities as being rooted in natal physicality.

[–]Stranger 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

They're repulsive. One lie I saw being paraded around was that the sub was dedicated to doxxing trans people.

[–]Coconaut 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

total nonsense. the mods bent over backward to avoid even the appearance of doxxing, including that clown JY.

[–]womenopausal 13 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Curious. What was I doing for several hours a day for the past year? I must have been in some kind of fugue state in which I imagined banning a bunch of u/kawaiinekochan_69s who just swung by to say Fuck Terfs

[–]fuckingsealions[S] 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

I think you were imaginary, like my girl brain. 😄

[–]womenopausal 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

(disappears in a puff of logic)

[–]CaliforniGinger 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Oh good grief. Do these evil idiots not realize just how determined such dishonest attacks make their victims?

[–]fuckingsealions[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's confusing because if I go in through a normal, non amp address you get the normal banning message. I don't know if this is a Google problem or a reddit problem.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Google is messed up. Look up "violence against women" and trans-articles come up as the first hits.

[–]Spikygrasspod 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

I have a serious question. I wandered over to r/conservative, because this entire TRA-GC thing has made me realise I need to go directly to the source and not rely on second hand accounts of anyone. I wanted to see what they say to one another.

Anyway. Someone in that sub shared a list of links (maybe 10-15 or so) to posts and comments in GC that were calling for or supporting selective abortion of male foetuses. I NEVER saw anything like that in GC during my time there. What is going on? Why is the GC I saw so different from the GC other people visited? I would love some help understanding this. Is this just extreme stuff that got reported and deleted? Please tell me that sex selective abortion is not widely supported here.

[–]fuckingsealions[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I never saw it either. No shade, but that sounds more like blackpill. I'm not doubting you. I know it's possible to complete fabricate threads.

[–]Smurfette 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, it was definitely talked about on blackpill. I never made that exact statement, but I would say “don’t breed your oppressor”. I’m childfree and wouldn’t want to bring a daughter into this hellhole of a world, either, as it would be cruel.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, it was definitely talked about on blackpill. I never made that exact statement, but I would say “don’t breed your oppressor”.

When you consider how misogynistic so many other subreddits are, and how many women have died from incel attacks, I can only say "who cares"?

[–]Spikygrasspod 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I see. I only visited blackpill briefly and decided it was too grim for me. However, I appreciate you sharing your position.

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm glad you didn't see that sort of thing, either. It's not my report, it's someone else's collection of links, and I have no idea how seriously to take it. Is it possible to fabricate threads? I have suspected that trolls might post things to make us look bad, but I don't really know how common that is. I'm not the most familiar with reddit, so any help understanding this would be appreciated.

[–]fuckingsealions[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've done goofy shit in Photoshop 10+ years ago to razz people in old skool pre-reddit forums (to tease, not to take down). You take a thread from another sub to get the font right, make it look like it has a GC heading, etc. Maybe people were posting those things to snap a screenshot and discredit us. It's a very silly use of time but some of us are in quarantine. I'm brushing up on a language I used to study, other people are doxxing feminists, potato potahto

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh dear. I guess it goes to show that in order to understand any movement, one should really read both the accepted texts, the well known figures, and the general chatter in their own places, and not rely on extracts compiled by others.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even if there were a few threads like that, it's not as if that consisted of the majority of posters-- and the porn subreddits are far more hateful and anti-female than GC was ever "anti-male".

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your impression. I though it might be some but not most. Yes, I am sure you're right about the anti female subs.

[–]FlickingMarvellous 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There was one particular post that got a bit weird, iirc. There was a post here a couple of days ago asking the same question, and the mods gave their version of what happened: have a look back for it. (Sorry, I’d go and find it for you but seddit on mobile browser is sub-optimal.)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I wouldn't be surprised if some trolls (supported by reddit admins) purposely put up crazy posts to "justify" taking our subs down. When I was moderating two different subs (not GC), it was impossible to take down every troll post immediately as I work and have a life. I'm sure crazy posts fell through the cracks.

