If I ever go to jail, I hope it's in California. [Dave Chappelle]

submitted by Tom_BombadilBombadildo from 9gag.com

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[–]NastyWetSmear 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Is "Fruit Cup" a metaphor?... I know what they get up to in prison!

[–]Tom_BombadilBombadildo[S] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

Yes. It's coded language for fake and gay people like /u/Hematomato.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Good one, Tom. Did that one come from the functional part of your brain or from the part that's mostly dead tissue?

[–]Tom_BombadilBombadildo[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Did that one come from the functional part of your brain or from the part that's mostly dead tissue?

Hey /u/NastyWetSmear, Fruit Cup brought jokes.

[–]NastyWetSmear 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Now I'm caught between wanting to punch someone and take their fruit cup, and just wanting to punch a fruit cup!

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I thought that was a pretty lazy joke. Of course California law doesn't work like that. The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation investigates every request to be housed in a women's prison based on a claimed gender identity, and to date they've only approved about 48% of the requests.

[–]NastyWetSmear 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

So you're saying they got it wrong 48% of the time? That's not great work. You could almost toss a coin and get that rate of failure.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

They decided that a women's prison was the most appropriate venue for 48% of the petitioners, and they decided that a men's prison was the most appropriate venue for 52% of the petitioners.

The DCR doesn't really give a shit about "right" or "wrong." All they care about is maximizing the chance that the incarceration will be peaceful and cost-effective.

[–]NastyWetSmear 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Well, I was joking to rile you up, but I bet they care a little bit about the public image of being progressive, otherwise they'd just make those prisoners keep the wig and make up on and send them back to the male gaol to be molested to death.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It's just important to recognize that this truly is something that has to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

A transgender woman like Nong Poy would not do well in a men's prison. She'd be raped on a daily basis. It's flat-out inhumane to throw her in there.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETpF4FHUUAAMAUt.jpg

Whereas a transgender woman like Lia Thomas doesn't belong in a women's prison. She's much stronger than her fellow inmates and she's attracted to women. She would become an alpha predator among the prison population.

https://snworksceo.imgix.net/dpn/5b8ec8cb-6393-4bf4-8ced-57915b659fb5.sized-1000x1000.jpg

And frankly, the DCR has it right. Any one blanket decision about placement is going to lead to problems. It should be taken on a case-by-case basis.

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I don't agree. But stay with me here...

I know a lot of people on here will tell you that trans people aren't real. Well, I don't believe that. They clearly are, and they need help. My stance doesn't come from a place where I'm pretending that this isn't a real phenomenon.

That being said, I'm also not under the impression that a man can become a woman, or that we should adjust our world to compensate for people who think they are the opposite gender. We make small exceptions, like we do for any other mental of social problem a person has, but if someone has social anxiety or auditory hallucinations or Tourette's, we don't flip the world for them - We acknowledge their unfortunate problem and we do our best to be sympathetic, but at the end of the day they need to do the right thing to help control and mitigate the illness.

In this case, we look at a man who claims to be a woman and we say: "For your sake, we'll move you into the women's prison"

On the surface of that, it seems the fair and reasonable choice, but it ignores that in placating the symptoms of someone's sexual dysmorphia, we have now punished the whole female prison system, and we have created a totally subjective hole in the system for any number of people who don't respect a system to worm through - people like criminals, who have shown they already have less respect for the system then their own personal needs.

If there were some physical, reliable diagnosis of sexual dysmorphia, like a blood test or a scan, maybe something like this could be considered, but as it is all we have to go on is the word of the claimant and the best guess of a team. The end result is we put biological men into the women's prison, putting the women at risk in an environment that is already specifically segregated because of violence and rape, and create a way for men who simply want to be the top dog and rape anyone they please to slip between the gaps.

You can't keep making exceptions for every possible situation. Flamboyantly gay men will end up in prison, small, weak men will end up in prison, huge men who can't control their anger will end up in prison, cold and intelligent serial killers will end up in prison - We can't make a prison for each different kind of person, and we can't just shuffle the weaker men into the women's prison and the stronger women into the male prisons, so at the end of the day the problem that needs to be addressed is the violence and sexual assault taking place in prison, not the whim of a prisoner who is under the illusion that they are the wrong gender.

