QT: What rights don’t trans people have?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (59 children)

So they have rights… but face discrimination like pretty much everyone who’s not a straight, white male who isn’t trans…

I agree. Sounds like they get treated like everyone else to me

[–]NeedMoreCoffeeGC 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You mean like everyone. Even straight white males can face discrimination especially when they are poor or disabled. This racist privilege rethoric really just needs to go on all fronts.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Whatever lmao

Im not going to go back and forth with someone who doesn’t understand the concept of white privilege or systemic racism. If you don’t want to acknowledge it why waste my effort.

That poor or disabled white man may not get to flex his privilege with the reach of an able bodied and slightly wealthier white man- but he’d be a lot better off than a poor disabled white woman or poc of either sex.

Also- I didn’t say that someone disabled or poor wouldn’t be discriminated against, but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think a poor or disabled white male would still have more privilege than a poc or even white female in his shoes. That’s the point. Even if white males (including the trans ones) do experience some form of discrimination, they will still inevitably receive better treatment than any other demographic. Poor white guy gets arrested at the same time as a wealthy black man for the same crime- which one do you think is getting shot or more jail time?

[–]NeedMoreCoffeeGC 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are plenty of places where white poor people are being turned away from food kitchens because they are white and have less help because they are white.

You are absolutely delusional and racist if you think anyone except rich people, no matter their colour, have privilige.

Who is getting shot? have you actually checked those statistics because 2x more white people are getting shot by cops in the US then black people sweet heart. If you compare crime statistics per race its even a lot worse then you think. And if you think a wealthy black man will even get time compared to a white poor kid you are a lot more stupid then you think.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Lmao like I said, I’m not wasting time with people who don’t understand what white privilege is or what systemic racism is. That’s not what this sub is for and I spend my whole life hearing people tell me that white people have it oh so bad, even worse than the people they hold privilege over.

It’s hilarious that you’re calling me stupid (like really??? You’re that pathetic that you jump to that? Lol) for knowing how black men are treated in this country, particularly in comparison with white men lmao. Can’t even be mad because you’re too ignorant to be upset with.

Are there instances where a white male may not get special treatment or privilege or may be denied something, may even get shafted? Yes. Does that negate white privilege, or male privilege as a whole? No.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 10 fun2 insightful - 9 fun3 insightful - 10 fun -  (54 children)

People who aren't trans are cis.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

No, they just aren’t trans

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 9 fun2 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 9 fun -  (46 children)

We call them cis.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

No. They just aren’t trans. It makes no sense to refer to someone by their lack of a mental illness/drastic cosmetic surgeries made up sense of identity

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (43 children)

Many groups have names for "outsiders". The deaf call hearing people hearing people. We call non-disabled people able-bodied. Jews call non-Jews goy/goyim.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Sure. your “group” can refer to people inaccurately if they want to. I mean, they refer to themselves inaccurately constantly and try to force the rest of us to as well, so there’s no reason to expect them not to do the same to others lol

That doesn’t mean that cis just means not trans, a quick internet search shows what cis means and what the implications behind it are.

Deaf people can and do also often say “not deaf”

Able bodied is a phrase I hear often so I agree there

Jews can and often do say that someone/something is “not Jewish”

The difference is that there’s an implication behind calling someone cis, the word literally means that we have a gender identity.

when you refer to someone who isn’t deaf as a “hearing person” all you’re saying is that the person can hear/isn’t deaf, nothing more.

when you refer to someone as “able bodied” all you’re saying is that they aren’t disabled, nothing more.

when you call someone cis it’s done to validate trans people’s identities and it reaffirms a toxic, homophobic, and misogynistic ideology.

So, once again and not surprisingly so, your examples don’t work because the things you compare to the mentally ill community you stan so hard aren’t comparable at all.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (17 children)

Deaf and HOH people often use the term hearing people to refer to non-deaf/HOH people.

Yes we disabled people may use the term able-bodied and abled.

We do use the term non-Jews, because most non-Jews don't know the meaning of the terms goy/goyim. Goyim means nations in Hebrew, but Jews use the term in their communities to refer to non-Jews.

