Fascism Question: Other than A James Gregor, who else are other fascism experts?

submitted by 8thmonitor from self.debatealtright

Other than A James Gregor, I also hear a lot about Stanley G. Payne and Roger Griffin.

Are they good? Anyone else?

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[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Zoltanous

Bogumil

Zoltanous has a book recommendation thing somewhere, maybe on his youtube. You can probably find more scholarly work that isn't dogshit there. There's some scholarly stuff here that's valuable, but it's within the sea of typical quackademic nonsense.

Dylan Riley's "The Civic Foundations of Fascism" and the study "Bowling for Hitler" are both good.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

These look great. For Zoltanous, I just found his book recommendation on his substack. Looks like a great list.

Are the videos on his Youtube good? Some of them make no sense.

A Video and substack post says that José Antonio Primo de Rivera was not a fascist, but only Ramiro Ledesma Ramos was a fascist. I thought both were fascists, but just had disagreements. Is that right? These are the links. https://archive.ph/TX0ST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4bKzZGhtEs

Another video and substack post is defending Kalergi(from the Kalergi Plan lol) as a fascist like Mosley. Huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ftACpqTsH0 https://fascio.substack.com/p/kalergi-the-most-misunderstood-man

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Are the videos on his Youtube good?...

I have only watched a few and they had decent information, could be inconsistent depending on who scripted and made them because he has like a gang of guys working together on them. There's an Indian guy in particular called 'Fascifist' who seems like an extreme sperg for example.

José Antonio Primo de Rivera was not a fascist...

I'm familiar, Jose Antonio was more along the lines of a reactionary, Catholic, distributist type character. A lot of these guys called themselves fascist or were allied with Mussolini. Ramiro Ledesma was a revolutionary nationalist and syndicalist. One of the biggest distinctions is the difference between Modernism and Reaction I guess, the agrarian guys who didn't want to modernise their countries vs the guys looking to re-organise their countries to be more powerful. Fascist movements tended to have both mixed together, the non-fascist ones neglected the modernism, rationalisation of the economy, labour-organising etc stuff.

Kalergi...

You ever meet a guy who is fascist because Mussolini was OP in some gay map game? Kalergi was like the original Paradox Sperg lol. Basically he was pretty close to being a fascist, but he was very elitist, and he was on the extreme modernist and progressive end, but instead of being anti-semitic because he saw what jews did with their power he was pro-semitic because he simply recognised their urban, organised, intellectual etc character led them to acquiring power. He was also kinda mystical/esoteric somewhat like a reactionary. Evola did an interview with him you can probably find somewhere online.

Richard Spencer also did like 'debunking rightoid myths about muh Kalergi plan' stuff years ago. Overall it seems that his analysis and predictions are quite accurate but obviously the semitophilia is just in direct opposition to the interests of Europeans. I think Kalergi's perspective is due to the nature of powerful classes, they view their class/caste as their race in a sense. It's quite rare for aristocrats to have a connection to their biological race due to the class hatred they have for people they view as beneath them.

If you read like the first few pages of On The Genealogy of Morals you can understand the elitist/aristocrat/reactionary perspective. Nietzsche literally believes aristocrats invented 'goodness' as being the opposite of the commoners, that common people have inherent characteristics that the aristocrats wanted to distance themselves from and then labelling themselves as 'good' after this new anti-commoner model. He thinks all human morality is based on this. When you realise this is what powerful and rich people think of the other 99.99% it's no surprise that guys like Kalergi have their strange, seemingly incoherent, beliefs.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Thank you so much for the great clarifications.

I don't know about Fascifist. What views is he incorrect about?

I have another fascism question. I asked it before, but I got no response on this sub. Were Imperial Japan and Shōwa Statism fascist? Was there any Japanese fascism? https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/b4kj/fascism_question_were_imperial_japan_and_sh%C5%8Dwa/

Similarly, is Juche Korean fascism?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't know about Fascifist. What views is he incorrect about?

It's not about being wrong it's more about his general way of being lol. He has like 20 telegram pages that are like 'Based (insert third world socialist leader)' and he'll like repost all of the other ones across all of them. Then he'll sperg out on some rants on one of them about how he hates the British Empire or some shit and repost that on all the accounts too. I found some of the stuff he was running to be quite useful as I am interested in third worldist kinda stuff a la the SS post-ww2, Yockey etc but this guy is too like personally invested emotionally or whatever in stuff and it makes the stuff he posts that aren't just 1:1 copy paste quotes be negatively affected by his own biases/feelings.