I don't believe this is the correct approach, and I think reinforcing this thinking does more harm than good to all parties. More time and effort needs to be spent on helping understand the cause of the various problems and finding a fix, not passing the problem from one location to another and shrugging your shoulders when it doesn't resolve the matter.

And, naturally, the ultimate solution for a person who thinks they wouldn't survive in prison?... Don't commit crimes.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You can't keep making exceptions for every possible situation. Flamboyantly gay men will end up in prison, small, weak men will end up in prison, huge men who can't control their anger will end up in prison, cold and intelligent serial killers will end up in prison - We can't make a prison for each different kind of person

Not for each and every different kind of person - but in a general sense, this is exactly what the Bureau of Prisons already does. They have minimum, medium, and maximum security prisons. There are hellhole prisons that house the most violent offenders, and there are prisons that guards sarcastically refer to as "Prisneyland."

And there are no strict rules about which people end up in which - only guidelines. The BoP considers questions like: where will inmates be the safest. Where do we need to assign the most hardened guards and where can we assign more novice guards. That's for a reason.

Let me just ask you this. This is Scott Percy. Scott was born with a vagina. Biologically female.

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/scott-a-percy03-6479fbd145ab6.png

Do you honestly think a women's prison is the right place to house Scott Percy, if he committed a violent crime like rape? That we should have a strict rule saying "Scott's roommate must be a woman"?

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The point is, Minimum, Medium and Maximum already exist, and you knew that, and you know it's not really answering my point - You can't expect them to continue to create more and more niche prisons to accommodate all varieties of people, nor should they be mixing the population at the whim of the convict.

As for Scott there, yeah, if she's a woman, women's prison. Nothing stops any woman in a woman's prison from bulking up, pumping iron and doing whatever steroids and hormones Sarah there does as well, meaning that unless, again, you want to start having weight divisions and height sections and a prison for people born with broader shoulders and a prison for people born with thinner shoulders, you have to accept the basics - Big people in prison will pick on little people, but a woman, no matter what she calls herself and what drugs she took at what age, is a woman. If "The Mountain" from Game of Thrones got caught robbing from a charity box, would you demand a prison just for him because he's bigger than all the men in the men's prison, so it isn't "Fair"?

Again, the best way to avoid meeting a "Scott" seems to be not to be a criminal.

At the very least, Scottina there won't be impregnating the people she rapes.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Again, the best way to avoid meeting a "Scott" seems to be not to be a criminal.

It's almost as though you want to make prison conditions worse.

There are plenty of people in prison for reasons like "They hurt their back, and they got addicted to their Percocet prescription, and when it ran out they couldn't handle the withdrawals so they switched to heroin, and they got caught with some."

And now you're like: well, do the crime, get raped a lot. The prisons should prioritize picking a side in the culture wars over preventing that.

[–]NastyWetSmear 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think it's very telling of where our conversation is going that you've been reduced to that argument. It takes some very desperate reimagining to look at the things I've said and try and summarise my point in that way.

But I'll cut you some slack on that and say, instead, that it was a good conversation before this point. We don't agree, but that's okay. In theory, that's why there are elections, so that many points of view can be put forward and people can vote for the ones they agree with the closest, putting them in practice.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Nothing makes a joke funnier than disassembling the politics and statistics behind it to suit your own opinion, huh? 🙄

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

When the premises of a joke are just flat-out wrong, the joke doesn't really work. Like, any joke that begins with "Why do women have eight legs" isn't going to have a funny punchline.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Since when are jokes required to be accurate and free of technicalities to be funny? That implies all impressionism, sarcasm, exaggerations and parody are not funny in your world. I heard the joke as a criticism of left wing ideology, in which the premise remains valid. The link to California was obviously a jab at left wing politics, not specific state statistics. Anyway. Nobody actually cares if someone doesn't find a joke funny.

[–]Hematomato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You know who's not funny in my world? Seth Meyers, since 2016. Because he has one joke, and that joke is "Republicans are evil, stupid, drooling morons."

Which is not really a joke at all, but his audience laughs, because there's a certain kind of person who laughs when someone just says something they want to hear. They go "HA HA HA THAT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT MY OWN ANGER."

