all 58 comments

[–]FiggerNaggot1 21 insightful - 5 fun21 insightful - 4 fun22 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

Absolutely, I believe there is a very real plot to destroy not just the US but all of Western Civilisation. Who is doing this you ask? Oh come on, we all know who.

[–]BillionDollarEgg3 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

more than one group, possibly more than a dozen.

[–]Aureus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To respond to OP: the answer is of course. You can't watch protesters burning the American flag, major actors calling to "Burn down this f*cking Constitution", and general hate against the US being taught in classrooms or repeated in the media and not recognize that the left doesn't like the United States very much.

I feel like we're in the middle of the French Revolution, and people are still questioning if the Jacobins really hate the monarchy or if it's all just for show. It's comical.

[–]Newmug 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't??? (I'm new here)

[–]basedwallis 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(((me too)))

[–]magnora7 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

There was a documented attempted coup of the US in 1933: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

Left/right doesn't really matter. Some people just want power, and will use any means necessary to get it. It's always happening, from many different people and groups simultaneously.

[–]VantaFount 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I had a feeling you were referring to the plot that led General Butler to write "War is a Racket"

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Prescott Bush (Dubya's grandpa) was one of the conspirators. He also helped fund the Nazis.

Neocons and Israel did 9/11, with the support of the senior Democrats.

You can be 100% certain that the Bush family supports the destabilization and the coup.

The Bush family are right wing banksters/oiligarchs.

[–]whereswhat 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. We are getting fucked from all angles.

[–]SaidOverRed 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh come on. Even wikipedia says it's a hoax / conspiracy theory. Let me guess hardcore centrist who thinks fascism is everywhere?

[–]VantaFount 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not even going to narrow it down to "groups on the left" There are indeed (groups) that are actively trying to destroy the United States.

[–]SaidOverRed 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well it's certainly not boring, vanilla nationalists or Rush Limbaugh trying to do anything like that. But there are communists or other leftist politicians looking to 'fundamentally transform' and all that.

[–]Earendil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's both sides following and supporting political parties which are both indebted to the same wicked people.

[–]SaidOverRed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'd beg for evidence, especially on the right, but it never goes beyond "politically friendly" normal, boring stuff that happens with tons of other groups too.

[–]FormosaOolong 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

It would be so helpful if we all stopped capitulating to this left/right fake divide illusion. The forces behind this destructive agenda are beyond red and blue, they are insatiable power-hungry maniacs with no respect for life or liberty, earth or country, and an obsessive desire for world domination simply for its own sake, as if "winning" that "game" were going to make them happy.

[–]Chipit 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

That would be nice if the left would regard the rest of us Americans as Americans, and say we're all in the same boat. But to the left, we Americans are The Other. This is the best explanation I've ever heard at this link. A bit long but worth reading every word because it answers SO many questions. http://archive.is/QRJ6m

[–]FormosaOolong 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

How does your disdain and blame for the so-called left differ from the so-called left's disdain and blame for your PoV?

[–]Chipit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

We consider all westerners as the ingroup, and non-westerners as the outgroup. But the left considers our outgroups as their ingroups, and their outgroup is US.

You can't say it's some kind of fake division. It's founded in human personality differences. Johnathan Haidt has done outstanding work in this field. Here's his TED talk, you really need to watch it: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

http://www.aei.org/publication/liberals-or-conservatives-whos-really-close-minded/

[–]d3rr 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but generalizing the actions of the extreme left onto half of the US population isn't very accurate. Most people are somewhere in the middle, and they aren't going to take up arms against you to defend antifa or open borders or communism or whateverthehell. You probably realize this too but maybe it's worth saying. "the left" is not unified or homogenous just like "the right" isn't, despite the media trying to make it so.

[–]Aureus 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I keep seeing this issue crop up here on SaidIt. I think there ought to be a big thread discussing it that people can refer to whenever it comes up.

I feel like a lot of people here align themselves with "the left", while they are actually classical liberals, 90s/00s liberals, or libertarian left socialists who care mostly about economic policies rather than culture war issues. I'll call this Group A

Then you have refugees from reddit's admittedly-leftist propaganda culture and censorship policies. Some of these are conservatives, others are anti-SJW, and still others are just frustrated moderates. I'll call this Group B

The pattern is that Group B criticizes "the left" on some issue. Group A then gets (somewhat understandably) offended, and chimes in that a lot of the left isn't like that. Group B then gets (somewhat understandably) miffed, and responds that it definitely is prominent mainstream leftists who are responsible for the issue (which is true). Both are technically correct, they just have very different perspectives of what "the left" is.