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That makes sense. It also means it's unfair to take down a sub because of a few bad posts--surely banning subs would only be justified if the purpose of the sub is harmful in itself, or if harmful content is ubiquitous or very badly modded.

[–]Takseen 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The thread was real, there's links to an archived version of it further down in the replies here, but as a regular reader I feel that it wasn't typical of GC content.

[–]Spikygrasspod 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Real but not typical. That's good to know, thank you.

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I think you are suffering from a little conformation bias.

I saw a fair few posts on GC of women saying they would abort a male fetus and they were upvoted and any comments which disagreed were down voted to oblivion. Not only that but on both GC and pinkpill you'd see comments under unrelated posts saying stuff like "and this is why I'll never be ashamed to say I'd abort a male fetus. It makes me mad how they all got pissed off when that post got shared that time. We were right." Then you have other separatist posts on pp and bp saying "women can't moan about how men treat them when they continue to house them in their wombs and increase the population of rapists."

I really don't think you could of missed all this stuff unless you were being purposely blind to it.

There is a big problem with separatists trying to create a purity spiral which will exclude most women and turn GC into a ideological cult. Their stuff doesn't get either downvoted or reported because people just upvote on "men bad" most of the time.

[–]DarthVelma 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Given the millions of missing women and girls in this world due to aborting female fetuses, female infanticide, and femicide generally that most people don't seem to give one tiny shit about...I don't see why a handful of radical feminists not wanting to have male children is treated like the world's greatest crime.

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think there are two things here. Firstly, someone personally not wanting a child of a certain sex (I think this is sexism, and is somewhat morally objectionable, but I also think that bodily autonomy simply trumps other values in this case). This isn't a crime, though it certainly does give fuel to people who say feminists hate men. I daresay they would say this regardless of what we write about, however.

The second thing is calling for, attempting, or legislating in a way that allows for a systematic reduction of one sex. The latter seems relevantly similar to genocide, in my view. I do consider it a major moral outrage this this is happening to girls in some parts of the world, and I would strenuously object to any suggestions that the same thing be done to boys.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even if some GC people are hardcore, I don't see them as nearly as vitriolic as the misogynistic set. I have yet to hear about a GC woman going on a shooting spree in a men's gym.

[–]Spikygrasspod 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We do seem to be held to a higher standard, don't we? And I do suspect there are some people who go looking for the most radical views, then use these to characterise all of us.

[–]Moonwalker777 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes I do remember seeing this from time to time. I think that it’s a classy case of fighting fire with fire, but MRA’s were making it seem like this was what the sub was centred around

[–]Spikygrasspod 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am hardly being purposefully blind, I came here to ask. I think it's more likely you were on GC for longer than me.

The tendency toward ideological conformity is a good reason to get off the internet every once in a while, I guess.

[–]Cass 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't remember if I ever saw something like that personally, but I definitely saw plenty of "all men are rapists/pedos". Also shoeonhead has a video about it and I don't think she fabricated it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOZ5ZwhduXU&t=321s

Edit: here is the archived link she reads from: https://web.archive.org/web/20190810084539/https://old.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/co6mxp/i_dont_want_a_baby_boy/?sort=controversial if it was trolls brigading the upvotes wouldn't look like that. Also troll posts would be removed.

[–]Spikygrasspod 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. The link is to a post that is a very personal description of one woman's feelings about childbearing, and in no way a call to abort male foetuses. One comment promotes the abortion of males, and the first few commenters push back on that. This doesn't really suggest to me that extremism is the norm.

[–]dixiechick547 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is so TIMs can take it over just like every other woman-based site. Then GC will be back with ‘proper’ moderation.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I made another thread on this.. but anyone who's going on there with an alternate account-- beware! The resurrected an account of mine that has long been deleted! They know who you are, basically, and seem to be tracking people.

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Google lies. Switch search engines. They're hiding results for political reasons related to the trans debate and they're lobbying the UK govt for self-ID.