Anyway, Chappelle, who's usually an excellent comedian, just told a fucking Meyers. The joke is "California's full of such drooling liberal morons that they'd let me go to women's prison." That's the whole joke.

It isn't true; it isn't funny; it's just a Meyers. It's some expired produce for partisan donkeys to hee-haw over.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's just an ice-breaker joke meant to tickle a rib, and let's face it, California is widely known as being full of far-left liberals.

[–]weavilsatemyface 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

they've only approved about 48% of the requests.

I doubt that figure.

According to this story:

“as of Feb. 26, 2023, 349 people housed in male institutions have requested to be housed in a female institution. 47 were approved for transfer, 21 were denied, and 35 changed their minds. The remaining requests are being reviewed.”

We don't know how many of the 35 who changed their mind did so after being approved. But out of the 68 who made the request to transfer, and a decision has been made, 69% were approved.

The ultimate problem is that American prisons are shit. Both the prison management and the wider community is happy for them to remain shit. If they wanted to reduce prison rape and sexual assault, and for that matter prison violence in general, they could do so, but they don't. There are no woke brownie points for cleaning up prisons so that they are safe. Americans, both liberals and conservatives, like the fact that prisoners risk rape and assault in prison. If they didn't, they would do something about it.

[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, according to that story, of 103 requests for transfer, 47 were approved. 47/103 = 46%. Slightly lower than the figure I gave.

We don't know how many of the 35 who changed their mind did so after being approved.

I'm fairly sure it means they changed their minds during the process, before a decision was handed down - presumably because they realized you can't just say the magic words "I identify as a woman" and let that be the long and short of it.

they could do so, but they don't.

It would take money. We have too many prisoners and too few resources. Fixing prisons requires either reducing the number of prisoners or increasing the number of resources.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, according to that story, of 103 requests for transfer, 47 were approved. 47/103 = 46%. Slightly lower than the figure I gave.

You can't include the withdrawn requests, because you don't know whether they would have been approved or not.

We don't know why some inmates changed their mind and withdrew their transfer request. One should not assume that it is because they "aren't really trans" or because they weren't transitioning. The infamous serial rapist and killed Richard Speck bragged on video about having drug-fueled orgies in men's prison after his transition.

Maybe some of these guys withdrew their transfer request because they thought they would get more sex in a male prison.

(Aside: what the hell is it that so many serial killers and mass murderers decide to transition? Australian serial killer Paul Denyer called himself "Paula" for a while then changed his mind. Reginald Arthurell transitioned, then made threats against his victim's family while on parole. Why can't we even have that conversation without it being labelled transphobic?)

It would take money. We have too many prisoners and too few resources.

A good start might be to release some of the non-violent prisoners held for bullshit reasons, like possession of a few grams of weed.

The US is the richest country in the world according to GDP. It has the largest number of billionaires in the world, even allowing for population size. It spends more on so-called "defence" than the next six countries combined.

There's always more money for Ukraine or to support Israeli genocide, never enough money for fixing your own problems.

Prison reform is a low priority -- hell it isn't a priority at all -- because both the elite decision makers and the voting public think that prisoners should be degraded. They like the fact that if you go to prison for some crime, no matter how minor or bullshit, you've got a good chance of ending up raped or assaulted.

Otherwise they would find the money.

[–]hfxB0oyA 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Heh, only.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation investigates every request to be housed in a women's prison based on a claimed gender identity

What basis do they have for refusing a request?

There is no longer any requirement that the inmate have transitioned or had surgery, or that they be on hormones, or that they even state the intention to go onto hormones in the future. They don't need to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, or have legal documents stating they have a transgender status. All they need do is to claim to identify as a woman.

There have been exactly zero transfers of transman inmates to male prisons. I wonder why, since transmen are men? Why don't transmen want to be housed with other men?

[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What basis do they have for refusing a request?

There are no objective criteria for refusing a request, and there are no objective criteria for granting a request. They've just let it be entirely subjective, and let the DCR decide with any - or no - explanation why they made their decision. Presumably, the DCR considers questions like the likely safety of the convict, the likely safety of the other prisoners, the personal history of the convict, etc.