The thing is that Group A and Group B don't even disagree that much. Both groups seems very live-and-let-live, "I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone" types. But this one perceptual difference has led to a lot of disagreements on here.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

It's not the extreme left we're talking about. It's the whole left.

Go ahead, ask any of them if they have anything in common with West Virginians. Ask them if the West Virginians are even human. You and I both know what answers you'll get.

[–]d3rr 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think consume too much anti-left media if you feel the left is all the same. How about saidit's lefties who haven't posted a single damn thing in support of BLM but instead choose to talk about the police? How about all of the Bernie 2016 supporters who bailed for Trump? How about all of the Green party supporters "throwing away" their votes to vote against war?

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, I know the view from inside the left, it's a mess of factions. But there is the maxim, "no friends to the right, no enemies to the left" to serve as a guide. The right has no similar idea. This results in the left going further and further left all the time, up until we get the insanity we have today.

The one thing that everyone agrees on is that the right is The Other. That's the source of today's polarization problems. In 1973, all six major US class segments were centrist. Over the next 35 years, five of the segments moved slightly to the right, but "Intellectual Upper Class" moved far out to the left. See:

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-white-house-and-the-pauline-kael-syndrome/

https://heterodoxacademy.org/2016/01/09/professors-moved-left-but-country-did-not/

[–]d3rr 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nice links. I've never heard this maxim before, interesting that I'd hear it from a non-leftist for the first time. The media/extreme left is going further left, but that doesn't mean half of the country is genuinely along for the ride. The rural dems are not on the same page as the city folk.

Maybe you'd have better luck trying to flip moderates rather than demonize them.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/03/05/drawing-lines-against-racism-and-fascism#

This is a pretty typical snippet of the "no friends to the right, no enemies to the left" view. You should be familiar with most of its arguments.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Amen! Preach it brother

[–]porthos 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm on the left, and I don't believe this. I supported Bernie in 2016, before he got on the identitarian bandwagon, and I supported Tulsi for 2020. Tulsi works with both sides, and will criticize both sides- that's why the Dems rejected and smeared her, she was an up and coming Dem Party star before she chose to support Bernie over Hillary. And I've actually used coal miners as an example when arguing against other lefties about how victim politics are bullshit.

So, no, it's not the whole left.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Tulsi? "I endorse Joe Biden" Tulsi? Come on, she played you like a fiddle. Just like Bernie did.

You lefties who don't dehumanize the American people are rare as hen's teeth. You do a good job staying hidden. Hillary should have put you in charge of her emails.

[–]porthos 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

First we don't exist, now we're rare. I don't like Hillary because I'm anti-war, just like Tulsi, who called Hillary the Queen of the Warmongers.

And Tulsi pledged to support the eventual candidate - it was a DNC requirement for running, and she keeps her word. I won't be voting for Biden. Probably Jo.

And yes, I'm very disappointed with Bernie.

[–]porthos 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You cited Jonathan Haidt in another thread, how do you think he would view West Virginians?

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I have no idea; I'm not a mind-reader. I would guess with a great deal of compassion and humanity. I doubt he would punch down and make mean-spirited jokes about buck teeth, the Islamic practice of cousin marriage, and intelligence being being a heritable trait in families.

[–]porthos 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'm not sure if this got lost; I'm still responding to:

It's not the extreme left we're talking about. It's the whole left.

My point is there are some honest people on the left, those who are calling out the far left, including Jonathan Haidt. Here he is saying

On the left, political correctness is the commitment to not telling the truth... we can not speak honestly about race, gender, or immigration... and we give an unbalanced perspective on what's going on.

Sam Harris had a debate with Ezra Klein, 2 people on the left, over race and IQ. Harris argued for complete intellectual honesty, and Klein argued for protecting people from information that might be misinterpreted in racist ways.

These are just 2 examples, 1 I knew you were familiar with, and another on the race/IQ topic that has been brought up recently. The maxim "no friends to the right, no enemies to the left" is not universal on the left.

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Johnathan Haidt isn't a leftist. He's a liberal. You can tell because he's not calling for censorship. Free speech is a bedrock liberal ideal.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That would be nice if the left would regard the rest of us Americans as Americans, and say we're all in the same boat.

Nobody thinks you're an American.

