QT: What rights don’t trans people have?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Sure. your “group” can refer to people inaccurately if they want to. I mean, they refer to themselves inaccurately constantly and try to force the rest of us to as well, so there’s no reason to expect them not to do the same to others lol

That doesn’t mean that cis just means not trans, a quick internet search shows what cis means and what the implications behind it are.

Deaf people can and do also often say “not deaf”

Able bodied is a phrase I hear often so I agree there

Jews can and often do say that someone/something is “not Jewish”

The difference is that there’s an implication behind calling someone cis, the word literally means that we have a gender identity.

when you refer to someone who isn’t deaf as a “hearing person” all you’re saying is that the person can hear/isn’t deaf, nothing more.

when you refer to someone as “able bodied” all you’re saying is that they aren’t disabled, nothing more.

when you call someone cis it’s done to validate trans people’s identities and it reaffirms a toxic, homophobic, and misogynistic ideology.

So, once again and not surprisingly so, your examples don’t work because the things you compare to the mentally ill community you stan so hard aren’t comparable at all.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (17 children)

Deaf and HOH people often use the term hearing people to refer to non-deaf/HOH people.

Yes we disabled people may use the term able-bodied and abled.

We do use the term non-Jews, because most non-Jews don't know the meaning of the terms goy/goyim. Goyim means nations in Hebrew, but Jews use the term in their communities to refer to non-Jews.

Cis merely means you aren't trans. Transgenderism is not a mental illness. Many trans people physically transition and most are satisfied with the results. Some regret it. I am actually mentally ill. I have bipolar, OCD and ADHD.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I genuinely can’t tell if you truly don’t get what I’m saying or just don’t want to address it. I know I asked this elsewhere but I feel like it’s a question I have often with you.

My point is that cis doesn’t just translate to “not trans” the same way that “hearing” translates to “not deaf”.

If the trans community wants to use cis to just mean “not trans” (which is decidedly NOT how they are using it but I’ll pretend) that’s their thing and Idgaf, but it’s not what the word means and it’s not even how tras explain the word to us when they want to educate us.

The physical state of having given yourself a cross sex hormonal imbalance and possibly also having undergone drastic cosmetic surgeries is not a mental illness because it’s a physical state. So it can’t be.

However the reasons that people take those steps to “transition” are all so obviously deeply rooted in mental illness that Im certain you knew what I meant by what I said

I understand you’re mentally ill, so is the trans community- which was my point.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (14 children)

Then what does cis mean in this society?

Also, HRT is not a hormonal imbalance.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

cisgender [sisˈjendər] ADJECTIVE denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex

Trans people don’t go on HRT they take cross sex hormones to intentionally give their bodies abnormal hormone levels. If a man who isn’t trans were put on cross sex hormones for long enough he’d develop “breasts” too, only for him it would be a negative side effect rather than the goal. So like I said- intentional hormonal imbalance.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Then what does cis mean in this society?

As you've been shown repeatedly, it's a conditional descriptor. You have to have a gender identity in order to be "cis." Gender identity is neither a commonly accepted nor scientific concept.

It's nothing more than in-group slang, and doesn't remotely apply to the populace at large.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (11 children)

You don't need to have a gender identity in order to be cis.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You don't need to have a gender identity in order to be cis

You absolutely, unequivocally do.

ETA quote and allow me to logic-map it for you.

"Cis" is a designator unique to trans advocacy

Trans advocacy includes a core concept of gender identity which is not widely accepted outside the community

"Cis" is categorically linked to gender identity

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

But lacking gender identity is making someone "agender". Why changing rules mid-way?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 10 fun2 insightful - 9 fun3 insightful - 10 fun -  (8 children)

Agender is part of the nom-binary spectrum. So that means you can't call yourself male or female anymore.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Male or female is not gender identity, it is sex.

[–]strictly 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Agender is part of the nom-binary spectrum.

More or less all people here would be trans according to the definitions trans activists use, yes. I personally think that is an overly broad definition so I define trans as someone who is taking hormones. But if not having a cisgender gender identity is the being trans to you I think you should own up to that and recognize most of us are trans according to the definitions you adhere to.

that means you can't call yourself male or female anymore.

Plenty of trans people have called themselves their biological sex. Blair White has recognized being a biological male, Buck Angel has recognized being a biological female, are they cis according to you? You shouldn't make special rules just for non-trans people. And trans people say gender identity and biological sex are two separate things so being truthful about one’s biological sex (a truth the person might not even like) doesn’t really say anything at all about that person’s gender identity. Thirdly, even people who call themselves nonbinary and specifically avoid calling themselves the specific letters “male” and “female” are still frequently calling themselves biological males and females by calling themselves amabs and afabs. The meaning of a word is what it refer to, not the specific letters combinations used, so if female trans people call themselves afabs, they are still calling themselves females as female is what they refer to.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

Plenty of trans people have called themselves their biological sex. Blair White has recognized being a biological male, Buck Angel has recognized being a biological female, are they cis according to you? You shouldn't make special rules just for non-trans people.

Yes, they recognize they were born male or female and have sex-specific internal organs but that's not how they primarily identify. On medical forms, Buck will likely check "female". On census and other forums, Buck will likely "male". If you ask Buck if he's a man or a woman, he will answer man. Buck also does not claim female oppression.

[–]strictly 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cis merely means you aren't trans.

It doesn’t, otherwise you would be fine just calling us non-trans, instead you choose to refer to more narrow concept of having a gender identity at the same side of biological sex even though that’s not the case for us.

Trans people often say calling non-trans people people cisgender is like calling people straight. We don’t call non-homosexual people heterosexual indiscriminately though as not all non-homosexual people are heterosexual. It would be wrong of me to claim heterosexual just means “not homosexual” and call bisexual heterosexual, because heterosexual means more than not homosexual, it means being attracted to only the opposite sex. It’s the same way with cisgender, it implies way more than merely not transitioning.