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[–]Chipit 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

That would be nice if the left would regard the rest of us Americans as Americans, and say we're all in the same boat. But to the left, we Americans are The Other. This is the best explanation I've ever heard at this link. A bit long but worth reading every word because it answers SO many questions. http://archive.is/QRJ6m

[–]FormosaOolong 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

How does your disdain and blame for the so-called left differ from the so-called left's disdain and blame for your PoV?

[–]Chipit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

We consider all westerners as the ingroup, and non-westerners as the outgroup. But the left considers our outgroups as their ingroups, and their outgroup is US.

You can't say it's some kind of fake division. It's founded in human personality differences. Johnathan Haidt has done outstanding work in this field. Here's his TED talk, you really need to watch it: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

http://www.aei.org/publication/liberals-or-conservatives-whos-really-close-minded/

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying, but generalizing the actions of the extreme left onto half of the US population isn't very accurate. Most people are somewhere in the middle, and they aren't going to take up arms against you to defend antifa or open borders or communism or whateverthehell. You probably realize this too but maybe it's worth saying. "the left" is not unified or homogenous just like "the right" isn't, despite the media trying to make it so.

[–]Aureus 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I keep seeing this issue crop up here on SaidIt. I think there ought to be a big thread discussing it that people can refer to whenever it comes up.

I feel like a lot of people here align themselves with "the left", while they are actually classical liberals, 90s/00s liberals, or libertarian left socialists who care mostly about economic policies rather than culture war issues. I'll call this Group A

Then you have refugees from reddit's admittedly-leftist propaganda culture and censorship policies. Some of these are conservatives, others are anti-SJW, and still others are just frustrated moderates. I'll call this Group B

The pattern is that Group B criticizes "the left" on some issue. Group A then gets (somewhat understandably) offended, and chimes in that a lot of the left isn't like that. Group B then gets (somewhat understandably) miffed, and responds that it definitely is prominent mainstream leftists who are responsible for the issue (which is true). Both are technically correct, they just have very different perspectives of what "the left" is.

The thing is that Group A and Group B don't even disagree that much. Both groups seems very live-and-let-live, "I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone" types. But this one perceptual difference has led to a lot of disagreements on here.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

It's not the extreme left we're talking about. It's the whole left.

Go ahead, ask any of them if they have anything in common with West Virginians. Ask them if the West Virginians are even human. You and I both know what answers you'll get.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think consume too much anti-left media if you feel the left is all the same. How about saidit's lefties who haven't posted a single damn thing in support of BLM but instead choose to talk about the police? How about all of the Bernie 2016 supporters who bailed for Trump? How about all of the Green party supporters "throwing away" their votes to vote against war?

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, I know the view from inside the left, it's a mess of factions. But there is the maxim, "no friends to the right, no enemies to the left" to serve as a guide. The right has no similar idea. This results in the left going further and further left all the time, up until we get the insanity we have today.

The one thing that everyone agrees on is that the right is The Other. That's the source of today's polarization problems. In 1973, all six major US class segments were centrist. Over the next 35 years, five of the segments moved slightly to the right, but "Intellectual Upper Class" moved far out to the left. See:

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-white-house-and-the-pauline-kael-syndrome/

https://heterodoxacademy.org/2016/01/09/professors-moved-left-but-country-did-not/

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nice links. I've never heard this maxim before, interesting that I'd hear it from a non-leftist for the first time. The media/extreme left is going further left, but that doesn't mean half of the country is genuinely along for the ride. The rural dems are not on the same page as the city folk.

Maybe you'd have better luck trying to flip moderates rather than demonize them.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/03/05/drawing-lines-against-racism-and-fascism#

This is a pretty typical snippet of the "no friends to the right, no enemies to the left" view. You should be familiar with most of its arguments.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Amen! Preach it brother

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Tulsi? "I endorse Joe Biden" Tulsi? Come on, she played you like a fiddle. Just like Bernie did.

    You lefties who don't dehumanize the American people are rare as hen's teeth. You do a good job staying hidden. Hillary should have put you in charge of her emails.

    [–][deleted]  (9 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

      I have no idea; I'm not a mind-reader. I would guess with a great deal of compassion and humanity. I doubt he would punch down and make mean-spirited jokes about buck teeth, the Islamic practice of cousin marriage, and intelligence being being a heritable trait in families.

      [–][deleted]  (7 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

        Johnathan Haidt isn't a leftist. He's a liberal. You can tell because he's not calling for censorship. Free speech is a bedrock liberal ideal.

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          That would be nice if the left would regard the rest of us Americans as Americans, and say we're all in the same boat.

          Nobody thinks you're an American.