[–]Vendor_BBMC 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Dude this has been going on for decades. The New World Order

[–]Chipit 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Well yeah. The model is the cultural revolution in China. Of course there it was class-based rather than race-based. In both it wasn't about you, it was about your genetics. Simply having unacceptable parents was enough to condemn you.

Much like today, it was the Red Guard (far left) vs. Red Army (moderate left that just wants to rule without interference).

[–]H3v8 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Last time I checked, the main idea of the left is to abolish borders and nations and have a global "workers government".

As for the military, I think Obama and the Clintons got America into enough wars. Even the left need the military and the police for their own purposes.

[–]porthos 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't. I think it's shortsightedness.

Intersectionality and 3rd wave feminism - I think these people are really trying to improve things by tearing down the old power structures. They have nothing to replace the old structures with, and the power vacuum they create will be filled with whatever's present, which means probably worse. And this stuff is self-perpetuating, when you see the world as oppressor and oppressed, instead of individuals trying to figure out their own way, you end up doing what you're saying - you reinforce the groups that are already there, strengthening the divisions, then they see more divisions, etc.

[–]d3rr 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, but also from groups on the right, and from multiple countries/factions too. And the leader of the right can't even spell Constitution. We're fucked and on the way out.

[–]npp0 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Destroy the U.S and the west in general. It's a slow process that's been happening for decades and probably too late now.

Yuri Bezmenov, ex-KGB who defected to Canada, warned people in the 80's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA

This article is relevant and intersting too - https://prophecyinthenews.com/world_news/the-communist-infiltration-of-america-was-prophesied/

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]kokolokoNightcrawler 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    You're trolling, poop. The only difference between a muslim and a christian is that a muslim will resist the devils smallhat tribe where christians have already succumb, unfortunately. However, when we talk about desert Muslims, their brains are indeed overcooked and they will do all sorts of crazy shit, like any other desert folk in the past, Islam or no Islam. There is only one enemy of Christianity and West culture, and it's the tribe you can't talk shit about, the rest of us are just casual victims.

    [–]Earendil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This is very accurate. The desert-dwellers (of any race) can get pretty cooked, both in ancient times and modern.

    But we are casual victims, or willing goons.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]kokolokoNightcrawler 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      First of all that story sounds hilarious, were you undercover for two years :D All of my life I had DAILY contact with the non wahabi, non desert Muslims, totally normal people. Those ideas you're talking about come from the Saudi sponsored, semite, jew cousin bearded freaks.

      The theory of dirty westerners is true tho. If you don't wash your ass every day, you's a dirty pig.

      [–]yesofcoursenaturally 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It's probably a variety of different groups, sometimes with actual conflicting visions, but all contributing to helping things utterly disintegrate.

      [–]blowininthewind 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      i think it's more of a forth turning thing. it's becoming increasingly like the last 20's and 30's, where leftist (socialist) ideologies rise (not to judge any ideologies) and you've got yourself another hero generation, the generation that most laugh about, the millennials. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generational_theory

      [–]whistlepig 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It is a Brave New World....

      [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yes, this has been going on for years. An infiltration and enablers are behind it. A correction is necessary for America to handle her hostilities from within and save it from itself. There are members less productive and certain practices most destructive that need rectification for unification. Here is to current admin making it happen in a positive way.

      [–]solarsavior 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      The Great Awakening continues... The Silent War continues...

      [–]Kuwabara 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I think that's simple minded, assuming grand conspiracy and collusion when there's a lot of different groups, beliefs and opinions out there. Some of the things you claim are leftist positions are also held on the right or issues of people on the right as well.

      Weaken our military. Liberalize drug use. Anything goes immigration policy.

      Not in the negative way you framed it("destroy the US") but these three in particular are actually Libertarian positions, and also held by particular Republicans as well.

      The idea that liberalizing drug use would be a bad thing is ridiculous, honestly. Drug law has been a massive failure in this country and is actually one of the major factors that are causing this racial strife and anti-police sentiment, where it disproportionately affects minorities.

      [–]suckitreddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I think they're just trying to get rich, and if the consequence is a crumbling nation, so be it. They will happily live in their walled gardens, and ivory towers.

      [–]Popper 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      rich own both right and left and use both to destroy us

      the repubs ruin economy thru taxcuts for the rich and no regulations on wall st. Dems ruin country thru sjw woke shit. Voters want neither of these but it's all we get.

      [–]Big_Brass_Balls 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yes. And they're funded by the Jew George Soros.