Cis merely means you aren't trans. Transgenderism is not a mental illness. Many trans people physically transition and most are satisfied with the results. Some regret it. I am actually mentally ill. I have bipolar, OCD and ADHD.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I genuinely can’t tell if you truly don’t get what I’m saying or just don’t want to address it. I know I asked this elsewhere but I feel like it’s a question I have often with you.

My point is that cis doesn’t just translate to “not trans” the same way that “hearing” translates to “not deaf”.

If the trans community wants to use cis to just mean “not trans” (which is decidedly NOT how they are using it but I’ll pretend) that’s their thing and Idgaf, but it’s not what the word means and it’s not even how tras explain the word to us when they want to educate us.

The physical state of having given yourself a cross sex hormonal imbalance and possibly also having undergone drastic cosmetic surgeries is not a mental illness because it’s a physical state. So it can’t be.

However the reasons that people take those steps to “transition” are all so obviously deeply rooted in mental illness that Im certain you knew what I meant by what I said

I understand you’re mentally ill, so is the trans community- which was my point.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (14 children)

Then what does cis mean in this society?

Also, HRT is not a hormonal imbalance.

[–]strictly 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cis merely means you aren't trans.

It doesn’t, otherwise you would be fine just calling us non-trans, instead you choose to refer to more narrow concept of having a gender identity at the same side of biological sex even though that’s not the case for us.

Trans people often say calling non-trans people people cisgender is like calling people straight. We don’t call non-homosexual people heterosexual indiscriminately though as not all non-homosexual people are heterosexual. It would be wrong of me to claim heterosexual just means “not homosexual” and call bisexual heterosexual, because heterosexual means more than not homosexual, it means being attracted to only the opposite sex. It’s the same way with cisgender, it implies way more than merely not transitioning.

[–]NeedMoreCoffeeGC 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What sloane means is that insisting people call themselves cis is like insisting an atheist calls himself a heretic, infidel or kafir. Atheists are not religious and do not see themselves as heritics and find it insulting.

We don't believe in gender identity so we can never call ourselves cis and we find it insulting. We believe in biological sex and that everyone has their own personality. We don't think "gender identity" is a thing.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

those are called slurs.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (21 children)

Hearing is a slur? Able-bodied is a slur?

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

You pretending that those are what I'm referring to is pathetic, but that's all team QT ever is.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (19 children)

Then what are you referring to by "slur"?

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We ask you stop doing that.

[–]strictly 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

People who aren't trans are cis.

Cis is the short form of cisgender, aka having a gender identity at the same side of your sex, which requires having a gender identity in the first place. Many non-transitioners don't have gender identities. Someone who claims to be against against misgendering should respect the lack gender identities of those who don't have gender identities instead of misgendering them with false gender identities.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Someone who claims to be against against misgendering should respect the lack gender identities of those who don't have gender identities instead of misgendering them with false gender identities.

And there it is.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (3 children)

Anyone who identifies with their birth sex is cis.

[–]strictly 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Anyone who identifies with their birth sex is cis.

Knowing your sex is not an identity, otherwise all trans people would be considered cisgendered people of their biological sex, in fact trans people would be considered even more "cis" than other people of their biological sex as they more acutely aware of their biological sex than the regular person due to being so unhappy about it. So unless you are willing to call Chaz Bono a cisgendered woman for aware enough their sex to able to be unhappy about it it would be hypocritical of you to misgender non-trans people with false gender identities just for knowing the same biological facts about their bodies as trans people do.

Also, if it had been true we all had this cisgender gender identity you claim we have, it's strange indeed that we would ask you stop misgendering us with this false cisgender identity. Had we indeed had this gender identity you claim we have we would have felt validated by it, like you, and love being called this gender identity, but it's the opposite. Either people should be taken seriously when they talk about their gender identities, regardless of trans status, or nobody should be taken seriously they talk about their gender identities, regardless of trans status. It seems to me though that you think only trans people should be believed and that's hypocritical to me.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

Trans people do not identify with their biological sex.

[–]strictly 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans people do not identify with their biological sex.

And you shouldn't automatically assume non-trans people do either, that would be hypocritical.