Imperial Japan and Shōwa Statism fascist?

I didn't answer this because I don't know. I don't think they were, I think that guy who got killed with the katana in the famous picture was a socialist who was similar to fascism but I don't think they had a proper fascist movement. Borzoi has made podcasts about Korea and Japan that you'd probably be interested in.

Similarly, is Juche Korean fascism?

I have read a couple things produced by the DPRK about 'the real meaning of nationalism' or something like that, it sounds like Juche is fascist/nazbol adjacent at least. Like how most 3rd world socialist states had more in common with fascism than internationalist marxism. I don't know enough about their policies and such to say if they have a good model or not though.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Good to know. I will check out Borzoi's podcasts on Korea and Japan.

I was especially curious about North Korea because if North Korea is fascist, wouldn't that mean that North Korea is the fascist state with the longest existence? It existed since 1948.

What would most fascists consider as the fascist state with the longest existence? I was thinking Fascist Italy with 21 years (1922-1943). But Ba'athist Iraq went from 1968 to 2003. I think Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr was also a fascist like Saddam Hussein.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was especially curious about North Korea because if North Korea is fascist, wouldn't that mean that North Korea is the fascist state with the longest existence? It existed since 1948. What would most fascists consider as the fascist state with the longest existence? I was thinking Fascist Italy with 21 years (1922-1943). But Ba'athist Iraq went from 1968 to 2003. I think Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr was also a fascist like Saddam Hussein.

Yeah if they are, I don't think most guys really care though because it's irrelevant to us as Europeans and Americans. From the perspective of fascists in the west all they care about is the liberation of their own countries, other states are really only interesting insofar as they can teach us about tactics, strategy etc to achieve power. I only really care about Germany and Italy because they were European, even if NK is fascist it doesn't matter to us because what can be learned from them anyway? North Korea was founded because the Soviet Union backed Kim Il Sung not because of his own organising and such. People who have some aspiration to organise politically ought to just be studying Germany and Italy because they were grassroots and led populist mass revolutions.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said. I have an unrelated fascist question: Did Mosley reject JQ? I know some fascists rejected JQ.

I found a website called https://www.oswaldmosley.com/. Is it legit? Did Mosley write these answers? The website is run by The Friends of Oswald Mosley. I think they are using his writings from past books and other material. This answer talks about how Mosley is proudly against antisemitism. https://www.oswaldmosley.com/question-what-is-your-attitude-to-the-jews/

I am not an anti-Semite.

Huh? How could he not believe in it with his experience with Mussolini and Hitler?

[–]Mr_Tee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Borzoi has made podcasts about Korea and Japan that you'd probably be interested in.

Huh? Where? Is it on TRS?

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Here's one with links to other stuff on Korea on the page

I've heard stuff here and there on Poz Button, People's Square, Third Rail about Korea and Japan. I'm not sure if there are others where it's like a deep dive on them as the topic though. You'd have to do keyword searches for "Korea" "Japan" "Park Chung-Hee" "Asanuma" "Borzoi" etc on search engines, the TRS search bar etc to try to find bits and pieces I guess.

[–]Mr_Tee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks, these is what I found.

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discuss a Laotian Stop-Motion film by the title of Jin-Roh. You might know it better as the Right Wing Death Squads movie. Strap in for a long chat about Japan, soldiers, war, PTSD, and yes, even anime. https://therightstuff.biz/2018/01/30/the-poz-button-41-jin-roh/

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the politics of Japan's Shinzō Abe prostrating himself before globalists, the famous incident with the samurai sword https://therightstuff.biz/2019/10/01/strike-mike-episode-80-impossibru-ideology/

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Borzoi and Adam Smith breakdown brotherhood, Korean culture, and lost national childhood in the era of Park Chung Hee https://therightstuff.biz/2020/03/02/the-poz-button-97-silmido/

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

A bunch of dead Germans.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Which dead Germans are fascism experts?

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

All of them.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you mean the NSDAP? Or people like Johann Gottlieb Fichte?

[–]Fonched 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do any of these experts have any good counters to Umberto Eco?

[–]8thmonitor[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Umberto Eco does not understand or know the meaning of fascism. I think A. James Gregor's work is the best counter.

This is a quick debunk. https://fascio.substack.com/p/refuting-umberto-ecos-ur-fascism